USB-C will become mandatory for all new phones launched in the EU after fall 2024

eforce

Posts: 1,026   +1,477
No, it's because you think pro-consumer legislation that helps people and stops large corporations from:
1. being intentionally wasteful to gain profits
2. intentionally using non-standard connections so that they sell more expensive peripherals
is the same as "communism".

You don't care about the cable.
1. What is/isn't waste is subjective.
2. Do you have evidence they are purposely using Lightning to sell more expensive peripherals?
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 2,612   +3,199
TechSpot Elite
yeah actually you may get the same connector on every device but if you want that fast charging you'll need to use the wall wart as a lot of those Type C ports are only USB2.0 not 3.x gen X so no fast charging when you plug it into your PC or Laptop just slow old 5 Volts and 500 milliAMPs which will take you foreveeeeeeeeer to charge it even half way
Why? It didn't seem to take forever to charge my phone back when USB2 was en vogue. It might take my current phone forever to charge from dead because it's a Moto G Power with a 5Ah battery but it takes longer than forever to drain it. :laughing:
The EU did not go far enough with that spec they should also have mandated it be no less than a USB 3.1 gen 1 controller behind that USB Type C port
At least everything will fit and work, not like the landscape that existed before it. You say the EU didn't do enough but they did more than anyone else in the world so maybe we should be harping on the non-EU governments for sitting on their collective posteriors.
Well another classic case of money waste in politics.
No, I can't agree with this. It's the little things like this that make a bigger difference than you could possibly imagine.
If you want to set a standard start early and where it matters, and by this I mean EV's.
If there is a standard to be made it should be now and on EV chargers, universal connector, universal location so that charging stations dont have to support, hood, rear right and left, front right and left ect, those infra are costly to build, a standard there will help getting more charging station and a better support for ev,
Now this is something that I can definitely be on board with you about. There definitely needs to be some kind of governing entity enforcing a standard for EV plugs. The way things are now, it's like cars running on completely different types of fuel or wall sockets that are all over the place with regard to their design and functionality. It just serves to prove that the private sector would rather see the world burn so long as they get a few more dollars in their pockets (that they'll never spend).
By most accounts iPhone 16 would have been USB-C anyway. Apple crying foul just to be dicks.
That's because they ARE dicks. :laughing:
Computer mouses. The rule is, if a noun has an irregular plural, it becomes regularized when used in a different context or for a different purpose. Thus an ant has two antennae but a TV has two antennas. A book has two indices but a database table has two indexes.
It will be a cold day in hell before I say "Computer Mouses", "TV Antennas" or "Silicon Dies". I say mice, antennae, dice and I always will. :laughing:
 

Tribalcheetah

Posts: 18   +11

There's no freedom to choose whatever connector you like on an iPhone. It's just the old Lightning. Apple's arguments against this rule are that it will stiffle innovation. Yeah, right, because Apple innovated the Lightning standard on their own so much since 2012 when it was introduced. It still uses USB2.0 and 20W. Even $200 Androids support higher speeds.

While technically requiring a standard makes many public access issues simpler, doing so for something like a smartphone really seems like a minor thing. Gas stations manage to operate despite using several standards of petrol, as well as diesel, and often kerosene and propane as well.

And we're not talking about EV's here either which would have a good case for standardization since it would be easier to provide infrastructure. So I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Competition generally drives innovation in order to get ahead of the other producers. If customers want a better standard in charging their phone, they can use other devices. I don't believe Apple is holding anyone hostage.

You have no choice of cable no matter what device you use, because each device requires the fixed input adapter to charge it, whether it is a laptop, tablet, headset, earbuds, an EV, or a smartphone. Whether it uses the multiple USB standards, Lightning, multiple EV plugs, or the old coaxial connector.

I suppose you can crack open a device and solder in your preferred charger standard, and then flash the firmware. Seems like a bit of an effort to overcome whatever charge standard that device uses, though.

3rd parties provide adapters for all devices. Apple already uses USB-C in Macs. Where is the conspiracy?
 

comnut

Posts: 77   +30
And please tell me, how many different diameters the petrol pumps have? because, you know, how many different diameter holes for gas cars have?
or, just maybe, this is standardised as well?:)
well they do have a 'special plug' to stop you ruining your petrol engine with diesel!!!
 

comnut

Posts: 77   +30
Obligatory... https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png

and in the next 2 years, there will arrive a MUCH BETTER USB plug!!! easier, smaller, faster and more powerful...

and as for all the old stuff I have...............
Can some genius make a USB to C adapter that will **fit inside** the socket???
the smallest still pokes out...:mad:
 
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dangh

Posts: 679   +1,070
well they do have a 'special plug' to stop you ruining your petrol engine with diesel!!!
so, safety requirement, similar like you can't connect ther usb cable directly to power socket (110 / 220V );)
The petrol nozzle is standardised and all petrol cars, no matter shape, color, producent, engine size, are using exactly same nozzle. You don't have to bring your own adapter to match the nozzle to your car. Everyone is perfectly happy with a standard and noone argues 'I want my own falf a feet diameter nozzle into my car because otherwise you do not respect my freedom!". And in addition, if any producer would create a petrol car with different nozzle size and provide adapters or separate pumps on some of gas stations he would be laughed at.
Standards makes sense, you drive on right side of the road and even if opposite lane is free you dont drive there to show off your 'freedom' ;) and you don't have different power level in diffrent houses because someone wanted - as freedom - put 500V in their sockets. Standards reduce waste, improve innovation because people dont need to create new awesomne and non compatible solutions. They have standard line and can bild on top of that. And even if they fail, there is less waste to throwa away, like those stupid lighting cables.
Charger to my laptop (lenovo) charging my tablet and my phone (samsung) and my headphones, and ps5 controller. And that is an excellent solution.
 

waclark

Posts: 568   +356
Consent-O-Matic
SuperAgent
Yes, they have, in fact, accomplished something.
They stop manufacturers from messing with charging ports.

microUSB mice, miniUSB external drives and GPS devices, Type-B 2.0 printers, Type-B 3.0, Type-C phones, microUSB phones, micro super speed external enclosures, FW, TB...then there are the proprietary connectors, the tablets, the cameras, the consoles and what not.
That's not even including CrApple.

Finally, someone with sense is forcing these bastards to use the same connector and I won't need a specific charger for each separate device.
USB-Connector-Types.jpg
It's dumb. What happens when something better than USB C comes along? Now we have to change the laws again? Government has no business in these kinds of decisions. If Apple wants to stick with lightning, that should be their decision. Why not require OLED screens and headphone jacks as well? Why not dictate that all phones have a physical "home" button?

And what about the "wall" wart? Will that be required to be USB C as well? So now, all my USB A to USB C cables will be useless? It's not that big of a deal to carry multiple cables. You'll carry multiple USB C cables if you have several devices that use it.

Product design decisions should belong to the company, not the government.
 

3ogdy

Posts: 67   +54
It's dumb. What happens when something better than USB C comes along? Now we have to change the laws again? Government has no business in these kinds of decisions. If Apple wants to stick with lightning, that should be their decision. Why not require OLED screens and headphone jacks as well? Why not dictate that all phones have a physical "home" button?

And what about the "wall" wart? Will that be required to be USB C as well? So now, all my USB A to USB C cables will be useless? It's not that big of a deal to carry multiple cables. You'll carry multiple USB C cables if you have several devices that use it.

Product design decisions should belong to the company, not the government.
Is USB 2.0 better than USB 1.1? Is USB4 better than 3.0?
They still use the same connector, which goes to show that baking backwards compatibility into product design is possible and can work for decades.

It's true you probably wouldn't be getting the full performance out of the the newest devices by using an older cable, but at least the cable isn't tied to just a few devices.
The U in USB stands for Universal, right?

Yes, the power adapter might as well use USB-C.
Sure, you'd be limited to using the current USB Type-A to USB Type-C cables with your current devices and nothing released after 2024. Not without adapters.

Now, if there's any reason to make such a transition, there's no better one than going for universal connectivity.

As far as OLED and home buttons are concerned, they're not exactly analogus to the USB connector. They don't require you to buy various other accessories that are only compatible with a specific device.

I miss the headphone jacks, TBH, but then again...a lack of a headphone jack wouldn't require you to buy a specific model of earphones. As long as they're BT-compatible, you'd be good to go.
So we're still adhering to a common standard and you'd still be able to use those same earphones with newer phones, should you decide to upgrade 2, 3 or 5 generations down the line.

This was released 12 years ago and, thanks to being BT, it would still work with a brand-spanking new phone.
 
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waclark

Posts: 568   +356
Is USB 2.0 better than USB 1.1? Is USB4 better than 3.0?
They still use the same connector, which goes to show that baking backwards compatibility into product design is possible and can work for decades.
Right, but USB C is a break from that and who's to say the next iteration will use the same plug style as USB C?
It's true you probably wouldn't be getting the full performance out of the the newest devices by using an older cable, but at least the cable isn't tied to just a few devices.
The U in USB stands for Universal, right?
Well, we are talking about charging here. Not necessarily data transfer or anything else. Right now, I have fewer USB C devices than micro USB and I've got 2 or 3 lightning devices (iPhone, iPad, game controller etc).
Yes, the power adapter might as well use USB-C.
Sure, you'd be limited to using the current USB Type-A to USB Type-C cables with your current devices and nothing released after 2024. Not without adapters.
Correct, so this change will require additional cable purchases which is what it is supposed to prevent, right?
Now, if there's any reason to make such a transition, there's no better one than going for universal connectivity.
But it's not "universal". It's partly universal and there's nothing to say that everything will use USB C forever, meaning we will have yet another "universal" change to the new format.
As far as OLED and home buttons are concerned, they're not exactly analogus to the USB connector. They don't require you to buy various other accessories that are only compatible with a specific device.
That's true, I was more focusing on some government body dictating features.
I miss the headphone jacks, TBH, but then again...a lack of a headphone jack wouldn't require you to buy a specific model of earphones. As long as they're BT-compatible, you'd be good to go.
So we're still adhering to a common standard and you'd still be able to use those same earphones with newer phones, should you decide to upgrade 2, 3 or 5 generations down the line.
Ah, but what if I don't have a BT headset? Now I'm in the same boat as a charging cable, but spending far more money. I do have a very nice set of wired, noise cancelling headphones that I can no longer use with any iPhone (and many other phones) because it's not BT. So by leaving out the headphone jack they are forcing me to buy new headphones and NC BT headsets are not exactly cheap.
The thing is, charging cables are cheap, not like headsets or even some phone cases. And other than having different types of cables, I don't see an issue with having a micro-USB, Lightning and USB-C cable. I'll have multiple cables anyway because I'll want to charge more than one thing at a time.

I guess I don't see the real value in this. I get why some people may like it, I just don't see it as a big issue.
 

wiak

Posts: 85   +31
"For instance, the recently-unveiled MSI Titan GT77 ships with a 330W power adapter, and its components can draw over 250W combined."

then they can just do dual 240W USB-C Adapters
 

3ogdy

Posts: 67   +54
Right, but USB C is a break from that and who's to say the next iteration will use the same plug style as USB C?
I literally said "that baking backwards compatibility into product design is possible", and given what the situation for the past 3 decades has been, it's likely they've already considered it.
Well, we are talking about charging here. Not necessarily data transfer or anything else. Right now, I have fewer USB C devices than micro USB and I've got 2 or 3 lightning devices (iPhone, iPad, game controller etc).
Same here. I don't own CrApple products, so I don't and won't have their cables anytime soon, thankfully. They'll switch to USB-C whether they want to or not. Unless they want to leave the EU market.
Correct, so this change will require additional cable purchases which is what it is supposed to prevent, right?

But it's not "universal". It's partly universal and there's nothing to say that everything will use USB C forever, meaning we will have yet another "universal" change to the new format.
Not necessarily forever, but surely for a few decades, just like USB A has been.
Ah, but what if I don't have a BT headset? Now I'm in the same boat as a charging cable, but spending far more money. I do have a very nice set of wired, noise cancelling headphones that I can no longer use with any iPhone (and many other phones) because it's not BT. So by leaving out the headphone jack they are forcing me to buy new headphones and NC BT headsets are not exactly cheap.
It's a matter of making a change for a whole standard, not making a change for a couple of devices. This is the next standard, and we're in the transition period towards wireless devices. Rest assured, that once bought, your BT headset would work for many years to come. It's not gonna be tied to a generation of devices.
The thing is, charging cables are cheap, not like headsets or even some phone cases. And other than having different types of cables, I don't see an issue with having a micro-USB, Lightning and USB-C cable. I'll have multiple cables anyway because I'll want to charge more than one thing at a time.

I guess I don't see the real value in this. I get why some people may like it, I just don't see it as a big issue.
That's also true, but this way each of your cables would be more useful. I'd never bother buying lightning cables. None of my friends would be able to charge their devices at my place using my cables. Now, if their devices were USB C, they'd be able to recharge their devices regardless of the brand of their phone.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 2,612   +3,199
TechSpot Elite
And please tell me, how many different diameters the petrol pumps have? because, you know, how many different diameter holes for gas cars have?
or, just maybe, this is standardised as well?:)
Yep. And don't forget that the nozzle diameter for diesel is much larger than for petrol/gasoline (probably because diesel is so comparatively thick).
 

waclark

Posts: 568   +356
so, safety requirement, similar like you can't connect ther usb cable directly to power socket (110 / 220V );)
The petrol nozzle is standardised and all petrol cars, no matter shape, color, producent, engine size, are using exactly same nozzle. You don't have to bring your own adapter to match the nozzle to your car. Everyone is perfectly happy with a standard and noone argues 'I want my own falf a feet diameter nozzle into my car because otherwise you do not respect my freedom!". And in addition, if any producer would create a petrol car with different nozzle size and provide adapters or separate pumps on some of gas stations he would be laughed at.
If there were an advantage to having a different nozzle size you can bet someone would want to do it. In the case of gasoline/diesel there is nothing to be gained with a different set up. Data cables are different. And charging laptops still, frequently, requires a specific power brick and cable which are not universal. Sure, some are USB C, but not all, not by a long shot.

Standards makes sense, you drive on right side of the road and even if opposite lane is free you dont drive there to show off your 'freedom' ;)
Actually there are many countries that drive on the left side. Should we force cars in the UK to have the steering wheel on the left side?
and you don't have different power level in diffrent houses because someone wanted - as freedom - put 500V in their sockets. Standards reduce waste, improve innovation because people dont need to create new awesomne and non compatible solutions. They have standard line and can bild on top of that. And even if they fail, there is less waste to throwa away, like those stupid lighting cables.
Actually you do have different power options in some houses. Larger houses may have multiple circuits and if it's a commercial building it very likely has far more power than what you have in your home. As for lighting cables, who is throwing them away? I keep all mine but now I will have to throw them away and buy USB C cables.
Charger to my laptop (lenovo) charging my tablet and my phone (samsung) and my headphones, and ps5 controller. And that is an excellent solution.

We had that solution already. It's called micro USB. Why change to USB C? What's the over all advantage of USB C when it comes to charging?
 

waclark

Posts: 568   +356
That's also true, but this way each of your cables would be more useful. I'd never bother buying lightning cables. None of my friends would be able to charge their devices at my place using my cables. Now, if their devices were USB C, they'd be able to recharge their devices regardless of the brand of their phone.
One could make the converse argument. None of my family and friends can charge their iPhones if all I have is USB C cables. Why not just get rid of the cables altogether and go wireless charging? What is the actual purpose of a cable these days? You don't need it for data transfer, you have Wifi and BT. Charging can be wireless as well. Save the planet and get rid of ALL cables!
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,841   +7,755
Computer mouses. The rule is, if a noun has an irregular plural, it becomes regularized when used in a different context or for a different purpose. Thus an ant has two antennae but a TV has two antennas. A book has two indices but a database table has two indexes.
I'm still going to go with "mice", as the plural of "mouse", regardless of context.
 

3ogdy

Posts: 67   +54
One could make the converse argument. None of my family and friends can charge their iPhones if all I have is USB C cables. Why not just get rid of the cables altogether and go wireless charging? What is the actual purpose of a cable these days? You don't need it for data transfer, you have Wifi and BT. Charging can be wireless as well. Save the planet and get rid of ALL cables!
Well, if they can transfer and charge just as fast as they could through cables, then it might be OK.
Not for me, though. I still want to use my phone while it's charging. Not currently possible with Qi.

BT isn't that fast. Wi-Fi could work. The tech addict in me would still want a speedy wired connection, though.
I guess I've had too many disappointing interactions with wireless communications and I prefer the more reliable path.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,841   +7,755
Yep. And don't forget that the nozzle diameter for diesel is much larger than for petrol/gasoline (probably because diesel is so comparatively thick).
Don't forget, the very thin nozzle for gasoline was introduced during the crossover from leaded to unleaded gas. It was designed to prevent a bunch of dipsh!ts from putting leaded fuel into cars with a catalytic converters and ruining them. That's the way governments are supposed to work, to help save us from ourselves..
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,841   +7,755
2. Do you have evidence they (Apple) are purposely using Lightning to sell more expensive peripherals?
I would think all anyone would have to do us look at Apple's profit margins, to deduce, imply, or conclude, that this is more than likely true.

Consider the massive "favor" they did people by removing the headphone jack. Or more recently, no longer including a charger with new iPhones. After all, whoever buys an iPhone, must have had one before, and still has that charger, right?

For someone to believe anything other than, "Apple is only in it for the money", (and lots and lots of it), is to conclude they must have had "Master Chief", as their math teacher..
 
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Avro Arrow

Posts: 2,612   +3,199
TechSpot Elite
Don't forget, the very thin nozzle for gasoline was introduced during the crossover from leaded to unleaded gas. It was designed to prevent a bunch of dipsh!ts from putting leaded fuel into cars with a catalytic converters and ruining them. That's the way governments are supposed to work, to help save us from ourselves..
I agree. The problem is that we get these weirdos who say "This is tyranny! The government should let us destroy ourselves!" which is, of course, pure anarchy. In a free society, ALL laws are restrictions of freedoms because the idea is that you can do whatever you want unless the law says that you can't.

They never seem to understand that under actual tyranny, you can't do anything unless the laws specifically say that you can.
 

Athlonite

Posts: 365   +136
. It still uses USB2.0 and 20W. Even $200 Androids support higher speeds.
no they don't show me one Android phone that costs 200 bucks that has a greater than USB2.0 controller infact if you want USB3.x gen x controllers in your phone you'll only find it on the high end range of manufacturers phones