Tesla increases the prices of its vehicles by up to $6,000

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 436   +336
Maybe he is. The lubricants in my Focus EV are all synthetic. Probably won't be too long until no petroleum is needed at all.

Here is something for you all to write to Fox "News" about.

Oils from animal fat, trees and seeds doesn't sound very synthetic.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,721   +2,950
TechSpot Elite
Oils from animal fat, trees and seeds doesn't sound very synthetic.
Very true, but I'm looking more at silicone lubes. That's what at a lot of EVs use, including the Focus. Truth is, if all vehicles were lubed with petroleum products I really wouldn't care. Like I said before, what I'm against is burning fossil fuels. That is a filthy habit we have.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 7,958   +7,001
So you're telling us EV's don't require lubricants eh. 🤔
Electric motors have sealed bearings that are designed to last the life of the motor. Depending on where you live, your EV could succumb to rust before the motors, including their sealed, permanently lubricated bearings, wear out. The lubricant requirements of EVs are substantially less than ICEVs. One thing for sure you will not have is an "oil change" every 5,000 miles.

Whether any particular EV will require lubricants will depend on how it was designed, but in any event, the requirements are far less than any ICEV.

If you are interested, here is a comparison of ownership costs in the first 100,000 miles. https://insideevs.com/news/317307/ev-vs-ice-maintenance-the-first-100000-miles/ It's an EV site, and may be biased, however, even organizations like Consumer Reports conclude maintenance costs, overall, are far less than ICEV - and I am sure the substantial reduction in lubricant needs contribute to that.
Cows die in heatwave during the summer. Cows freeze to death in winter. Must be global warming.
The thing that makes this unusual is the number of cow deaths.
Here is something else that's very interesting.
And something more these righties can lie through their teeth about, or do the Winnie the Pooh thing above at least. It just comes so easy and natural for them.


Mass produced Solid State battery as soon as 2024!

You righties, let me help you get started:

3d5wlx.gif
New battery tech on the horizon is yet another thing the ICErs can conveniently ignore.

While the aluminum batteries that I linked are not currently running a pilot manufacturing program for EVs, they are making button and "pack" batteries, pack batteries being for tablets and cell phones. The interesting thing about that is that they are drop-in replacements for the equivalent lithium batteries. They plan on using what they learn in that pilot program to then apply that to manufacturing batteries for EVs. Interestingly enough, the electrolyte in the aluminum batteries is urea. 🤔
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,721   +2,950
TechSpot Elite

wiyosaya

Posts: 7,958   +7,001
Hydrogen tech is the future, it's the best form of energy storage from renewables.
If we ignore all the problems with it like producing the hydrogen in the first place and storing it in packages where it is dense enough to allow EVs to run a substantial number of miles before needing refueling.

That's not to say that those problems are not being worked on and that the work should not continue.
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 7,958   +7,001
Here is something that is not a surprise or anything too new, but the certain ones here won't like it.

Yes, and in some places in the US and elsewhere, the body will likely rust out before the battery needs replacing.

I'll be optimistic and say that when those aluminum batteries reach the EV market, expect them to last substantially longer. Some here, will want to hear that even less. ;)
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 436   +336
Electric motors have sealed bearings that are designed to last the life of the motor. Depending on where you live, your EV could succumb to rust before the motors, including their sealed, permanently lubricated bearings, wear out. The lubricant requirements of EVs are substantially less than ICEVs. One thing for sure you will not have is an "oil change" every 5,000 miles.

Whether any particular EV will require lubricants will depend on how it was designed, but in any event, the requirements are far less than any ICEV.

If you are interested, here is a comparison of ownership costs in the first 100,000 miles. https://insideevs.com/news/317307/ev-vs-ice-maintenance-the-first-100000-miles/ It's an EV site, and may be biased, however, even organizations like Consumer Reports conclude maintenance costs, overall, are far less than ICEV - and I am sure the substantial reduction in lubricant needs contribute to that.

The thing that makes this unusual is the number of cow deaths.

New battery tech on the horizon is yet another thing the ICErs can conveniently ignore.

While the aluminum batteries that I linked are not currently running a pilot manufacturing program for EVs, they are making button and "pack" batteries, pack batteries being for tablets and cell phones. The interesting thing about that is that they are drop-in replacements for the equivalent lithium batteries. They plan on using what they learn in that pilot program to then apply that to manufacturing batteries for EVs. Interestingly enough, the electrolyte in the aluminum batteries is urea. 🤔
Last time I checked EV's have axles with wheels attached to them along with brakes attached to the wheels.
 

p51d007

Posts: 3,301   +2,896
And that trope Lithium Batteries bad, ICEs good 🥱 while conveniently ignoring all the other sources of pollution in the ICE chain. Refining, transportation to market quarts and quarts of lubricants, grease - it all generates pollution but ICErs seem to forget that it is all there nonetheless and pretend they have the high-road. :rolleyes:

Lithium batteries are on their way out. That is what progress is all about. In case you are wondering how progress works - You start out with an idea, and continue to make progress on it - not throw your hands up in the air and say, Gee, this first iteration is not what we want. Let's just give up. I could see where ICErs would do that since ICE vehicles are nearly at the end of their life.

As an example of only one avenue of research and development - https://cleantechnica.com/2021/05/1...tery-promises-60x-increase-in-charging-speed/
ICErs feel free to trash it. I prefer to put my faith in countless programs like this, and human ingenuity, that are aimed at making things better rather than throwing my hands up and saying, "Its no good. You can't do that. Might as well stop right now."
Fine, come up with something better, but the problem is the greenie nut jobs want oil to STOP now. Segway into EV's. I have no problem. Let both EV's and ICE vehicle live side by side, until the EV's catch up with the ICE vehicles. Horses were not replaced over night. Even in the 30's, 40's a lot of rural areas still used horses. The biggest problem, aside from price and availability of the batteries, is what it takes to recharge them. Say all ICE vehicles are gone. Now go on a trip in your vehicle and enjoy staying HOURS to recharge your EV. Not to mention how our transportation sector (big trucks) that haul pretty much everything we consume have to wait hours to recharge those monsters. I say let BOTH live side by side until EV's are as practical and reliable as ICE vehicles. It will allow time for the infrastructure to be built up to support it.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,721   +2,950
TechSpot Elite
How about YOU get educated!

I'm going to help you soon on this subject, again.
In the meantime, if you don't post what you have already been told about this subject, I'm going to make fun of you when I tell you, or anyone else tells you. :joy:

Ok, ok. But I know for a fact that a lot of folks are tired of your (as in the AV anti-truthers) broken record act, stay tuned.

About the only good thing about you folks is that for the first time you righties are "concerned" about the environment. I wonder if there is a connection.

And thanks for the link, again. The oil industries very own one track mind.
I remember them back in the late 90s claiming that oil reserves were not formed by animal and plant life. I think they tried it for about 15 minutes, but they tried it.
 
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Endymio

Posts: 1,815   +1,878
There's an article in the Wall Street Journal today that Tesla is tops in driver-assist accidents.
Tesla has more level-2 autonomous driver-assist vehicles than any other automaker as well. Tesla is also the only automaker that reports 100% of such accidents. From the NHTSA itself:

Tesla’s crash number may be high because it uses telematics to monitor all vehicles and receive real-time crash reports. Other automakers don’t have such capability, so their reports may come slower or crashes may not be reported at all, NHTSA said...
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,721   +2,950
TechSpot Elite
Not to mention the environmental impact of what it takes to mine the Lithium for the batteries, reuse/disposal versus drilling for oil, producing fuel.
This again. You really want to keep that up?
You know you are wrong, and you have been educated on why.

Well I told you. So here is the same article you have ignored at least a few times before.


Remember to forget this for the next time you want to ignore the facts.
 

Endymio

Posts: 1,815   +1,878
You know you are wrong, and you have been educated on why.

Well I told you. So here is the same article you have ignored at least a few times before.
He may ignore it, but I won't. The article's content makes his point that battery recycling is a real issue:

A DEAD BATTERY DILEMMA
With millions of electric vehicles set to hit the road, scientists are seeking better battery recycling methods...Cut too deep into a [battery], or in the wrong place, and it can short-circuit, combust, and release toxic fumes. That's just one of the many problems confronting researchers, who are trying to tackle an emerging problem: how to recycle the millions of electric vehicle (EV) batteries that manufacturers expect to produce over the next few decades. Current EV batteries "are really not designed to be recycled...

"People are starting to realize this is an issue," Thompson says...


Hydrometallurgy [recycling] can extract materials not easily obtained through burning, but it can involve chemicals that pose health risks...the process of [recycling] produces extensive waste and emit greenhouse gases, studies have found. And the business model can be shaky...

To realize direct recycling, batterymakers, recyclers, and researchers need to sort out a host of issues...One solvent that recyclers use to dissolve cathode binders is so toxic that the European Union has introduced restrictions on its use, and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency determined last year that it poses an "unreasonable risk" to workers....

Recycling researchers, meanwhile, say effective battery recycling will require more than just technological advances. There's little time to waste, Abbott says. "What you don't want is 10 years' worth of production of a cell that is absolutely impossible to pull apart," he says. ...
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,721   +2,950
TechSpot Elite
He may ignore it, but I won't. The article's content makes his point that battery recycling is a real issue:

A DEAD BATTERY DILEMMA
With millions of electric vehicles set to hit the road, scientists are seeking better battery recycling methods...Cut too deep into a [battery], or in the wrong place, and it can short-circuit, combust, and release toxic fumes. That's just one of the many problems confronting researchers, who are trying to tackle an emerging problem: how to recycle the millions of electric vehicle (EV) batteries that manufacturers expect to produce over the next few decades. Current EV batteries "are really not designed to be recycled...

"People are starting to realize this is an issue," Thompson says...


Hydrometallurgy [recycling] can extract materials not easily obtained through burning, but it can involve chemicals that pose health risks...the process of [recycling] produces extensive waste and emit greenhouse gases, studies have found. And the business model can be shaky...

To realize direct recycling, batterymakers, recyclers, and researchers need to sort out a host of issues...One solvent that recyclers use to dissolve cathode binders is so toxic that the European Union has introduced restrictions on its use, and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency determined last year that it poses an "unreasonable risk" to workers....

Recycling researchers, meanwhile, say effective battery recycling will require more than just technological advances. There's little time to waste, Abbott says. "What you don't want is 10 years' worth of production of a cell that is absolutely impossible to pull apart," he says. ...
I have never posted that as a total argument for my position. I always post it as both sides explained equally. Kind of an FYI for all.

If you need any help, and you do, your concern is, again, discussed below.
And this won't cover the fact that most EV batteries are repurposed. In my case, I used some old EV batteries for a power wall I built for my house.



As a general guide:

It's still a new industry, of course. With EV batteries lasting so long and repurposing after the life of the battery in a vehicle is over, it hasn't been an immediate need.

And here is where I got started with buying the EV batteries for my house:


Some of those batteries are for direct replacement such as this one:


All I would ask of the right is that they quit pretending the EV batteries are being taken and dumped in a ditch in the dead of night. Another of the right's unsustainable fantasies.
 
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Endymio

Posts: 1,815   +1,878
With [batteries] repurposing after the life of the battery in a vehicle is over, it hasn't been an immediate need....And here is where I got started with buying the EV batteries for my house
Come now, such an obvious red herring is beneath you. A repurposed battery still continues to degrade; it only delays the problem, which ultimately becomes worse. When millions of batteries in people's basements wear out entirely, do you think all those individuals will pay a huge fee to properly dispose of them?

URL: Europes-largest-electric-vehicle-battery-recycling-plant-begins-operations,,,
You should read the fine print on those articles. Europe's largest battery recycling plant can only process 25,000 batteries per year (Europe has 6 million EVs at present, and is looking to increase that to 60 million by 2030). But worse -- this "recycling" plant isn't even recycling the heart of the battery yet: the environmentally dangerous portions:

Black mass [is] a powder containing metals of nickel, manganese, cobalt and lithium. Recycling black mass into purified, battery-grade material requires a hydrometallurgical treatment..Moving forward, black mass from Hydrovolt will be delivered to Northvolt’s recycling group Revolt, which is constructing one of the largest battery recycling plants in the world ...Set to enter operations in 2023...

The AAAS article you previously posted details the high cost of the hydrometallurgical recycling, along with the toxic chemicals and greenhouse gases it generates.
 
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scavengerspc

Posts: 2,721   +2,950
TechSpot Elite
A repurposed battery still continues to degrade
Surprisingly slow if properly maintained. Batteries in my house charge to 85% and then charging stops until 75%. Which takes months. And twice a year I set the system to cut outside power until the batteries run down to 15%. Then outside power is restored and charges to 85% again. Also, if\when an individual cell in a battery goes bad I can replace it with a new or used one. It's all quite cool actually.

Come now, such an obvious red herring is beneath you.
Good sir, nothing is beneath me! :joy:

You should read the fine print on those articles. Europe's largest battery recycling plant can only process 25,000 batteries per year (Europe has 6 million EVs at present, and is looking to increase that to 60 million by 2030). But worse -- this "recycling" plant isn't even recycling the heart of the battery yet: the environmentally dangerous portions:
If you still aren't getting my message, than I apologize. I never have or would claim it's perfect. What I am saying is that measures are being taken and will improve as necessary, just like other recycling has.

Unrelated PSA!
Take this game please.

 
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Avro Arrow

Posts: 2,608   +3,187
TechSpot Elite
(y) (Y)

95% coal? That is hilarious!
Welcome to 1995!
Not to mention that Erickson Plant Lansing is closing by 2023!

Well on the bright side it's charging something that will not add anything else to the air.
I'm pretty sure that power generation wasn't 95% coal even in 1995. I do know that Canada has been primarily hydroelectric since the 1970s, but I don't think that even the Americans know what they're doing down there. :laughing: