Why Ryzen Was Amazing and the Haters Were All Wrong

Status
Not open for further replies.

DZillaXx

Posts: 533   +681
Well sure 3700x was an option, but it was priced insanely high and - it wasn't really competitive at the end of 2021. So I told them to get an alderlake. So yeah, I don't see how AMD support is so great. It's absolutely abysmal.
Everyone knew at the beginning of 2021 that early AM4 boards were getting Ryzen 5000 support. With Asrock being one of the first to publish official bios updates to add support. That was middle of January. Asrock Promised more to come, and MSI was in full force to do the same. Asus was the only ones to hold back, but just recently update their entire old lineup.

This was not long after Adler Lake. AMD should have pushed for this before Adler Lake released, and better timed support. As these updates should have came 1-5 months earlier.

Let me know of a Intel Board as old as some of these boards still getting Bios Updates?.... Nearly every Intel board I've ever owned felt like a damn android phone when it came to long term support.

Lucky for all AM4 platform holders, even more BIOS updates are in the works. So even more continued support.

How can you be mad as this? We the consumers win.
 

fps4ever

Posts: 937   +1,366
Are you suggesting that I should have told them to pay 300€ for a 3700x at the end of 2021? Cause that's how much it actually cost man. So yeah, Ryzen 3000 was not an option at that point in time.

Of course there is no everlasting support, but taking 2 freaking years to support a CPU (let me repeat that, by the time the x370 got support, zen 3 was already 2 years old!!! LOL) means a big percentage of the x370 users have jumped ship, because it was OBVIOUS at the time that they wouldn't be getting support.

I have a z690 unify X. Imagine if Raptor lake comes out at the end of 2022, but my z690 gets support at the end of 2024. Yes, that would be abysmal support. And that's exactly what AMD just did. So...

I never suggested anything but it was an option. So you are said to your friends instead of paying for an overpriced AMD processor upgrade to pay for an over priced Intel cpu and motherboard at the time LOL? Because everything was over priced at the time. Way to pick on one side. Again, you only knew the upgrade path when you purchased your pc equipment. And Again, you are arguing about things you don't own (x370) and changed the target.
 

Strawman

Posts: 577   +294
I never suggested anything but it was an option. So you are said to your friends instead of paying for an overpriced AMD processor upgrade to pay for an over priced Intel cpu and motherboard at the time LOL? Because everything was over priced at the time. Way to pick on one side. Again, you only knew the upgrade path when you purchased your pc equipment. And Again, you are arguing about things you don't own (x370) and changed the target.
I dont really get your point. With the cost of the 3700x they could get a 12700,which absolutely demolishes it. So... Im really at a loss here
 

fps4ever

Posts: 937   +1,366
I dont really get your point. With the cost of the 3700x they could get a 12700,which absolutely demolishes it. So... Im really at a loss here

I think you are confusing yourself here. When was the 12700 available when the 3700x was still at $300 in 2021 or is it 2022? The price of a 12700 plus the new socket motherboard is way over that price regardless. I hope for a $350+ cpu and motherboard you could beat it. And if you payed the early adopters tax I bet it was way more. Especially in 2021-ealry 2022 (yup just looked at price history).
 

DZillaXx

Posts: 533   +681
I dont really get your point. With the cost of the 3700x they could get a 12700,which absolutely demolishes it. So... Im really at a loss here
You would have to buy a new expensive mobo, and if they wanted DDR5 thats another major cost.

3700x's were easy to get on ebay and other used marketplaces.

The 2021 was a bad year to buy any PC hardware. It is bad when the most logical cheapest way to buy a new PC was a prebuilt.
 

fps4ever

Posts: 937   +1,366
You would have to buy a new expensive mobo, and if they wanted DDR5 thats another major cost.

3700x's were easy to get on ebay and other used marketplaces.

The 2021 was a bad year to buy any PC hardware. It is bad when the most logical cheapest way to buy a new PC was a prebuilt.

The 12700 has never been as low as $300 that I'm aware of. Granted its a much better processor but its hard to debate when numbers and dates are skewed.
 

hwertz

Posts: 146   +81
Just like too chip in, when I had a socket 7 board, I did not originally intend to upgrade CPUs in it but I did, I went through like 2 or maybe 3 CPUs in there and was seriously glad for it. As I recall I started with something like a AMD K5-75, and ended up with a K6-2 450 (which despite the 450mhz clock speed benched about dead even with a 1ghz Intel CPU of the time), something like a 10x spread in performance with the same board. I'm all for keeping on using the same socket for several years if it's reasonable to do so... if you don't upgrade your CPU, what's the harm, it's not like they're using some overbuilt unusually expensive socket to "future proof" it, and if you do it's nice to be able to just swap that CPU out and not have to mess with the rest of your system.
 

MarcusNumb

Posts: 54   +47
Nice post but I think we all need to avoid the hype before any new CPU generation. It does not matter whether it is AMD or Intel, unless your rig is about 5+ years old and your priority is gaming. I'm currently gaming on 1080p with a combo of 3600x + 3070ti + MSI x570 Tomahawk.

As far as I'm concerned, not a handful of AAA games will make my rig sweat these days, and I don't see many in the future, until the game developers can fully implement new engine like Unreal 5. By that time, my rig will be about 6 years old at least then probably I will think about upgrading. To be honest, reading news and reviews or rumors about new AM5 these days make me feel the urge to upgrade but in reality, that's just not necessary. My point of view when I recommend a build or build one for myself is that build needs to last well serving its purpose for at least 5 years, otherwise you will be miserable chasing after new techs every year. Ofc if you have money to do it, I'm happy for you but that's my point of view.

Competition is always good for customers, that is a fact so as much as you may hate AMD, they are doing a good job. Let's see if they can keep doing it well, cause their pricing strategy will never ever be the same. I'm not a fan of any of them, I'm just a customer trying to make the most of my purchase.
 

Aceseven

Posts: 315   +398
QUOTE
Essentially, if you bought a Core i5-7600K in 2017 it would have been a struggle not to upgrade by the release of the 10th-gen series
UNQUOTE

Well, I 'm still on the 4770K Haswell and my Maximus VI Hero Z87 motherboard bought in 2013.

I get that Chipzilla & f*bois rly hate us Haswell Hodlers. Well, haterz gunna hate I suppose.

The 4770K is still perfect for me for gaming and work and its power consumption is pretty low too in idle, a vast upgrade over the 400W power consumption of my Core 2 QX9650 to give me 4GHz.
I finally replaced my 3770k setup two months ago with a 5600x on an x570mobo, issue is that im stuck with my old 980ti til I see a gpu selling for a decent price.

the 5600x lets that 980ti really sing tho, games like gta5, ac odysssey, shadow of the tomb raider run smoother than ever, no odd lows, its crazy what a cpu upgrade did.
 

Rdmetz

Posts: 385   +187
I went on a MSI B450 Mortar MAX from Ryzen 2600 to 3600 to 5600X and I still have the option to upgrade to 5800X3D which is at least 20% better (especially in 1% lows) compared to the 5600X.

I'm a very happy AMD customer. Thanks AMD.

Now do the same with AM5 and you will have another winner platform.
So you bought not one not two but THREE cpus during the same time frame that someone with say a 8700k was basically keeping up and are now looking at getting a FOURTH cpu? I'd much rather have went 8700k to 12700k motherboard upgrade and all.
 

Dsirius

Posts: 143   +250
People have forgotten, pre and post Zen, you didn't have to upgrade as often on Intel as you did on AMD to keep up.
So you did not payed attention to the article or did not get the message. Intel buyers did not upgraded proc because they had no choice once the platform was changing every 18-24 months. AMD gave to all customers this option for 5 years and for less money. Whatever platform buyers choose is ok, this article successfully pointed the advantages which buyers have when spend their money on a platform or another.
 
Last edited:

Vanderlinde

Posts: 148   +102
Biggest problem of the initial release of Zen was, improper bios support, or memory support, or not enough proper testing done which led to quite some users with issues.

Once they where ironed out, these platforms really run well. I replaced my FX 8320 at 4.8Ghz with a 2700X and I'm telling you it was 50% uplift in everything pretty much.

These nodes dont OC that well, they are just very small, fragile and cant take beatings in terms of current or voltages like the FX line did. But they hold up very well.

There are still some issues, if you have for example Hynix memory instead of samsung, you might encounter that your board is not able to boot on advertised speeds or XMP settings.

I had a X470F that died; worked flawless with 3466Mhz memory and a 2700x. Now a Gigabyte X570F x570 aorus elite, it took at least 6 different bios versions to get it working properly.

And still not like, intented 3200Mhz speeds, nope, just 3133Mhz is all I can get. Appearantly boards do have issues as well such as signal quality or integrety.

Overall this board will yield me quite some time ahead knowing there is a 5950X available or a 5800X3D. No need to spend on new ram, board, nothing of that..
 

bandit8623

Posts: 391   +219
The first years of Ryzen weren't that good at gaming because most games were programed to work heavily with one high speed and low latency thread, which Intel had the advantage, instead of using multiple cores and threads. But, as it says in this article and in many reviews, amd had better IPC and in the long run that would make ryzen a better cpu for all tasks, including gaming, today you can see that statement to be true.
they still are. only so many threads you can spread out into game functions
 

Watzupken

Posts: 639   +521
I feel AMD have done a great service to consumers over the last few years, putting pressure on their competitors. For far too long, Intel have stalled innovation by churning out marginally better CPUs maxed out at 4c/8t for the retail market. You want anymore than 4c, then be prepared to pay through your nose. In the enterprise space, I don't believe Intel did anything differently as well, on top of slapping their customers with extremely high price tag for their products just because they pretty much a monopoly. I really wonder if AMD's Ryzen turns out to be uncompetitive 5 years ago, would we see have access to such powerful and high core count processors today.

In addition because of their complacency, Intel have clearly lost their node advantage, and thus, you can clearly see their products are getting more and more power hungry with each passing generation. Alder Lake is a great product and I am using one myself. However, it is very obvious that Intel had to push the chip really hard to outperform competition just by looking at the full tilt power draw. I know some people will argue that the power consumption in games is actually not high. But the truth is that the benchmarks that we see in reviews are always pushing the CPU to the max, which also means power consumption is also at its max.

Now from AMD's perspective, it is not all nice and sunny there based on my experience. I've tested and used every generation of Ryzen processors, before I finally decided to go back to the Intel camp for my main rig. I generally don't find any instability issues with Ryzen processors, even the first gen Ryzen 5 1600X that I used. There are some hiccups along the way such as the USB intermittent disconnection issue. However my main annoyance with AMD's platform is the endless AGESA updates, which to me is a double edged sword. It is nice that AMD continues to refine it, but in the process of doing so, there also runs the risk of breaking things which necessitates further BIOS update. I generally don't like to meddle with the BIOs unless something is broken, and I feel I've performed more BIOS flashes on the Ryzen platform than my 2 decades of meddling around with PCs before Ryzen came about.
 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 4,528   +2,497

So you did not payed attention to the article or did not get the message. Intel buyers did not upgraded proc because they had no choice once the platform was changing every 18-24 months. AMD gave to all customers this option for 5 years and for less money. Whatever platform buyers choose is ok, this article successfully pointed the advantages which buyers have when spend their money on a platform or another.
You're right.
Don't believe everything you read online.
 

Lounds

Posts: 1,147   +1,055
Great Article Steve, I bought a Ryzen 5 1600 and a Asus B350 Prime plus in November 2017, £160 + £75

In March 2021 I Sold my 1600 for £80 on eBay
With 90% of Final fees and charges £10 delivery, I then bought a Ryzen 5 3600 for £145. August 2021 I then got a RTX 3060 ti for £540

I am tempted to buy the 5800X3D but I guess it depends on how well it performs on my B350 motherboard.
 
Last edited:

Strawman

Posts: 577   +294
I think you are confusing yourself here. When was the 12700 available when the 3700x was still at $300 in 2021 or is it 2022? The price of a 12700 plus the new socket motherboard is way over that price regardless. I hope for a $350+ cpu and motherboard you could beat it. And if you payed the early adopters tax I bet it was way more. Especially in 2021-ealry 2022 (yup just looked at price history).
Of course it was more expensive but they are not even comparable. That's like arguing that the 12900k is more expensive than an R5 1600. Yeah, it is, but they are in a different league
 

Strawman

Posts: 577   +294
The 12700 has never been as low as $300 that I'm aware of. Granted its a much better processor but its hard to debate when numbers and dates are skewed.
I think it cost around 345 - 335 or something like that, not sure. At the time the 3700x was at 289.
 

Gastec

Posts: 242   +119
Great article Steve!
I am considering a 5800X3D to replace my 3800X chip, I do love this 10900k I have as well though and even thought of jumping to a 12900K system. Its cheaper to go 5800X3D for the simple fact I don't need a new motherboard (Asus Prime X570 P) I haven't decided, one needs to be sold though as the need for 2 PCs is no longer.

I cant wait for your review of the older boards.
I say buy, BUY THEM ALL! The sky is the limit!
 

Gastec

Posts: 242   +119
Great Article Steve, I bought a Ryzen 5 1600 and a Asus B350 Prime plus in November 2017, £160 + £75

In March 2021 I Sold my 1600 for £80 on eBay
With 90% of Final fees and charges £10 delivery, I then bought a Ryzen 5 3600 for £145. August 2021 I then got a RTX 3060 ti for £540

I am tempted to buy the 5800X3D but I guess it depends on how well it performs on my B350 motherboard.
The Ryzen 7 5800X3D is around 600 quid in the UK. €586 on Amazon. de (Germany). Do you have some special deal or know someone? Because those prices are unacceptable!
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,637   +4,605
TechSpot Elite
People have forgotten, pre and post Zen, you didn't have to upgrade as often on Intel as you did on AMD to keep up. If all AMD users care about are CPU upgrades, then you were basically the ones wasting your money. Look how long people kept i7 920's, 2500K's, and 7700K's and remained at or near the top in gaming compared to Bulldozer and Zen at those times. 4C/4T i5 was beating an 8C/16T R7!

New motherboards mean a new chipset, meaning more or better features and performance. I'll never turn that down if I want it after the 3 or so years I'll typically keep a motherboard.

As for AM5 socket longevity. I read an interview with a dude at AMD and he would not commit to how long AM5 would last when asked directly, and I see why he would do that. Revenue is up at AMD, and anytime they feel they have a competitive product, they raise prices. Look at Zen 3. Radeon VII. Look at how they wanted Zen 3 support to start after the 400 series. Profits are king. And AMD will ask for a kings ransom if they think they can get it. The plan was never to remain the cheaper option. You can't have all the latest tech and the highest IPC and not charge top dollar for it. I'm just saying, Zen 4 platform pricing may surprise a lot of people. Look at the introduction of X670E and X650E boards for starters. Those won't be cheap.

That's my take, anyway.
What you meant to say is that pre-zen people didn't have a reason to upgrade because... they literally didn't have a reason to upgrade. Intel just wasn't releasing better CPUs. It was not a good thing.
 

Strawman

Posts: 577   +294
What you meant to say is that pre-zen people didn't have a reason to upgrade because... they literally didn't have a reason to upgrade. Intel just wasn't releasing better CPUs. It was not a good thing.
That is a common misconception I've seen been thrown around with no actual data to back it up.

Intel consistently doubled the performance every 5 years at the same price point (2010 to 2015, 2012 to 2017 etc.). Amd on the other hand, from 2017 to 2022 has increased perfromance by 35-40% at the same price point (1700 to 5600x).

Their new r5 model needs to be a lot faster and cost 300 euros to actually match the performance increase intel was giving us in their STAGNANT years.

So yeah, I really don't get people throwing random stuff like stagnant intel around when they haven't actually checked the numbers. Amd is way more stagnant then the worst years of intel.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,637   +4,605
TechSpot Elite
The Ryzen 7 5800X3D is around 600 quid in the UK. €586 on Amazon. de (Germany). Do you have some special deal or know someone? Because those prices are unacceptable!
It's 470 eur in Romania (tax included). Not that far off from MSRP. One of those rare moments when something like this is cheaper here :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.