Whats the smallest case you'd use if.....

By k.jacko · 20 replies
Jul 16, 2007
  1. ....you had an intel E2160, a Gigabyte P35c DS3R mobo, 2Gb Geil PC6400 ram, 250Gb sata hdd, 1 x dvdrw, and a 7900GS.
    ...and.....you wanted to overclock it?

    Could a SFF case take the extra heat from overclocking do you think? I would probably put a freezer pro 7 on the cpu just to cool it better than the stock HSF.

    I'd like to get the cores running nicely at about 2.5Ghz, don't need to max it out by pushing for 3Ghz.

    your advice is appreciated, thanks. :)
  2. HPCE_Larry

    HPCE_Larry TS Rookie Posts: 132

    The money you would spend on that cooler I would spend on the cpu. Thats a piece of crap compared to the rest of your system. Get a core 2, they're cheap now.
  3. raybay

    raybay TS Evangelist Posts: 7,241   +10

    I second HPCE_Larry's suggestion. Start with a new CPU and heat sink.
  4. k.jacko

    k.jacko TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 493

    Thanks for your input, but someone needs to do their homework. The E2160, which is core2duo conroe can be overclocked easily to within reach of an E6600, it might only have a 1mb L2 cache (as opposed to the E6600's 4mb), but doesn't make much difference when gaming (according to quite a few benchtests).
    Its a very cheap and energy efficient cpu, the freezer pro7 i already have a brand new one waiting and it was only £11 anyway.

    I have 2 same spec rigs to build, so i'm budgeting, but even so, i'd be happy building a rig with this cpu cos it aint no slouch.

    Looks like we disagree already, but hey, i asked for your opinions and i got em....even if you didn't answer my initial question :p
  5. raybay

    raybay TS Evangelist Posts: 7,241   +10

    Perhaps you missed some stuff. Perhaps we did. Case heat is rarely an issue, but it is still good to have significant air movement, and a decent low speed case fan to pull air out is a good idea.
    Those of us who work a bench and see large numbers of computer builds each month know that CPU and fan combination is a difficult one, which is why we suggested you spend your money more wisely. My thinking is that you are targeting the wrong area first. Bolting a fancy fan to a cheap CPU isn't going to help much. But If you insist on that CPU, then I would start with a new heat sink and CPU fan combination... Zalman would be my choice.
    I will be interested to see if other tech readers support your position on the CPU.
  6. raybay

    raybay TS Evangelist Posts: 7,241   +10

    "Could a SFF case take the extra heat from overclocking do you think?"

    To specifically answer your question, NO. Not based on published tests, nor our experience. Most reviews show that case temperatures are not very significant, but if you use an SFF case, plan to add a large, slow moving, low noise fan.

    If you want to see how this works, get a thermal temperature gun ($35 to $55) and spot the temperatures in your current case.
  7. k.jacko

    k.jacko TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 493

    yeah, that was my original concern, with the case being small. It doesn't have to be small, but it would have been a 'nice to have' for the kids rooms ya know? I've personally built over 30 systems, with the last 5 being core2duo's and a quad core. I've re-cooled 2 of them with the freezer pro 7. why do you think it would be bad idea to cool such a cpu with such a cooler? Is it purely because of case size and speed of air flow? I'll admit i don't usually build SFF rigs, so maybe there are a few points i'm missing, to which i'm grateful for your input. The E2160 is a £25 saving on the E6300 (£50 for 2 rigs). It won't need to work as hard as my E6600.
  8. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 2,039   +9

    It'll add a few degrees to your temps, but I don't think its going to blow itself up if you put all those components overclocked, into an SFF case.

    It might end up noisier than you'd like if you're using 80mm fans, so stick with SFF cases with 120mm fans.

    Also, be careful of which graphics card you buy. Getting one which exhausts hot air immediately out of the case will help with your temps.

    Bear in mind that to use an SFF you'd need an SFF board. I'm not familliar with the new boards (and too lazy atm to google that board), but just make sure its not a full sized ATX board.
  9. mailpup

    mailpup TS Special Forces Posts: 7,182   +469

    Not to denigrate your kids but if it's just for them, why overclock? Of course, you can do as you like. Anyway, if you monitor the temperatures and they go too high, you can always transfer the components into a larger case and save the SFF case for another build (albeit, lower spec.).
  10. k.jacko

    k.jacko TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 493

    the reason behind the overlock is kind of two-fold. Firstly to see if i can, secondly, to get the best performance per pound note, seeing as i'll be building 2 identical rigs.

    None of this is set in stone, i could easily completely change my mind about the whole setup, thats why i posted this thread in the first place. To kind of weigh up the pro's and con's i suppose. :)
  11. danger_mouse

    danger_mouse TS Rookie Posts: 59

    OFFTOPIC: I see your from nottingham aswell k.jacko :) sorry i couldnt help myself lol
  12. k.jacko

    k.jacko TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 493

    yeah, where abouts are you in Shottingham :eek:
  13. danger_mouse

    danger_mouse TS Rookie Posts: 59

    long eaton lol urself?
  14. k.jacko

    k.jacko TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 493

    actually, i'm not sure, lol. Just sold my house in Bestwood. Currently in Cotgrave, moving to West Bridgford in 2 weeks, then moving to Radcliffe in January... *stops for breath* I feel like a frikkin gypsy! :suspiciou

    Anyway...about my case! :eek:
  15. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 12,973   +2,527

    Outwit, Outthink, outplay....

    I heard that on survivor and frankly, I have no idea how it pertains to computers.

    Isn't that 21xx something or other just a dual core Celeron or something?

    Also frankly, if I planned on burning up a new Intel processor by overclocking I'd pick an E4300 Allendale or if I planned on burning up a new Intel processor with virtualization technology I'd pick an E6320. Did I miss anything here? Don't care, just thought I'd ask.

    The smallest case I would use for anything is a mid tower. Asked and answered.
  16. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 2,039   +9

    SFF cases are fun to use, and with 120m exhaust fans, and heatsinks like the freezer7, you should be able to run them overclocked fine.

    Given that the mobo is mATX, they wouldn't overclock as well as full ATX systems. So you wouldn't be running into the same heating problems caused by overclocking, because you wouldn't be overclocking as much to start with.

    Either way, I'd go with at least the E4300 (I'd personally get the E6320, no matter how budget conscious I was), unless you were a fan of Celerons prior to this.
  17. k.jacko

    k.jacko TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 493

    Ok guys, thanks a lot.
    I'm glad i asked, as i think i am changing my mind now. Boot out the E2160 and aim higher :) and more expensive :(
  18. MetalX

    MetalX TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 1,388

    But the 21xx series aren't based on Celerons. They're Pentium 21xx, but they're based on the Core 2 Architecture, just with only 1MB L2.

    Everyone should stop telling him to get a different CPU. He's decided, and hasn't asked us to pick him a CPU.

    EDIT: Wow. Between the time I started posting this, and the time I finished typing, you said you'd aim higher ;)
  19. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 2,039   +9

    Well, don't be swayed by a bunch of strangers on the net who're out for extreme performances.

    You've done your own reading, and if you're absolutely convinced that extra cache is not very beneficial to your work, by all means, don't spend money on something you don't need.

    For games and such, I'm surprised that you managed to find an article which says extra cache is not beneficial. Might be a good idea to go back there and look at their methodology.

    edit: by the time I posted this, MetalX has just posted his. Which I want to add: although the 21xx series aren't based on Celerons, they are what Celerons were to Pentium4 compared to the E6xxx series: less cache and functions. And by all means, like I mentioned on top, if you don't need more cache/functions, don't get it.
  20. k.jacko

    k.jacko TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 493

  21. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 2,039   +9

    I took a look at their arguments.

    The extra cache really comes into play at higher clock speeds.

    I usually think of it as a table. You work on the table, and your cache is the table-space. RAM is the drawers, and HDDs are the cabinets in the corner.

    Now, if you're only working fast enough to go through a document an hour, you don't need as much desk space as a person who goes through 10.

    Back to computers, if you've clocked your CPUs at 3ghz (which they should be able to do easily on the Freezer7 in an SFF case, on an mATX mobo), the FPS differences would increase exponentially. your 4-7fps difference can suddenly become 20-35fps difference.

    But also to their defence, although nothing is mentioned on how to benchmarks were obtained (what graphics card particularly), having a lower end graphics card will minimise the difference between CPUs, as its usually the graphics card that will bottleneck the system.

    However, if you children are budding engineers, and use CAD alot, you can't afford not to have the extra cache :D:D:D

    edit: Also, I must point out that most posters out there are justifying their views, instead of looking at it both ways. Most of us do this, even me (although I do try not to). One other thing they totally miss is the overclocking potential, which will show that the E6xxx will totally blow away the E21xx when both are overclocked to its maximum potential. The only use comparing caches at the same speed would be for those people who aren't going to overclock.
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