Russia and China want to become world leaders in tech, security, and AI

midian182

Posts: 8,791   +110
Staff member
What just happened? Russian President Vladimir Putin and China leader Xi Jinping have announced they intend to make their respective countries world leaders in IT, cybersecurity, and artificial intelligence, which may be a difficult goal to achieve given the number of tech-related sanctions and export controls placed on both nations.

Jinping visited Moscow for three days this week for talks with his Russian counterpart. It led to a number of agreements in different areas, listed in a document titled, 'Joint Statement between the People's Republic of China and the Russian Federation on Deepening the Comprehensive Strategic Partnership of Coordination in the New Era.'

The document is filled with the sort of language one would expect from the two leaders, including the lambasting of "the hypocritical narrative of so-called 'democracy against authoritarianism.'" There are also sections relating to the nations' technology ambitions.

The presidents agreed to form new models of cooperation in industries such as artificial intelligence, Internet of Things, 5G, digital economy, and low-carbon economy. "Technological sovereignty is the key to sustainability. We propose further improving strategic partnerships in specific industries. By combining our wealth of research capacity and industrial capabilities, Russia and China can become world leaders in information technology, cyber security, and artificial intelligence," it reads.

It's difficult to imagine either nation becoming world leaders in these fields, given their limited ability to use overseas tech. Russia, of course, has been subject to numerous sanctions since it invaded Ukraine over one year ago; IBM, Nvidia, Intel, and many others have stopped selling their products in the country.

Russia previously made the bold claim that it would be investing in domestic chip development, manufacturing, and personnel training, with the intention of producing chips using a 28nm node by 2030. Presently, Russia's inability to source reliable semiconductors has forced it to use components taken from dishwashers and refrigerators in its tanks.

Sanctions against Russia saw it turn to the Chinese gray market for its semiconductor imports. Unfortunately for Putin, almost half of them are defective.

China's chipmaking-tool sanctions are well documented. Restrictions introduced in October are designed to cap the country's logic chips at the 14-nanometre node, DRAM at 18nm, and 3D NAND flash at 128 layers. The US says this will prevent China from developing semiconductors for military applications, including supercomputers, nuclear weapons modeling, and hypersonic weapons.

Chinese companies had been filling warehouses with chipmaking equipment in preparation for more restrictions from the Netherlands, which arrived early this month.

Despite the restrictions, a recent think tank report claimed that China leads the US in the research of 37 out of 44 critical technologies.

Elsewhere, the Russia-China document states that "Both sides support the United Nations Ad Hoc Committee to develop a comprehensive international convention against the use of information and communication technologies for criminal purposes." Again, this seems a bit surprising, given that the majority of state-sponsored hackers originate from these two countries.

In related news, the Kremlin earlier this week told officials involved in Putin's 2024 re-election campaign to get rid of their iPhones as a safety precaution against western agencies. Alternatively, they could give the handsets to "the kids." It seems the Kremlin believes Cupertino's phones are easier to hack and more susceptible to espionage by western spies than other smartphones.

Permalink to story.

 

KofeViR

Posts: 295   +135
No wonder we are pulling chip manufacturing "home" and to EU instead of Asia. Too unreliable. Intel is building several facilities all over the world right now. Superfactories. They will be back as market leaders by 2025-2026.

Apple also wanted TSMC to make a facility in US, or they would leave them. Apple is the reason TSMC is where they are today. Without Apple money, they would be on GloFo level or close.

When Intel gets to 20A or 18A I bet Apple will consider moving to Intel instead.
 
Last edited:

kira setsu

Posts: 557   +572
It may be big talk but they're still big dogs even with the sanctions.

and considering the good ole U.S. can barely teach its kids and were one random looney af politician away from a disaster, we shouldnt be bragging either.
 

yRaz

Posts: 5,299   +7,150
No wonder we are pulling chip manufacturing "home" and to EU instead of Asia. Too unreliable. Intel is building several facilities all over the world right now. Superfactories. They will be back as market leaders by 2025-2026.

Apple also wanted TSMC to make a facility in US, or they would leave them. Apple is the reason TSMC is where they are today. Without Apple money, they would be on GloFo level or close.

When Intel gets to 20A or 18A I bet Apple will consider moving to Intel instead.
TSMC is moving major operations to Arizona, the construction project has already started and should be completed in about 5 years. Intel hasn't even started their Ohio plant yet. To my knowledge, they haven't even signed an conracts yet. They're trying to get more tax money to fund their project. I wish they'd hurry up because these are 6-8 year long projects. I think the only way we can truly avoid a war is if we move chip manufacturing out of the east before that happens. Computer chips are the new oil.
 

netman

Posts: 894   +413
Mark your calendar...! And guess who made China and Russia to go on this path...? US of A...!

So when they become self sufficient. the fault is on uncle Sam...!
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 1,582   +1,137
China has that ability - Russia not so much - exacerbated by brain drain and as mentioned sanctions .
Russia GDP is not that large - under the socialist model - if Russia had advanced it's scientists more , and not a huge costly military complex - it would be better off.
Remember Stalin purges - they went after scientists/academics he didn't like as well- that favouritism continues in the 60s and 70s etc- USSR had a nascent computer industry competing with the USA - it had a chance - because remember the world only needed 5 computers ( can't remember exact quote )

So to create a fertile ground with corruption is a normal way of grafting.
No one believes in the Egyption gods , the god/emperors anymore - no it's just a gravy train to get your share- or sell off secrets
 

GoldenGoat

Posts: 152   +213
You can't be a leader in tech while depending on someone else's tech. That pretty much goes against the definition of leading in tech.
 

KofeViR

Posts: 295   +135
TSMC is moving major operations to Arizona, the construction project has already started and should be completed in about 5 years. Intel hasn't even started their Ohio plant yet. To my knowledge, they haven't even signed an conracts yet. They're trying to get more tax money to fund their project. I wish they'd hurry up because these are 6-8 year long projects. I think the only way we can truly avoid a war is if we move chip manufacturing out of the east before that happens. Computer chips are the new oil.
It def won't take Intel 6-8 years, they are already building several big fabs right now (outside of Asia) -> It does not have to be in US, just outside Asia. Europe = 100% risk free operation. Might even be less risky than US...
 

yRaz

Posts: 5,299   +7,150
It def won't take Intel 6-8 years, they are already building several big fabs right now (outside of Asia) -> It does not have to be in US, just outside Asia. Europe = 100% risk free operation. Might even be less risky than US...
These projects take far longer than one would expect, I've worked on several similar projects around the US already. Some can be made partially operational while parts of the factory are still under construction, these cannot. But from breaking ground to when the first employee sits down at their desk, 6-8 years is about how long these facilities take to build.
 

KofeViR

Posts: 295   +135
These projects take far longer than one would expect, I've worked on several similar projects around the US already. Some can be made partially operational while parts of the factory are still under construction, these cannot. But from breaking ground to when the first employee sits down at their desk, 6-8 years is about how long these facilities take to build.
Production start for Fab 52 + 62 (Intel 20A node both) is 2024, maybe late 2023

Intel 20A should be comparable to TSMC 2-3nm

There's several other fabs starting production soon, one of them is Fab 34 in Ireland with Intel 4 aka 7nm node

Ohio in 2025 with 20A + 18A (20+ billion megafactory)
 

liljom

Posts: 14   +19
Everybody wants something 🤷🏻‍♂️
I want world peace, and being able to do all my hobbies and fun activities with just 20 hours of work a week
 

Uncle Al

Posts: 9,569   +8,868
Want, want, want ...... unfortunately they will have a hard time breaking into that arena as long as they have to depend upon stolen technology. In fact the US needs to improve it's ways and means for feeding corrupted and unworkable technology to both of them .....
 

Puckmanoz

Posts: 28   +34
I think people need to stop looking at Chinese soft propaganda. They really are only good as stealing intellectual property and mass producing it.they are terrible at inventing , mostly due to how restrictive/ implosive their government is. there is a reason Chinese people don’t invest and buy housing/ try to get their capital outside the country asap.

Most of what chi ping says, is simply to save face or make its government look good.