Torvalds blasts Nvidia over Linux support, gives them the middle finger during speech

By Lee Kaelin on June 18, 2012, 12:00 PM

Linus Torvalds, the driving force behind the Linux kernel, used a recent question and answer session hosted at the end of a speech at the Aalto Center for Entrepreneurship in Otaniemi, Finland to air his thoughts on Nvidia and its lack of Linux GPU driver support, leaving absolutely nothing to the imagination.

Update: Nvidia has responded to Linus' complaints over graphics support in Linux.

While taking questions from the audience, around the 48-minute mark in the video below, a woman explained the problems she had getting her laptop's Nvidia Optimus GPU to correctly work under Linux.  "I was expecting that Nvidia would kind of chip in and do something [but] they said flat out 'no' they're not doing any support."

Asked what his thoughts on the matter were, Torvalds responded: "Nvidia has been one of the worst trouble spots we've had with hardware manufacturers. And that's really sad because Nvidia tries to sell a lot of chips into the Android market. And Nvidia has been the single worst company we've ever dealt with."

However, Torvalds -- who has a history of speaking his mind -- didn't stop at that. "So, Nvidia, f*** you," he stated whilst gesturing with his middle finger to the camera, much to the applause of the audience. "I think it's really sad when you sell hardware and use Linux and you are being really difficult about it. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that other companies are perfect either."

His point is in reference to Nvidia's Tegra line, which runs on the Linux-based Android OS. Nvidia announced back in March that it would begin open-source support for Linux, but Torvalds' comments on Thursday would suggest things have improved little despite the public commitment to changing the situation.

Prior to this, the company had been so unwilling to provide assistance that the Linux community reverse-engineering its GPU drivers to provide an open source alternative that was less buggy for users of the OS.




User Comments: 51

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Tygerstrike said:

Oh my! Very nice to see someone in a position of power tell us what they think w/o all that nasty political correctivness we have been forced to deal with. I say if your easily offended by sailor speak and gestures, you need to go back to your school marm life in the 1890s lol.

Its also good to see that finally some issues and concerns are being addressed. Cant wait to hear the other companies response.

Ranger12 Ranger12 said:

The title confused me for a sec. I thought nvidia actually supports Linux now. Come to find out...they don't...

Guest said:

nVidia had supported Linux in the past, it seems to be a recent change in their policies though.

Oddly enough, I believe AMD is now supporting Linux and it should work with Enduro.

Guest said:

Also forgot to mention:

Way to stick it to nVidia Linus!! I felt like doing the same thing, I just don't have the public eye or theirs and I'm glad you did!

hahahanoobs hahahanoobs said:

Hopefully this will accelerate the death of Linux on the desktop. Yea I said it.

Guest said:

It's fun to watch linux users complain. Your using open source software, something not being paid for and they have the nerve to conplain when they don't get support... Give me a break. Cool story bro comes to mind.

dividebyzero dividebyzero, trainee n00b, said:

The title confused me for a sec. I thought nvidia actually supports Linux now. Come to find out...they don't...

Nvidia do have Linux support - better/more mature in fact than AMD and Intel as a general rule. The difference is that Nvidia design/write their own proprietry driver, whereas AMD and Intel liaise with the open source community. Given the respective end products, the maxim of a camel being a horse designed by committee comes to mind.

As for Torvalds going off the deep end...well, hardly surprising given that the guy loves grandstanding.

Torvalds rants against OpenSUSE

Torvalds rant re: Linux DRM

Torvalds rants against C++

Linus Torvalds modus operandi is basically centred around foot-stamping and the internet sound-bite- I think that's been the case since back in his Transmeta days.

m4a4 m4a4 said:

Eff off buddy. They do not need to support you and obviously by your attitude they shouldn't. Linux isn't popular enough for them to NEED to support it.

It's like going to an apple store and demanding they fix your non-apple PC. They will refuse you outright because they have no obligation, even if you tell them "f*** you" :P

If you're running linux, go find your own solution like almost everything else....

cliffordcooley cliffordcooley, TechSpot Paladin, said:

They do not need to support you and obviously by your attitude they shouldn't. Linux isn't popular enough for them to NEED to support it.
You obviously think Linux can operate without graphical drivers. Just how exactly do you think Linux will gain popularity without graphical drivers? All that foul language and your post still doesn't make any since.

yRaz yRaz said:

I'd just like to say that if I pay $300 for an nVidia graphics card and want to use linux, they should effing support linux. Their support for linux is even more confusing when you think about how many tegra processors are in Andriod devices, a linux based operating system. I wonder how many people watched the whole thing, if at all. Sure, Linus hating nVidia makes for a great headline but there is actually much more important and interesting things in the video.

Towards the end of the video Linus said, "I like offending people because I think people who get offended should be offended." Obviously all the people hating on linux because of what Linus said are making him very happy right now. Go watch the video, it's insightful from all aspects of computing regardless of OS.

dividebyzero dividebyzero, trainee n00b, said:

I'd just like to say that if I pay $300 for an nVidia graphics card and want to use linux, they should effing support linux.

They do. You seem to be missing the point. What Linus is railing about is the fact that Nvidia write their drivers and don't allow third parties access to them (I.e. they remain proprietry)...and, judging by recent experience, I'm not so sure that the supposed co-operation between IHV and open source community is a great advertisement tbh.

yRaz yRaz said:

I'd just like to say that if I pay $300 for an nVidia graphics card and want to use linux, they should effing support linux.

They do. You seem to be missing the point. What Linus is railing about is the fact that Nvidia write their drivers and don't allow third parties access to them (I.e. they remain proprietry)...and, judging by recent experience, I'm not so sure that the supposed co-operation between IHV and open source community is a great advertisement tbh.

You obviously missed my point

amstech amstech, TechSpot Enthusiast, said:

The coolest part about this is that Techspot has posted a picture of a person flippin the bird faced directly at the camera/viewer right on their front page for hours. Nice!

dividebyzero dividebyzero, trainee n00b, said:

You obviously missed my point

Not in the least. Your point(s):

if I pay $300 for an nVidia graphics card and want to use linux, they should effing support linux

Please list any features not available to Linux users when using a GF card...and no, the dumba$s question the girl put forward doesn't count, since it's obvious to virtually anyone with a rudimentary technical knowledge/ 60 second Google search, that Optimus is only available to Win7/8 users - Nvidia aren't even back engineering for XP and Vista, yet the girl expects a Linux port **cough*setup*cough** :eek: (which Nvidia are already on record as saying won't happen...back in October 2010 )...I'm guessing she makes her hardware choices based on what colour the power LED is if she isn't aware of a decision made a year and a half ago

Towards the end of the video Linus said, "I like offending people because I think people who get offended should be offended." Obviously all the people hating on linux because of what Linus said are making him very happy right now

As I noted before. Linus is a master of self promotion and using the media. "all the people hating" ! If hate = meh, then you're right- otherwise it's just a marginal consumer use demographic. Maybe Tegra changes that, but for all the ranting (much devalued by Linus' continued use of the method) it still looks more like Linus trying to keep himself relevant/in the public eye- as is usually the case.

Anyhow, I look forward to your list of Nvidia driver features denied Linux users

yRaz yRaz said:

@dividebyzero, you still obviously missed my point. There were people in the comments section saying that nVidia shouldn't support linux for the most part "just because." I was referring to those people.

That "******* question the girl put forward" is a perfectly valid question. If winning an argument on the internet is so important to you that you have to disregard valid information, be my guest. To expand on what she said, she had the laptop before nVidia came out and said that. She was complaining about the lack of dual GPU driver support for linux, not the overall lack of support.

However, it is nice of someone to actually watch the video before commenting. I like how you had to go watch the video to see what I was talking about just to argue with me. Was it an hour well spent or did you just skip around to find the part where she said that?

Marnomancer Marnomancer said:

I honestly don't give a crap unless I can use Compiz.

Travolds has always been doing that. GNOME is an unforgetable example.

Guest said:

Hahaha, I like you guys.you tell the truth...... but seriously if Linux need to be in competition Linux need sponsor.

dividebyzero dividebyzero, trainee n00b, said:

@dividebyzero, you still obviously missed my point. There were people in the comments section saying that nVidia shouldn't support linux for the most part "just because." I was referring to those people

Fair enough, but those people comprised hahanoobs and a guest. Hardly the prevailing attitude.

That "******* question the girl put forward" is a perfectly valid question. If winning an argument on the internet is so important to you that you have to disregard valid information, be my guest. To expand on what she said, she had the laptop before nVidia came out and said that. She was complaining about the lack of dual GPU driver support for linux, not the overall lack of support.

Firstly, she wasn't complaining about dual graphics, she was complaining about switchable graphics.

Secondly, the 2-year old puchase is a straw man argument. Nvidia made it fairly clear prior to Optimus's launch that Win7/8 and Apple OS's would only be supported (a fact widely reported in Febuary 2010...which by the way is near two and a half years ago) - the reasoning behind the decision is also included in the link.

If she's disappointed that Linux doesn't rate high enough to warrant a driver re-write, then again, fair enough. But you using the two year timeline makes no sense, she should have been aware of the limitations of the tech prior to purchase.

However, it is nice of someone to actually watch the video before commenting. I like how you had to go watch the video to see what I was talking about just to argue with me. Was it an hour well spent or did you just skip around to find the part where she said that?

Nah. Saw it on The Reg yesterday, and unlike some, I log on and off depending on work schedule....but predictable use of an OT final paragraph. What next -a full detour into an ad hominem diatribe ?

Night Hacker Night Hacker said:

If you want your OS supported, cursing at the hardware company and telling them where to go isn't the way to go about it. Very immature.

Cota Cota said:

If I could give the Nvidia guys the finger, I would be so happy *sigh*

yRaz yRaz said:

Fair enough, but those people comprised hahanoobs and a guest. Hardly the prevailing attitude.

Firstly, she wasn't complaining about dual graphics, she was complaining about switchable graphics.

Secondly, the 2-year old puchase is a straw man argument. Nvidia made it fairly clear prior to Optimus's launch that Win7/8 and Apple OS's would only be supported (a fact widely reported in Febuary 2010...which by the way is near two and a half years ago) - the reasoning behind the decision is also included in the link.

If she's disappointed that Linux doesn't rate high enough to warrant a driver re-write, then again, fair enough. But you using the two year timeline makes no sense, she should have been aware of the limitations of the tech prior to purchase.

Nah. Saw it on The Reg yesterday, and unlike some, I log on and off depending on work schedule....but predictable use of an OT final paragraph. What next -a full detour into an ad hominem diatribe ?

everything you said was a straw-man argument. I wasn't even talking about the girl until you brought her up. Everything you've said was based off of that.

You seem to be missing the point. What Linus is railing about is the fact that Nvidia write their drivers and don't allow third parties access to them (I.e. they remain proprietry)...and, judging by recent experience, I'm not so sure that the supposed co-operation between IHV and open source community is a great advertisement tbh.

straw-man

Anyhow, I look forward to your list of Nvidia driver features denied Linux users

Straw man

Nah. Saw it on The Reg yesterday, and unlike some, I log on and off depending on work schedule

I don't care were you saw it or when, you're just a person arguing with me on the internet.

but predictable use of an OT final paragraph. What next -a full detour into an ad hominem diatribe?

ad hominem

m4a4 m4a4 said:

They do not need to support you and obviously by your attitude they shouldn't. Linux isn't popular enough for them to NEED to support it.
You obviously think Linux can operate without graphical drivers. Just how exactly do you think Linux will gain popularity without graphical drivers? All that foul language and your post still doesn't make any since.

I never said that. They haven't been fully supported before, why does it matter to the linux community now? They have been getting by without proper drivers for decades.

Obviously you didn't understand my post if you are going to complain that it doesn't make sense...

Darkshadoe Darkshadoe said:

Google should just go into the video card making business and really throw a monkey wrench into the works >

Guest said:

"why does it

matter to the linux community now?

They have been getting by without

proper drivers for decades."- m4a4

This is the reason why Linus used the "F " word in the first place. Though I am really happy he literally used those words but it was very unprofessional on his part and for the image of the community as a whole.

Guest said:

Guest said: "It's fun to watch linux users complain. Your using open source software, something not being paid for and they have the nerve to conplain when they don't get support... Give me a break."

That comment makes no sense. This about for the hardware that they PAID for and no the OS. Whether you have an OS that you bought, stole or got for free is in that context totally irrelevant.

Btw, I'm not Linux user in case you wonder

dividebyzero dividebyzero, trainee n00b, said:

I'd just like to say that if I pay $300 for an nVidia graphics card and want to use linux, they should effing support linux.

Please list any features not available to Linux users when using a GF card...and no, [obvious example from the vid argued against]...Anyhow, I look forward to your list of Nvidia driver features denied Linux users

You say Nvidia aren't supporting Linux, whereas my stance is Nvidia choose where and how they support linux. The fact that Nvidia offer driver support (albeit proprietry) would bolster one of these arguments. Offhand I'd have to say that most (if not all) difference in functionality comes from the control panel (as is also the case for AMD's linux driver). As for Tegra, it sounds as though there must be at least a modicum of linux support:

[link] .

I don't care were you saw it or when, you're just a person arguing with me on the internet.

For someone who doesn't care you certainly devoted enough time and space to your faulty deductions:

I like how you had to go watch the video to see what I was talking about just to argue with me. Was it an hour well spent or did you just skip around to find the part where she said that?

As an earlier poster said...cool story bro

yRaz yRaz said:

You say Nvidia aren't supporting Linux, whereas my stance is Nvidia choose where and how they support linux. The fact that Nvidia offer driver support (albeit proprietry) would bolster one of these arguments. Offhand I'd have to say that most (if not all) difference in functionality comes from the control panel (as is also the case for AMD's linux driver). As for Tegra, it sounds as though there must be at least a modicum of linux support:

For someone who doesn't care you certainly devoted enough time and space to your faulty deductions:

As an earlier poster said...cool story bro

To be more specific I was saying that if someone is willing to pay tons of money for a graphics card to use with their choice of operating system, then that company should support that operating system. I was also making fun of the people that think nVidia shouldn't make drivers for linux at all.

You made an ad hominem trying to discredit what I said by talking about how much time I spent arguing with you. It didn't take me long to reply if you're wondering. You made a straw man trying to continue arguing with me. You didn't even try to make me look wrong about what I said in my last comment. Why do you keep trying?

Arizonian said:

Way to show his true colors. Looks like Nvidia made the right choice. Others soon to follow.

Guest said:

what is it with all these uneducated people?

Linux has a place like any other OS has.

ios = for kids

microsoft = little technical

linux = extremely technical.

so by taking all of those in you should realise linux will always be the lesser in the global market, the majority of the world will never be extremely technical but that does not mean it will die out. Linux is known for its stability, which is why many techies prefer to work with a Linux environment, it doesn't get random errors, nor does it crash after being idle for a year.

In terms of stability:

Microsoft = most unstable

ios = occasionaly unstable, but not half as much as microsoft.

linux = extremely stable.

also linux makes the best servers because it doesnt utilize as much resources as other OS.

Linux is also the base system of nearly everything other then Microsoft. even ios is based off of linux.

so while Linux is not the poster child of Operating systems, it is the most important one of all of them. more development of Linux can lead to better products in the future.

the only reason why im not using linux on this pc is because I like to play games. the only sad thing about linux.

Guest said:

The OS may be Open-Source, but remember the Hardware itself was purchased. The users are entirely within their rights to request for support for Linux Drivers.

MCJeeba said:

I love how no one pays any attention.

"His point is in reference to Nvidia's Tegra line, which runs on the Linux-based Android OS."

PC nerd PC nerd said:

Hopefully this will accelerate the death of Linux on the desktop. Yea I said it.

Linux is one of the last truly free havens. Windows 7 and MacOSX are both heavily locked down and the internet is slowly being invaded by corporations.

Plus, most of the servers and super computers which keep the world moving run various forms of Linux/Unix.

Adhmuz Adhmuz, TechSpot Paladin, said:

To be more specific I was saying that if someone is willing to pay tons of money for a graphics card to use with their choice of operating system, then that company should support that operating system. I was also making fun of the people that think nVidia shouldn't make drivers for linux at all.

This is the single most ignorant thing I think I have ever read on a forum, the consumer has the final choice. If your buying something that says "DESIGNED FOR WINDOWS 7" on the box and nowhere does it say anything about Linux and this is the operation system your using then simply don't buy it. It?s not a hard concept, if not your argument can apply to anything. It's sad when people think the product is designed to cater to them and them alone... It's alright, stop buying massively expensive Nvidia cards for your Linux box. NO ONE CARES.

Guest said:

I don't get what all the wrangling is about, after all Linux is only Windows with a different skin on, so nVidia gear runs the same on anything.

PC nerd PC nerd said:

I don't get what all the wrangling is about, after all Linux is only Windows with a different skin on, so nVidia gear runs the same on anything.

Seriously? Do you know anything at all about operating systems?

Windows and Linux are completely different.

Guest said:

Seriously? Do you know anything at all about operating systems?

It's Techspot, you don't need to know anything at all to have an opinion - you just need to be able to read three words of a sentence and then rant and rave like an *****.

I expect it's all the same to them - brings in the traffic, etc...

m4a4 m4a4 said:

It's a good thing that when it comes to Linux, EVERYONE who bothers to use it knows there is very little to no official support for it and that not everything is guaranteed to work. And if you don't know that, why are you using it in the first place??

Guest said:

PCNerd, you are mistaken, Windows and Linux ARE the same, they are just opposite ways round - you look at a Windows desktop from the other side of the screen, it is indistinguishable from Gnome (being as both were just dressed up versions of OSX aka Sinclair BASIC. Also to clear up another Linux misconception, it isn't a "free" operating system, that is a corruption of "three", which is the version of Windows you see if you go round the back. I hope that is all clear now; let's hear no more of this nonsense!

cliffordcooley cliffordcooley, TechSpot Paladin, said:

PCNerd, you are mistaken, Windows and Linux ARE the same
Lets judge a book by its cover, paying no attention to the differences in code within. If Windows and Linux was the same then there would be no need for Linux drivers because drivers for Windows would be an effective solution.

yRaz yRaz said:

This is the single most ignorant thing I think I have ever read on a forum, the consumer has the final choice. If your buying something that says "DESIGNED FOR WINDOWS 7" on the box and nowhere does it say anything about Linux and this is the operation system your using then simply don't buy it. It?s not a hard concept, if not your argument can apply to anything. It's sad when people think the product is designed to cater to them and them alone... It's alright, stop buying massively expensive Nvidia cards for your Linux box. NO ONE CARES.

I use Windows 7, haven't touched linux in years. There is a market for people who want to access the raw computational power in graphics cards. Folding@home is just one example. You can do that through linux but it shouldn't be this much of a pain. There are many people who like to do this kinda of thing. There is potentially millions of dollars out there for what ever company wants to grab it. If there is anyone who needs access to this kinda of power it's in the linux group. I'm not talking just about home applications or uses either. The people where he was speaking weren't neck beards looking to play videogames, they were developers and scientists.

hahahanoobs hahahanoobs said:

Linux is one of the last truly free havens. Windows 7 and MacOSX are both heavily locked down and the internet is slowly being invaded by corporations.

Plus, most of the servers and super computers which keep the world moving run various forms of Linux/Unix.

Oh please. All I got from your first sentence was, bla bla bla. Your second sentence is common knowledge, which is why I specifically said "on the desktop".

Linus has no right to tell nVIDIA what code to use for their drivers in a Linux environment, considering they are lucky to get working drivers from them at all and for as long as they have been getting them.

Guest said:

I think you have a wrong idea of what open software is, a lot of us donante for the software we use, and we are asking for support for a video card we paid for.

hahahanoobs hahahanoobs said:

I think you have a wrong idea of what open software is, a lot of us donante for the software we use, and we are asking for support for a video card we paid for.

What do donations made to Linux have to do with nVIDIA revealing their driver code for Linux devs to rewrite it? You have nVIDIA driver support, it's just not to Linus' liking, and that's as they say, tough beans. Deal with it, or get a real OS.

petert said:

@dividebyzero

Dude, you need to chill down. I am not trying to start a flame war but from my humble experience, I can tell you that whatever Torvalds said - it is already overated or not important. C++ is a horrible language (may shock you, but when you know several other oop based languages it is impossible not to reach this conclusion). It was known for years - Torvalds doesn't win a novelty prize by that statement. DRM cannot be possible gaining friends no matter what the platform of the implementation is. You may like it, but I assure you the rest of us don't. OpenSUSE may suck - I don't know - as a long time GNU/Linux user I can speak about ubuntu - their choices regarding the security suck big time - also their so called approach to user friendly has brought them nothing but whiny users that run back to windows whenever batlefield or whatever crap don't run in Wine. Check their forums - you'll see a lot of "I thought Ubuntu would make me go to the moon but instead it doesn't run Crysis (whatever edition) at whatever fps number". It is normal in open source world - distros rise and fall.

Also - when you say recent experience - chose your words carefully - recent, in your definition means May 2011 - that is not recent experience dammit!

I don't see your point in Torvalds self promotion - I don't think an yt video made for an university should count - you're forgetting the small user base that desktop GNU/Linux based distros have - around 1 %. It is possible that many users from that tiny 1 % don't care about what Torvalds said (see the whiny reference above!). So, apart from a very very tiny population, nobody cares about what Torvalds says. Especially, given the fact that nobody likes rudeness. So again, what self promotion?

Whatever Torvalds said at the end of the video - IT WAS A JOKE DAMMIT! He doesn't offend people on a regular basis and he doesn't enjoy it! (Hint - nobody likes to work with a rude person).

Nvidia sucks big time. Even if Torvalds was wrong, you apparently forgot how nvidia treated its customers over the years.

Ranger1st Ranger1st said:

Not for me, in fact I'm looking forwards to Steam's support of Linux in the near future as they are well aware of how badly win 8 is going to pancake in from 60,000 ft. This.. gesture.. of reality to Nvidia only increases my positive opinion of Linux.

Hopefully this will accelerate the death of Linux on the desktop. Yea I said it.

dividebyzero dividebyzero, trainee n00b, said:

...C++ is a horrible language....DRM cannot be...OpenSUSE may suck - I don't know

Missed the point. The point was that Torvalds has a prior record for grandstanding/being outspoken to draw attention to himself/Linux- NOT the subject of the rants

I don't see your point in Torvalds self promotion - I don't think an yt video made for an university should count - you're forgetting the small user base that desktop GNU/Linux based distros have - around 1 %.

Exactly the point. Are you going to argue that Linus Torvolds -in a yt video - is suddenly not one of the biggest tech related stories on the net at the moment? Do you think that that the same yt video would have received even 1% of the coverage it has if Linus hadn't used an expletive or chav sign language ? 454000+ views for the full version in three days says you're wrong.

apart from a very very tiny population, nobody cares about what Torvalds says. Especially, given the fact that nobody likes rudeness. So again, what self promotion?

This is the internet. Drop an F-bomb and flip the bird and you'll have a following in about 0.02 seconds- if that person is even remotely famous outside their own immediate family, you can guarantee that recognition follows...maybe not to the same degree as Keyboard Cat- but certainly a higher profile than they enjoyed before. Check it yourself...436,000 references -not too shabby!

So, if you're telling me that just as many people are familiar with the name Linus Torvolds today, as were familiar with him last month for instance, and I see half a million hits or more on YouTube (counting the numerous short versions)...I don't concur. And if more people are familiar with his name in the last three days -it's almost entirely down to two words and a gesture. Note that people who do this spontaneously generally don't look straight to camera whilst doing so.

Whatever Torvalds said at the end of the video - IT WAS A JOKE DAMMIT!

So what. Are you telling me that people that joke on camera can't be self promoters, or use the media to elevate their profile ?

He doesn't offend people on a regular basis and he doesn't enjoy it!

I like being outrageous some times....I like offending people because I think people who get offended should be offended -Linus Torvolds (from the video)

(Hint - nobody likes to work with a rude person).

Rubbish. A lot of people like working with a rude person- so long as the person being rude isn't directing it at you.

Guest said:

What nonsense. Any hardware we purchase should have the driver support at least for major OSes and Linux IS a major OS after Windows and iOS.

From when hardware supposed to be OS dependent?? It should be other way around. Talking about a GPU (device drivers to be specific) with 'designed for Windows7' label on it is hilarious. What's next? A next gen CPU saying 'sorry. I'll run only Windows X'.

Zeromus said:

Oh my! Very nice to see someone in a position of power tell us what they think w/o all that nasty political correctivness we have been forced to deal with. I say if your easily offended by sailor speak and gestures, you need to go back to your school marm life in the 1890s lol.

Its also good to see that finally some issues and concerns are being addressed. Cant wait to hear the other companies response.

Other companies response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW1Nff6jgjo

Relic Relic, TechSpot Chancellor, said:

Haven't had the chance to watch the video, but given that Nvidia can't get Optimus drivers to work properly on Windows laptops I can totally understand the frustration.

Guest said:

Whatever you think of Linux or Nvidia, at the end of the day Linus Torvalds is no better than David Orcus.

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