Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs. Core i9-12900K in 40 Games

Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
Again... try to READ my post... and maybe read my previous ones... I'm AGREEING with you on Alder Lake... there's no comparison there...

But if you are an EXISTING AMD 1000/2000 series owner - and you have a COMPATIBLE motherboard - and you MUST upgrade... then the 5900X is the way to go...

I understand this is a small % of people... which is why I feel the 5800X3D makes even less sense... since the % of people in the previous situation who would choose to spend $50 more for slightly better gaming performance than the 5900X at the cost of the extra cores for productivity should be astronomically small...
If you had the NEED for a new CPU then you would have upgraded 2-3 years ago when Ryzen 3000/5000 launched, because Ryzen 1000 and 2000 series are slow as hell today. Especially for gaming.

If you are a gamer and wants to stay on the dead AM4 platform for a few more years then 5800X3D is superior to 5900X, it's not even close.

ONLY GAMERS should buy 5800X3D regardless, it has worse application perf than 5800X but destroys even 5950X in gaming.

NO GAMERS need more than 8 cores anyway.

If you care about GAMING _and_ PRODUCTIVITY, Alder Lake is the way to go now; Or wait a few months for Ryzen 7000 or Raptor Lake...
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,335   +4,981
If you had the NEED for a new CPU then you would have upgraded 2 years ago when Ryzen 5000 launched, because Ryzen 1000 and 2000 series are slow as hell today.

If you are a gamer and wants to stay on dead AM4 platform for a few more years then 5800X3D is superior to 5900X

ONLY GAMERS should buy 5800X3D regardless, it has worse application perf than 5800X but destroys even 5950X in gaming

NO GAMERS need more than 8 cores anyway
Plenty of people DIDN'T upgrade 2 years ago... those are the people I'm talking about... and again, this upgrade really isn't for that many people...

And I think you need to find a better word than "Destroy".... no 5000 series AMD or 12000 series Intel destroys or gets destroyed in gaming...

If you play just about any AAA title at 1440p or 4k, the performance difference between ANY of those CPUs will be fairly minimal... they are almost all GPU bound.

A SMART PC builder is only spending top-dollar on their CPU if they want productivity... if you are a gamer, you are spending your extra money on your GPU.
 

Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
Plenty of people DIDN'T upgrade 2 years ago... those are the people I'm talking about... and again, this upgrade really isn't for that many people...

And I think you need to find a better word than "Destroy".... no 5000 series AMD or 12000 series Intel destroys or gets destroyed in gaming...

If you play just about any AAA title at 1440p or 4k, the performance difference between ANY of those CPUs will be fairly minimal... they are almost all GPU bound.

A SMART PC builder is only spending top-dollar on their CPU if they want productivity... if you are a gamer, you are spending your extra money on your GPU.

Only casual gamers are GPU bound. No competitive gamers play at 4K. It's 1080p or 1440p and CPU makes a huge difference so does memory speed and timings.

Go watch Alder Lake vs Zen 3 (not 5800X3D) and you will see that Zen 3 gets desotroyed in many games when CPU bound. Almost double fps.

I am a high refresh rate / low persistance gamer aiming for 100+ fps, pref 200 fps using 1440p/240Hz/IPS.

I don't watch new movies on a black and white CRT TV either...

60 fps is the new 30 fps
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,335   +4,981
Only casual gamers are GPU bound. No competitive gamers play at 4K. It's 1080p or 1440p and CPU makes a huge difference so does memory speed and timings.

Go watch Alder Lake vs Zen 3 (not 5800X3D) and you will see that Zen 3 gets desotroyed in many games when CPU bound. Almost double fps.

I am a high refresh rate / low persistance gamer aiming for 100+ fps, pref 200 fps using 1440p/240Hz/IPS.

I don't watch new movies on a black and white CRT TV either...

60 fps is the new 30 fps
You are NOT the typical user... none of this applies to you :)
 

maroon1

Posts: 134   +147
Cities Skylines the most demanding in the test, and 12900K wins in this game

The other games are pointless because fps is too high.

Valorant runs over 500+ fps on both CPU at 4K....So it does not matter who runs better in such game that already have extremely high fps. I only care about demanding games

I wish if you guys test only demanding games. Cyberpunk 2077 did get included in this review tested even though is very popular and one of the most demanding game

You also did test it int he first 5800X3D review. So why you did not include it here ?? Are you deliberately trying to make 5800X3D look better by not including it ??


Should have included Microsoft Flight Simulator in this as well, the AMD chip gives quite a big boost in that with the extra cache.

I rather see better game like Cyberpunk 2077
 

mxfalcon54

Posts: 12   +8
Again... try to READ my post... and maybe read my previous ones... I'm AGREEING with you on Alder Lake... there's no comparison there...

But if you are an EXISTING AMD 1000/2000 series owner - and you have a COMPATIBLE motherboard - and you MUST upgrade... then the 5900X is the way to go...

I understand this is a small % of people... which is why I feel the 5800X3D makes even less sense... since the % of people in the previous situation who would choose to spend $50 more for slightly better gaming performance than the 5900X at the cost of the extra cores for productivity should be astronomically small...

Spending $450 to upgrade a 5000 series chip - especially the 5800X - would be just plain dumb...
Honestly this still depends on a persons budget. The 5900x is what $450+? If theyre coming from like a 2600/3600 and wanting a upgrade they can feel but not spend a ton on an outdated platform, I'd argue that the 5700x is the way to go.
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,523   +5,380
Wrong, tons of 300 and 400 series boards don't support 5000 series.

Even some expensive boards don't allow this.
This is actually untrue now. Just about every 300 and 400 series motherboard now supports 5000 series chips because it helps them sell old stock that is still sitting new, in box, on shelves. There is a significant financial incentive for motherboard makers to support 5000 series chips on older motherboards. And you can boot with a 5000 series chip on a motherboard without a supported bios, it just runs like crap until you flash the bios.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,335   +4,981
Honestly this still depends on a persons budget. The 5900x is what $450+? If theyre coming from like a 2600/3600 and wanting a upgrade they can feel but not spend a ton on an outdated platform, I'd argue that the 5700x is the way to go.
Actually... the 5900X is now selling for $395.... and the 5800X3D will cost $450... so if you MUST upgrade, the 5900X is the way to go. Obviously, if you don't have the cash, then the 5700 or even 5600 will also work.... But there is no scenario where the 5800X3D makes sense.
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,523   +5,380
Actually... the 5900X is now selling for $395.... and the 5800X3D will cost $450... so if you MUST upgrade, the 5900X is the way to go. Obviously, if you don't have the cash, then the 5700 or even 5600 will also work.... But there is no scenario where the 5800X3D makes sense.
I disagree, but that's because I have multiple PCs. I have 2 servers in my house and use hypervisors to allocate resources on them. More cores for my servers = more better. On my "main" rig, which is really used for gaming, I'd happily take the 5800X3D. Will this rig get moved into the server room on my next build? probably, but that will likely be a gaming rig, too.

the 5800x3D is such a unique product that this is one case where someone might want to take a step back and see which is better for what they're doing. Both are fantastic processors, but 4 less cores for faster gaming performance? I do lots of CAD but I'm heavily leaning towards the 5800X3D.
 
I won't for sure. If you want the best of both worlds, 12700K exists, it will beat 5900X in productivity and perform on par with 5800X3D in gaming, especially after OC to 5+ GHz all-core
Lmfao I already have proof that if you set up a 5900x on a very nice proven motherboard that is a good fit like mine it's on par faster than what I have seen out of the 12900k and the 5800x3d I got benches to prove it. I also get well over 700 fps in csgo. Now some people do not know how to set up systems for the processor and ram. I love how fast and how the bios in auto state clocks my chip right up to 5 ghz and single cpu thread in cpuz bench shows that I hit 685 and the multi thread is well above 10000. Called optimized and ready to rock. 5900x is a great chip for gaming period. There is no need for the 5800x3d in my case. In this case I even have pbo off.
 

Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
Lmfao I already have proof that if you set up a 5900x on a very nice proven motherboard that is a good fit like mine it's on par faster than what I have seen out of the 12900k and the 5800x3d I got benches to prove it. I also get well over 700 fps in csgo. Now some people do not know how to set up systems for the processor and ram. I love how fast and how the bios in auto state clocks my chip right up to 5 ghz and single cpu thread in cpuz bench shows that I hit 685 and the multi thread is well above 10000. Called optimized and ready to rock. 5900x is a great chip for gaming period. There is no need for the 5800x3d in my case. In this case I even have pbo off.
Your 5900X is nowhere near 5800X3D or Alder Lake in gaming.

5800X3D is priced higher than 5900X for a reason.

Even i5-12600K beats 5900X in gaming... An i5-12400 can match 5900X 🤣
 
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Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
This is actually untrue now. Just about every 300 and 400 series motherboard now supports 5000 series chips because it helps them sell old stock that is still sitting new, in box, on shelves. There is a significant financial incentive for motherboard makers to support 5000 series chips on older motherboards. And you can boot with a 5000 series chip on a motherboard without a supported bios, it just runs like crap until you flash the bios.
Wrong go check Asus ROG Crosshair X370 supported CPU list; Zero 5000 models and theres many more examples
 

Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
Yeah several people bricked their board with those

Good luck flashing unofficial firmwares, especially on high-end boards will 5+ years of warrenty 🤣 puf gone.

Your link just confirmed what I am saying - AMD and several board manufacturers blocked official support...

How many will flash a unofficial firmware on their old motherboard to insert a new chip, and risk bricking the board and needing a new platform anyway :joy:

Stop being foolish... 1 out of 1000 might do it

AS I SAID, most old AM4 boards won't allow using a 5000 series chip... thank you for proof - SUPPORT is BLOCKED by AMD/Manufacturer on tons of AM4 boards..
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,523   +5,380
Yeah several people bricked their board with those

Good luck flashing unofficial firmwares, especially on high-end boards will 5+ years of warrenty 🤣 puf gone.

Your link just confirmed what I am saying - AMD and several board manufacturers blocked official support...
You can't brick your board, it has ROM with the original bios on it. And warranties are a joke, I never trust a warranty. If I do something that voids it I'll tell them in an email and more often than not, they'll accept it. But for the amount of times that I've had legitimate warranty claims denied for outright false claims by the manufacture is countless. I stick to brands that if I'm honest with them they'll honor the warranty even if I'm at fault.

And so what if they blocked official support? I'm old enough that I remember overclocking CPUs by bridging traces with a pencil.

EDIT:
out of curiosity I decided to do a little more digging. The 5000 series isn't "officially" supported but support has been added in. Essentially, you can use a 5000 series chip on basically an 300 series mobo with a bios update. You can identify these bios' because in the patch note they do not say "rizen 5000 series supported" they say "no Bristol Ridge processor support". This is because the bios isn't large enough to support Pre-Ryzen processors AND all new ryzen CPUs.

Asus seems to be the only one who outright tried to BLOCK Ryzen 5000 support. BUT THERE IS A TWIST!!!!!!


EDIT 2:
I just thought of this a little while ago, id like to point out that there are so many people trying to use ryzen 5000 series CPUs on 300 series motherboards that there are actually groups online that test bios' on unsupported motherboards.
 
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humbug

Posts: 12   +11
How did Steve Walton get to +1% 1080P > 5800X3D, I was looking at it and thinking that can't be right, the 5800X3D seemed to be getting consistently bigger wins vs the 12900K, IE more than 1%, consistently.

So I did some maths.

The average frame rates at 1080P

5800X3D:
668 + 322 + 172 + 255 + 55 + 204 + 266 + 161 + 577 + 314 + 411 + 185 + 145 + 265 + 240 = 4240

12900K:
582 + 291 + 201 + 206 + 58 + 214 + 255 + 150 + 558 + 304 + 398 + 189 + 144 + 232 + 212 = 3994

4240 / 3994 = 1.061 That's 6%, not 1%.
 

bviktor

Posts: 903   +1,316
Can't stress enough that the Ryzen does this while consuming half the watts. You must be an absolute clown to go for the Intel instead.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,335   +4,981
Can't stress enough that the Ryzen does this while consuming half the watts. You must be an absolute clown to go for the Intel instead.
Most people couldn't give a sh!t about power consumption in a desktop... They buy what performs best or what performs best for their budget.... which, as of now, is Intel...
 
Dear HW Unboxed/Techspot,

I have wondered how good more L3 cache actually is in simulation type games. You did test Factorio which saw great gains. In theory, L3 should help a lot in many types of "simulation" games with lots of entities that can produce cache misses. Seeing the Skylines results makes me doubt that though.
A test series with simulation type games to see how much the L3 cache helps would be really great! Factorio, Dwarf Fortress, Supreme Commander, Stellaris, Rimworld, Heros Hour, Distant Worlds 2 all tend to slow down if you crank up the entities. Seeing how much the extra L3 helps here would be very interesting and original content.
Also: How much does the L3 hurt ram scaling?

Regards,
Chief
 

theruck

Posts: 548   +345
That AMD dominance did not take much long. as expected. thank you AMD you did a good job with getting Intel back to reality
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,335   +4,981
That AMD dominance did not take much long. as expected. thank you AMD you did a good job with getting Intel back to reality
AMD was dominating… but since alder lake, Intel is back in the driver’s seat… this CPU changes nothing. Let’s see what AMD’s next architecture brings to the table though.
 

yannus

Posts: 69   +62
Most people couldn't give a sh!t about power consumption in a desktop... They buy what performs best or what performs best for their budget.... which, as of now, is Intel...
There are people who care about power consumption for many reasons : PSU stress and specs, mother board stress, CPU stress, system temps.
 

loki1944

Posts: 575   +410
For gaming? Not at all. 5800X3D destroys 5900X. So does 12700K. Even 12600K.

Yeah I am an Intel fanboy, using a 5800X @ 4.7 + 3080 Ti in my main rig :joy: :joy:

I would buy 12700K for sure over any AMD chip if I had to build a new system right now. It has better all-round performance than 5800X3D and still beats or performs on par with 5900X in applications, yet 12700K has much better gaming performance, especially when you jack up clockspeed to 5+ GHz on all cores which is easy.

However I am upgrading in 2023+ when Ryzen 8000 and Meteor Lake are ready and DDR5 have matured (price, clockspeed and timings)

I could not care less about AM4 at this point, it is a dead platform. AMD launches AM5 in a few months + Ryzen 7000 @ 5nm TSMC + PCIe 5.0.

Would be pointless to jump on 5800X3D for a few percent gaming performance while my application performance goes down. I need good all-round performance not just gaming or application perf.

Hard Reset is the biggest AMD fanboy you will ever see. Never compare me to him. I have owned and probably owns more AMD chips than he ever will.

Right now I have 4 AMD chips in my house; PS4 Pro, PS5, NAS (Ryzen 2700 undervolted and underclocked) and 5800X in main rig.

If you can't see that Intel is back then YOU are the fanboy. Or simply go read Techspots recent top 5 CPU article; https://www.techspot.com/bestof/cpu/

AMD better wake up and adjust their pricing accordingly.

This is especially true for the GPU market, which AMD loses fast right now. They are releasing gimped cards (PCIe x8 limitation) uisng 64-128 bit busses... Their lower end and mid-end stuff is garbage, and this is AMDs prime GPU segment. Intel will eat them alive when Arc launches soon, if they don't change this.
If you're talking GPU bound resolutions like 1440/3440; even the 2008 i7 920 maintains playable FPS in the 50-70FPS range average @3440 with a 1080ti.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,335   +4,981
There are people who care about power consumption for many reasons : PSU stress and specs, mother board stress, CPU stress, system temps.
There are people who care about all sorts of things.... but they’re outliers... there’s a reason Nvidia gets away with selling 3090s...