Why aren't electric cars already ubiquitous?

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Ean Mogg

Posts: 176   +79
Range, I know the range will increase in the years to come as battery technology increases.
Charging time, I know that will get less as well as it's done since battery technology's been in use.
Price, As electric vehicles need about 200 parts to work as opposed to petrol cars 1000 shouldn't electric cars be cheaper? I know they are in early development but shouldn't the car companies take the hit for the future profits they will make on these cars.
We are (allegedly) suffering from a lithium "shortage". Lithium is the chief element in lithium ion batteries> (Although, yes, I am stating the obvious).

In any event, you'd think with lithium being 3rd on the periodic chart, it would be around in abundance. But, a star can't fuse lithium, it and 2 other elements between helium and carbon are all unstable. Thus, you have to wait for a supernova to come along, .and make lithium for you. FWIW, a star fuses to carbon from helium in what's called "the triple alpha process". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple-alpha_process
I know about lithium but there other types of batteries in development from sodium to quantum glass to refillable flow batteries and they all can be retrofitted except refillable flow batteries although refillable flow is more likely to succeed as you can pump out used electrolyte and pump in refreshed it could be retrofitted if you had a way on the car to put a pump hole although I'd leave that to the professionals lol
 

EClyde

Posts: 2,404   +948
The question this article posed can be summed up with these points;
1. Entry Price/Expense
2. Range(lack thereof)
3. Recharge times
4. Battery wear-down(further reducing range)
5. Maintenance Costs(see below)
6. Right-to-repair(lack thereof, in blatant violation of standing laws)

Enough said.
I just love final word guys
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 7,495   +6,305
"Hint: electric is less profitable." Not true at all!

The main reason the electric cars have not taken off is the oil companies influence in collaboration with auto manufacturers as they don't want to loose their lucrative market so they spread lies, deceits and misinformation to public...
Ah, yes, the nebulous "ebil gubbermonts an coopuratons!" defense. Seeing as companies like ford and nissan have reported low sales and tiny profits, if not losses, and even tesla, the biggest electric auto makers, struggles to keep their statements anywhere close to black, but I guess tesla is in cohoots with the oil companies too, spreading that misinformation about profits and costs because reasons.

But no, its a giant conspiracy. Riiiiight.....
Yes, that's the ticket. Just like thinking that VW would never alter software to cut their costs of manufacturing cleaner engines and give all their customers the impression they are greener than Greenpeace. Oh wait! That happened.

In 2016 the Sierra Club sent undercover volunteers to 308 car dealerships in the US, to highlight the differences between how a salesperson acts with an electric vehicle versus a combustion one. The results were staggering: one in six dealerships told the volunteers their electric cars were not sufficiently charged for a test drive, only half the salespeople described how an electric is charged (or refueled for hybrids), and one third did not discuss the tax incentives. In 2016, that incentive was usually $7,500 in tax credits.
I wonder why sales are lagging?

Look up BMW reliability in Consumer Reports. They are one of the worst. As I see it, its pretty clear that they want their customers in their repair shops so they can keep milking them. So why, with the revenue stream that is generated, would they want to make something that has far less moving parts and as such would need far less maintenance.

Fortunately, there are big automakers out there that are doing the research. We will see where it takes them.
#1 Design: up till Tesla, most EV were ugly, small little clown cars. Tesla - followed by Germans with PHEV - are the first to make "desirable" EV that don't stand out too much on the highwway.
Absolutely the number one reason why anyone with half a brain cell should buy a vehicle.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 7,495   +6,305
I know about lithium but there other types of batteries in development from sodium to quantum glass to refillable flow batteries and they all can be retrofitted except refillable flow batteries although refillable flow is more likely to succeed as you can pump out used electrolyte and pump in refreshed it could be retrofitted if you had a way on the car to put a pump hole although I'd leave that to the professionals lol
I am right there with you. However, that does not mean any of these will ever come to market. Among all the research that is out there, this would end all the arguments about range - https://phys.org/news/2019-01-tiny-silicon-particles-power-lithium.html It looks exceptionally promising - if it ever comes to market.
 

lipe123

Posts: 972   +561
Actual issues:
There are almost no independent repair shops ready to deal with them and in the case of Tesla they force you or void the warranty etc.
The price is a problem, even though you save 1000's every year you do pay a lot upfront.

The BS stuff:
Regular car sales earn the manufacturer almost nothing, the constant servicing and upsell of unnecessary crap at the repair places makes then a LOT of money. If we all start driving electric they will lose a massive revenue stream and tons of people will lose their jobs etc etc.
Short version, electric cars don't make enough money for the traditional car manufacturers.

So really Tesla is just going to keep pumping cars into the market as fast as they can until we get to a tipping point. The traditional manufacturers will realize, too late, and all go bankrupt or make huge changes to compete in the new market.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 7,495   +6,305
TBH Price is the only issue for me.
Give me something like a Yaris or preferably something bigger, so I can fit my family comfortably, 400 km range and I am good.
There are not many chargers in my country, but as long as the range is good and I have option to charge at home I seriously see no issue to switch my 2.0 TDCI for electric motor.

Even that new prototype of Prius, that with solar panels EVERYWHERE seriously peaked my interest - sadly the price will be ridiculous.

I can estimate my current car holding up 3 more years, so hurry up guys :-D
That three more years puts you in Toyota's announced EVs on the market range.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 7,495   +6,305
So really Tesla is just going to keep pumping cars into the market as fast as they can until we get to a tipping point. The traditional manufacturers will realize, too late, and all go bankrupt or make huge changes to compete in the new market.
As I see it, because Tesla is using off-the-shelf parts including what amounts to AA sized rechargeable Li batteries, Tesla is more likely to go bankrupt when the traditional companies that actually are investing in research put their cars on the market. They, like some traditional car makers, are not doing any advanced research. As I see it, the most advanced thing that Tesla has done is include fart noises for the turn signals. :laughing:

As I said above, BMW reliability is complete :poop: - they are a prime mover of getting their cars into the repair shops. This type of mindset (read any car maker that has crap reliability ratings and has for years), and any traditional car maker that is not engaging in research are the ones, IMO, that are most likely to go bankrupt.
 

Markoni35

Posts: 1,318   +535
If everyone would switch to electric cars, entire planet would be left without electricity. There's simply not enough electricity production capacity available from the current power plants. So, where will all the electricity come from? Newly built nuclear-crappy-fission power plants?

Thanks, but no thanks. Fukushima, Chernobyl, Windscale, Three Mile Island and thousands of other incidents (that media didn't even mention) have hopefully taught us something. First give us nuclear FUSION power plants, then we can talk electric cars.
 

IAMTHESTIG

Posts: 1,868   +900
According to Kelly Blue Book and Edmunds Automotive, the average new automobile sold rolls off the dealer lot at around $33,000. According to USA Today, the average new pickup truck purchased drives off the dealer lot for around $40,000. There are now several EVs in the $32,k-$38,k range before discounts and incentives. Also, in many cases you can lease an EV for less than a comparable internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle. Good luck finding one at a dealership though.
Not everyone buys a new car from a stealership though, lots of people buy used... sometimes from a stealership, sometimes one-on-one sales.

Yes EV prices are coming down which is great, but there still aren't any sub $20K which I'm sure is a large segment of the market.

I want an electric car myself, there are a lot of benefits; and I rarely do long road trips so it would be perfect. Unfortunately I can't afford one... I've looked at used ones but they are still out of my price range. The only thing I could afford would be a used Leaf but their batteries are crap.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 7,495   +6,305
If everyone would switch to electric cars, entire planet would be left without electricity. There's simply not enough electricity production capacity available from the current power plants. So, where will all the electricity come from? Newly built nuclear-crappy-fission power plants?

Thanks, but no thanks. Fukushima, Chernobyl, Windscale, Three Mile Island and thousands of other incidents (that media didn't even mention) have hopefully taught us something. First give us nuclear FUSION power plants, then we can talk electric cars.
Not if everyone charges at home at 110V. However, people install their own high-capacity chargers. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/518066/could-electric-cars-threaten-the-grid/
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 7,495   +6,305
So instead of getting on top of the game by harvesting from the elements at a grander scale. We should stop now and continue burning up the planet at an even faster pace.

Thanks, but no thanks.
EVs were common in the early 1900s. Then came the oil boom, and oil was cheaper so development stopped at that time. If it had not, there is a good chance we would already be driving EVs, IMO.

I agree. Stopping, yet again, is the wrong move.

One other thing would help, too. A switch from metal as a primary component of vehicle manufacture to carbon fiber since it would greatly reduce weight and thus greatly increase range - even with ICE vehicles. IMO, carbon fiber sandwich construction would be ideal.
 

mailpup

Posts: 7,745   +828
TS Special Forces
That's enough personal arguments. Please get back on topic and leave personal digs, name calling and personal comments out. After this, posts containing such comments will be deleted regardless of other content. Thanks.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,547   +7,388
That's enough personal arguments. Please get back on topic and leave personal digs, name calling and personal comments out. After this, posts containing such comments will be deleted regardless of other content. Thanks.
@mailpup I liked this post too. I just didn't give you a "like" for it, because I didn't want to be perceived as a brown noser
 
Would buy a Tesla tomorrow if we could drive one so we know my tall husband can fit, but the Big Three and dealerships have kept Tesla out of Michigan. If electric cars were a niche market or a fad why have they spent hundreds of millions on keeping them out of our hands?
 
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