The ugly side of Nvidia: A rollercoaster ride that shows when Big Tech doesn't get it

Endymio

Posts: 1,334   +1,219
You who decided to "quote" me made a/b not receiving a review sample (which is essentially a free GPU) are as toxic as NVIDIA b/c you want to prop up this entitlement attitude as if everyone owes you something or you expect things to be handed out. I don't care who was right or wrong, so if you don't like NVIDIA's sentiment then you're welcome to take Gamers Nexus' approach and buy it yourself...
Yes, it's a combination of the entitlement attitude, coupled with the usual imbecilic "all corporations are greedy and evil" presumption of guilt. Don't ask them to formulate a sensible argument to support their position; you'll just be hit by a barrage of rotten eggs.
 
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No Longer Human

Posts: 48   +64
A few of you who decided to "quote" me regarding the sarcastic tone I made a/b not receiving a review sample (which is essentially a free GPU) are as toxic as NVIDIA b/c you want to prop up this entitlement attitude as if everyone owes you something or you expect things to be handed out. I don't care who was right or wrong, so if you don't like NVIDIA's sentiment then you're welcome to take Gamers Nexus' approach and buy it yourself or bum it off another one of your tech reviewer friends, but don't get mad at me b/c you can't handle the truth. There are more important pressing issues going on in the world that need no explanation that you should worry a/b than getting all flustered b/c your instant gratification for a GPU hasn't been satisfied.
It's clear that the issues involved in this have escaped your comprehension completely. Sorry can't help you. It literally has nothing to do with getting a free gpu or not.
 

SinEaterr

Posts: 9   +3
What did you expect? Yours true reviews will not go unnoticed. N wasted prepared for that from AMD that it. So now they use troll's like( quantumshill) on this side and many more. Just to make normal people believe "it's good" we'll have funn
 

Rdmetz

Posts: 316   +153
Glad they walked it back. Truly uncalled for. Every player needs to pick the card that's going to play their killer app best. If I was going mainly play Dirt 5 AMD looks better, Control and Cyberpunk (atm) go with Nvidia, etc.

Each reviewer having their own test methodology and conclusion is the best way to have an informed decision.
The problem I have (and many others in his audience, you know the ones the guys referring to) have called Steve out for OBVIOUS bias testing choices that's lean HEAVILY on making ray tracing less important, impactful, and detrimental to AMD.

He specifically tests the game that have the least visual impact as well as bring smds wesker performance in the area to front stage.

He calls its a waste of time and plays it down CONSTANTLY while also mentioning off hand how he's playing watch dogs at home with a 3090 with ray tracing.... Admitting how good it can look (but never using something like it in his general ray tracing testing) he has chosen to be a hypocrite because he wants to keep an certain audience happy but also actually have access to next gen gaming.

He goes as far to test the red devil oc lc with a Massive overclock and brag about is oc whole ONLY testing it against STOCK 3080/3090.

His enitre testing methodology is skewed while he can play victim here he has obviously shown this bias enough that not only myself but enough of his commentors have raised the concern and Nvidia noticed that as well.

Steve used the opportunity to use his peers fear of financial or creative impact to get them behind him (sending Linus only cherry picked clips or benchmark slides) instead of them having watched him for YEARS like many of us who have watched him constantly do his best to spin his biggest audiences views as the best choice.

Hes in it for his benefit (like anyone really) but unlike Steve from GN who will tell his highly AMD leaning audience that they are in fact WRONG sometimes and point out where AMD gets its a## kicked without a second thought.

Steve for HUB on the other hand is happy to placate that same audience and make sure keep them happy is his primary goal.

If this wasn't his goal then his work would more closely resemble the unbiased reviews of someone like GN.

It's not Steves job to decide what is or isn't "better" or "more important" it's his job to test products for what they offer and provide an objective view and information with it ultimately up to you to decide based on the provided information what's most important to you.

When he cherry picks like he does he shapes a view for his audience and therefor isn't being objective at all.

I had an actual conversation with HUB themselves weeks ago about this and their arrogance in replying to my concerns with statements like "huh?" (as if they misheard my WRITTEN words) and basically ignoring what I said.

I told them then I was done with their content and more people would likely start to see it with how blatant they had become with their bias I un-subbed and planned to move on but even quicker than I figured it would it blew up as I predicted.

Steve got his way as he went to the fellow peers and used the "bros before h**s" defense to get them to back him without ACTUALLY spending any real time analyzing whether he was or was not doing a proper objective review process.

At the end of the day they all only care about one thing and that's their own success and letting one of their own get harmed like this would only potentially lead to more of it elsewhere and maybe even eventually to themselves.

I don't think anyone should be strong-arming anyone but the same goes for HUB and I'm sorry there reviews are biased and they do their best to "strong-arm" people's views towards the way THEY think they should see things (which ultimately is just the way they feel they'll see the best interactions from the majority of their viewers).

Like I said Steve with GN also has an audience that leans this way as well but unlike HUB he will just present things as they are even when they make amd look pretty bad. And even tell his audience that they are absolutely wrong.

 
I don't get why people get butthurt over reviewers receiving products from companies and decide that it's freebies. It's free only if they receive it as a gift and is not required to give back anything in return. In their case, they have to put work and effort into reviewing it, sometimes even weeks because video editing in a pain in the ***. That's time spent not doing anything else but work for the "giveaway" companies, so to speak.

For non-reviewing people, you also have to work for money (blue-collar job, washing dish or standing frontline in McDonald, w/e) in order to be able to spend it on things (graphic cards in this case). It is basically the same thing, it's just that if you make more money than needed, you also have extra pocket money for other stuffs, like how reviewers also get ads revenue on video streaming platforms.

Personally, I am happy that we have reviewers existing at all with their expert and subjective views on things so I can watch and know what to avoid spending on. They getting the exclusive things like Nvidia FE stuffs is just their bonus of being reviewers, which should be fine for most people, except maybe collectors and other sore asses.
 

No Longer Human

Posts: 48   +64
The problem I have (and many others in his audience, you know the ones the guys referring to) have called Steve out for OBVIOUS bias testing choices that's lean HEAVILY on making ray tracing less important, impactful, and detrimental to AMD.
I'd be the first to say there are two sides to every story and that I'm not a follower of HUB. That said Steve has a presence here on TechSpot whre I've lurked/posted for quite awhile and that doesn't sound like the Steve 'I know'.
Even if true though, shouldn't have Nvidia contacted him, set a meeting, discussed things and come to some sort of agreement, whether to continue or part ways. Instead they send a email that could be paraphrased to 'we'll kneecap you if you don't fall in line', then they claim only Nvidia understands the gaming community which they also claim supports their action. They are wrong here big time.
I'd like more details. people have said this is out of character for this rep. So was it a case of a bad day, person comes home, has a few and then makes the horrible decision to write and fire this email off? Or was it 'business' and came down the chain 'from above' or did he overstep his authority? We don't know. We do know though, that the email was a colossal mistake and highly offensive.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,800   +2,155
TechSpot Elite
The problem I have (and many others in his audience, you know the ones the guys referring to) have called Steve out for OBVIOUS bias testing choices that's lean HEAVILY on making ray tracing less important, impactful, and detrimental to AMD.

He specifically tests the game that have the least visual impact as well as bring smds wesker performance in the area to front stage.
Chris from the good ol' gamer gives a good explanation of this and it has to do with what Steve finds valuable over everything else and that's getting the most performance for your dollar. That's Steve's wheelhouse and he does a phenomenal job of it. The proof of this is that he's been doing it for over 20 years and has an extremely loyal following.
Some reviewers care most about outright performance, period. Some care most about the "frills" like ray-tracing (and that's all it is right now, no matter how much you want it to not be) and some love the technological advancements like DLSS 2.0 (which is amazing but very few games support it). Steve Burke is quite similar to Steve Walton in this regard but he also likes to take the cards apart and go deeper into the hardware technicals. However, Steve Burke REALLY took the piss out of the GTX 3090. Does that make Gamers Nexus an AMD shill site now too?
You may interpret Steve's methodology as being biased towards AMD but it's not. You usually get you more fps per dollar with Radeons but that's not Steve's fault, it's nVidia's fault. Steve doesn't put much weight behind ray-tracing because right now, it's not a mature technology. Linus said the exact same thing only in a much stronger way. He said (I'm paraphrasing but it's very close to his exact words) "Over and over and over again, we've seen that the first cards to implement a new technology are never powerful enough to actually use the technology properly once said technology has become commonplace so ray-tracing isn't important yet." Is Linus an AMD shill too now? Give me a rutting break.

It's very clear that you're rather short on tech experience and high on nVidia fanboyism because if you'd been around longer, you'd see a parallel already. You probably never think of how awesome it is that games have in-game physics with a destructible environment do you? Believe it or not, when it was new, all the noobs went ga-ga over it (saying that it was such an important feature, because they fell for nVidia's marketing hype) while gamers who were already experienced (like me) thought it was a really cool new thing, but not really anything that would make-or-break a game. After all, how many tiles and windows can you break with batarangs in Batman: Arkham Asylum before the coolness factor wears off and it becomes boring? Also, very few games had it so for the most part, it was completely irrelevant. That's why it was never anything more than a frill. Until ray-tracing completely replaces rasterisation, it will also be nothing more than a frill because the overwhelming majority of people care way more about smooth rasterised performance over ray-tracing eye candy that diminishes rasterised performance.

DLSS 2.0 is actually far more impressive than ray-tracing at this point but until it's supported by every game, it will also be a frill. If your favourite game franchise's newest release doesn't support ray-tracing or DLSS, are you going to NOT play it? That would be the height of stupidity.
 
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Tom Sunday

Posts: 64   +9
You sr have a bright future as a Nvidia PR guy!
I love free lunches and hardware giveways by being the man on the street. Money is always tight being a casual 24-hour per week Walmart employee with no benefits. But with Mr. JSHuang (CEO) being compensated USD$26 million annually and his executive team with Messrs: AJPuri DShoquist, CMKress and TSTeter all making around USD$4.5 million per annum I see things differently through my rose colored glasses. And especially when these published compensation payouts do not include 'change in pension' values and 'deferred stock option compensation.' Or corporate company loans to senior executives which will ultimately be forgiven. Why? These are under the radar and anyone buying another 'snowbird home' in a gated golf club community for USD$4 million (average) needs a down payment. There are about five 'Board Meetings' annualy conducted at NVIDIA and 10 members are paid a salary of USD$313,000 each for attending plus expenses for private Gulfstream jet services. I would love to be working for NIVIDIA in any capacity even in PR. But that is just a dream and ship that will pass in the night and perhaps even right next to my Walmart.
 
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Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,800   +2,155
TechSpot Elite
I'd be the first to say there are two sides to every story and that I'm not a follower of HUB. That said Steve has a presence here on TechSpot whre I've lurked/posted for quite awhile and that doesn't sound like the Steve 'I know'.
That's because it isn't the "Steve we know". It's just how that noob sees him and wants to see him.
Even if true though, shouldn't have Nvidia contacted him, set a meeting, discussed things and come to some sort of agreement, whether to continue or part ways.
I must disagree here. There can be no discussion because that discussion grants nVidia the influence that it must not have. Under no circumstances should nVidia have any control over any reviewer's methodology for obvious reasons. They should have just done what Linus said and told Steve "Not enough cards to go around and you didn't make the cut because >insert BS reason here<." because on this, there really is no wiggle room. That lack of wiggle room is the whole point of the independent review.
Instead they send a email that could be paraphrased to 'we'll kneecap you if you don't fall in line', then they claim only Nvidia understands the gaming community which they also claim supports their action. They are wrong here big time.
They know that they're wrong but they're too arrogant to care. Whatever makes them more money is what they'll do.
I'd like more details. people have said this is out of character for this rep. So was it a case of a bad day, person comes home, has a few and then makes the horrible decision to write and fire this email off? Or was it 'business' and came down the chain 'from above' or did he overstep his authority? We don't know. We do know though, that the email was a colossal mistake and highly offensive.
Based on Steve's latest video, I think that he knows exactly who it is. He had a bit of a knowing grin when he said that perhaps it was personal but he also said he believed that Bryan Del Rizzo signed off on it without fully reading it because he trusted his team. This tells me that there's a prick working at nVidia who has some beef with Steve and Tim (for whatever BS reason) and did this without Bryan realising it. Steve didn't look very mystified.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,800   +2,155
TechSpot Elite
It's clear that the issues involved in this have escaped your comprehension completely. Sorry can't help you. It literally has nothing to do with getting a free gpu or not.
I guess that he also doesn't understand that people get mad at him when he acts like a total prick. Oh well, he'll hopefully figure it out sooner or later.
 

Tom Sunday

Posts: 64   +9
...big meanie NVIDIA won't send me a FE GPU to review so I think I deserve attn from the "community" for such disrespectful treatment as well.
Yes I Agree that Steve Burke is quite similar to Steve Walton. I call them the two Steve's! I take the liberty to say that casual visitors like us here should cut them a little more slack. Because more often than not they are told the general commentary direction to take in all of their reviews. Reality: Advertising & Sponsor $$$ driving the bus. Commentaries on other sites even went as far to suggest that many tech-reviews have tendencies to be thinly disguised advertising oppertunities. Everybody wants to get paid. In my younger days disk jockey's got "Payola" to play certain songs on the radio. Journalists at the Washington Post and the New York Times are mandated to swing Democratic. We are living in a brave new world and recently watching the documentary "The Social Dilemma" and its manapulative influences made my heart sink even more. Enough said!
 
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NeoMorpheus

Posts: 883   +1,678
I didnt really like the 6800 review from Gamer NExus.

He started the video with "AMD mediocre cooler".

Yet the damned cooler actually did a terrific job and was proven by all the other reviewers.

That rubbed me off the wrong way, since you can call something mediocre if it is doing it job correctly and satisfactory.
 

Endymio

Posts: 1,334   +1,219
Under no circumstances should nVidia have any control over any reviewer's methodology
No matter what? If a reviewer's methodology consists of testing only at 720p resolution, using an AMD-written benchmarking program, then NVidia should still be obligated to send them their hardware for free? You might want to rethink that one.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 883   +1,678
No matter what? If a reviewer's methodology consists of testing only at 720p resolution, using an AMD-written benchmarking program, then NVidia should still be obligated to send them their hardware for free? You might want to rethink that one.

A reviewer that is as dirty and unfair as you described is one that we the customers should ignore from the get go.

Besides, he/she needs to be really big to be that important that only his/hers word matter tot he whole industry.

And with BS like what you described, there is no chance in hell to get that big.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,800   +2,155
TechSpot Elite
This is still enough, even after they felt the backlash and retraced their steps, to make me want to go Team Red over Team Green... or maybe Team Blue if Intel can produce something solid with its poached talent... after all, the GTX1080 is, at best now, mid to lower-mid tier.
I understand your sentiment but never forget that Intel has shown itself to be even more capable of terrible acts than nVidia. Intel was king for over ten years and had no qualms about committing actual CRIMES against society with its anti-competitive behaviour.

It wasn't just AMD who suffered, society as a whole did because we essentially lost a decade of progress to Intel's little incremental improvements that kept most people on Quad-Core CPUs and made Intel rich beyond the dreams of avarice.

That's capitalism for ya (at least the American version of it):
"The world can burn as long as our stock value doesn't drop!"
 

Endymio

Posts: 1,334   +1,219
Intel was king for over ten years and had no qualms about committing actual CRIMES against society...
we essentially lost a decade of progress to Intel's little incremental improvements
There were no crimes committed, nor even alleged. Civil antitrust violations are far removed from criminal violations. As for the "lost decade" you imagine, had automobiles progressed as much in that decade as microchips did, we'd all be driving cars that get 500 mpg, have a top speed of Mach 1, and cost less than $100.
 

Tom Sunday

Posts: 64   +9
...entitlement attitudes.
On a somewhat related thought..All reviewers are getting paid for their work by the TechSite owners who collect revenues from sponsors and advertsing. Accepting free test hardware then adding even more profits or gain to the receivers. Then some even suggest that there are big profits being garnered by providing thinly disguised reviews that skew the real truth. In my view all TechSite owners should pay for all hardware being reviewed and not accept so called free review samples. This should also be 'permanently posted' on the sites header to assure the community that all testing results are 100% unencumbered. Besides it will take the critism (or blame) off the reviewers. Nothing is free in this world and all free things do come with agendas and other dictates. One of our security guys yesterday at Walmart bought me a 'hotdog for lunch' because someone stole my bag-lunch prepared by my Mom out of the 'Associates Fridge' in our breakroom. Turns out in the end the free hot dog came with a requested favor as well. As the saying goes...not even free lunches are free!
 

Questors

Posts: 34   +34
Then some even suggest that there are big profits being garnered by providing thinly disguised reviews that skew the real truth. In my view all TechSite owners should pay for all hardware being reviewed and not accept so called free review samples. This should also be 'permanently posted' on the sites header to assure the community that all testing results are 100% unencumbered.

And there we have it. Ryan Shrout of PC Perpsective anyone? Kyle Bennett of HardOCP, now working for Intel ring a bell? Both Intel and Nvidia shills to the extreme. Tom's Hardware (not the original Tom Pabst). Nah, accepting freebees from the tech makers isn't a big deal folks. Nothing to see here. Read quickly and move along.

Tech manufacturers: Buy it. It just works. Trust us! 😇

The consumer: 😬

Reviewers should ALWAYS purchase their samples with no discounts or relations to the retailer, etailer or maker. All conflicts of interest are avoided. They clearly have clearly been problematic in the past and continue to problematic in the now.
 
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Tom Sunday

Posts: 64   +9
Ngreedya: We will do our best to satisfy crypto miners.
It's all about the money! That's the reason why Mr. Huang (NVIDIA CEO) is pulling down $26 million a year in salary. And per Forbes one the most highly paid CEO's in America. Besides he just paid $40 billion for purchasing ARM. My Reality: Talking across the folding tables at the most recent computer show here, I find that crypto miners are now pushing loads of RTX 1080 and 2080's on the used GPU market. For people like me that until now could only dream about owning a RTX 2080, that is welcomed news. Hopefully by mid February 2021 and working overtime (driving a third shift forklift) at my Walmart job, I can plunk down $150 or less for a 2080 crypto card to finally play Metro Exodus on max settings and meet the Aurora crew at Novosibirsk Metro station. Life is good.