TechSpot - PC Technology News and Analysis

johnny5 · #1 03-05-2002

How do you install more than 512meg of memory without getting an error message in Win 98 SE?

svtcobra · #2 03-05-2002

What is the error message?

from what I have read and experienced, that much ram is useless in Win98se. You would have to upgrade to Win2k to see a difference.

Also, your mobo bios might need to be updated to see more than 384mb. This is why you might be getting an error message. List your system specs so I can figure out what your maximum ram is . Also, one of the ram chips could be defective. There could be a number of different reasons why you are getting an error.

Rick · #3 03-05-2002

The answer to the majority of your Windows problems:
http://support.microsoft.com/search/kb

Possible answer to your specific problem #1:
http://support.microsoft.com/search/...;en-us;Q253912

Possible answer to your specific problem #2:
http://support.microsoft.com/search/...;en-us;Q146912

[size=1]

Quote:

"Out of Memory" Error Messages with Large Amounts of RAM Installed (Q253912)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this article applies to:

Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition
Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition
Microsoft Windows 98
Microsoft Windows 95
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SYMPTOMS
If a computer that is running any of the versions of Windows that are listed above contains more than 512 megabytes (for example, 768 megabytes) of physical memory (RAM), you may experience one or more of the following symptoms:

You may be unable to open an MS-DOS session (or command prompt) while Windows is running. Attempts to do so may generate the following error message:

There is not enough memory available to run this program.
Quit one or more programs, and then try again.
The computer may stop responding (hang) while Windows is starting, or halt and display the following error message:

Insufficient memory to initialize windows. Quit one or more memory-resident programs or remove unnecessary utilities from your Config.sys and Autoexec.bat files, and restart your computer.

CAUSE
The Windows 32-bit protected-mode cache driver (Vcache) determines the maximum cache size based on the amount of RAM that is present when Windows starts. Vcache then reserves enough memory addresses to permit it to access a cache of the maximum size so that it can increase the cache to that size if needed. These addresses are allocated in a range of virtual addresses from 0xC0000000 through 0xFFFFFFFF (3 to 4 gigabytes) known as the system arena.

On computers with large amounts of RAM, the maximum cache size can be large enough that Vcache consumes all of the addresses in the system arena, leaving no virtual memory addresses available for other functions such as opening an MS-DOS prompt (creating a new virtual machine).

WORKAROUND
To work around this problem, use one of the following methods:

Use the MaxFileCache setting in the System.ini file to reduce the maximum amount of memory that Vcache uses to 512 megabytes (524,288 KB) or less.

For additional information about how to use the MaxFileCache setting, click the article number below to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
Q108079 32-Bit File Access Maximum Cache Size
Use the System Configuration utility to limit the amount of memory that Windows uses to 512 megabytes (MB) or less.

For additional information about how to use the System Configuration utility, click the article number below to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
Q181966 System Configuration Utility Advanced Troubleshooting Settings
Reduce the amount of memory that is installed in your computer to 512 MB or less.

STATUS
Microsoft has confirmed this to be a problem in the Microsoft products that are listed at the beginning of this article.

MORE INFORMATION
Vcache is limited internally to a maximum cache size of 800 MB.

This problem may occur more readily with Advanced Graphics Port (AGP) video adapters because the AGP aperture is also mapped to addresses in the system arena. For example, if Vcache is using a maximum cache size of 800 MB and an AGP video adapter has a 128-MB aperture mapped, there is very little address space remaining for the other system code and data that must occupy this range of virtual addresses.

[size=1]

Quote:

Reported Memory Does Not Match Amount of Installed Memory (Q146912)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this article applies to:

Microsoft Windows 95
Microsoft Windows 98

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SYMPTOMS
When you view the Performance tab in System properties, the amount of memory reported may differ from the actual amount of memory installed in the computer.

CAUSE
This behavior can occur for any of the following reasons:

Himem.sys is not using all the memory on an EISA computer.

A driver or program loading from the Config.sys or Autoexec.bat file is claiming a portion of random access memory (RAM).

A virtual device driver loading from the System.ini file is claiming a portion of RAM.

A protected-mode driver is causing the memory mismatch.

The registry is damaged.

A CMOS setting is disabling some of the RAM.

You have the "maxphyspage=" setting in your System.ini file set to restrict Windows from using some of the installed memory.

Ramdrive.sys is being loaded in the Config.sys file.

You are using a video adapter that is integrated into the motherboard.

RESOLUTION
To resolve the issue, use the method in the appropriate section.

Himem.sys Not Using All the Memory on an EISA Computer
If you have an EISA computer, determine whether Himem.sys is addressing all the available memory. To do so, please see the following article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:

ARTICLE-ID: Q82712 Q82712
TITLE : HIMEM.SYS /EISA Switch

Device or Program Loading from the Config.sys or Autoexec.bat File
To determine whether a real-mode device or program is claiming a portion of RAM, follow these steps to bypass the loading of the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat files:

Restart your computer. For Windows 95, press the F8 key when you see the "Starting Windows 95" message, and then choose Step-By-Step Confirmation from the Startup menu.

For Windows 98, press and hold down the CTRL key after your computer completes the Power On Self Test (POST), and then choose Step-by-Step Confirmation from the Startup menu. For more information about Windows 98 startup, see the following article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
ARTICLE-ID: Q178548
TITLE : No "Starting Windows 98" Message at Startup

Press Y at each prompt except the following prompts:
Process your startup device drivers (CONFIG.SYS)?
Process your startup command file (AUTOEXEC.BAT)?

After Windows loads, check the memory reported on the Performance tab in System properties.

The real-mode CD-ROM driver from Teac for their 4x CD-ROM drive loading in the Autoexec.bat file has the parameter "xmssize= -1." This parameter can cause this behavior. The resolution is to change the parameter to "xmssize=0."

Virtual Device Driver Loading from the System.ini File
To determine whether this behavior is caused by a virtual device driver being loaded from the System.ini file, replace the System.ini file with a clean version. To do so, please see the following article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:

ARTICLE-ID: Q140441
TITLE : Creating a New System.ini File Without Third-Party Drivers

Protected-Mode Driver Causing Memory Mismatch
To determine whether a protected-mode device driver is causing a memory mismatch, perform the following steps:

Click Start , point to Settings , click Control Panel , and then double- click System .

Click the Device Manager tab.

Double-click a listed device, and then click the Original Configuration (Current) check box to clear it. When you are prompted to restart the computer, click No .

Repeat step 3 for each listed device.

NOTE: Do not repeat step 3 for devices listed on the System Devices branch. When you disable the hard disk controller, click Yes to restart the computer if the hard disk controller is a Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) device. PCI hard disk controllers cannot be loaded and unloaded dynamically.

For additional information about PCI hard disk controllers, please see the following article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
ARTICLE-ID: Q136106
TITLE : Re-enabling CMD PCI IDE Controller Hangs Computer

Restart the computer.

After Windows loads, check the memory reported on the Performance tab in System properties.

Registry Is Damaged
To determine whether the registry is damaged, replace the current registry with a backup copy. For information about how to do so, please see the following article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:

ARTICLE-ID: Q131431
TITLE : How to Troubleshoot Registry Errors

A CMOS Setting Is Disabling Some of the RAM
Some computers have CMOS settings that can disable a portion of the computer's RAM or prevent Windows from recognizing the RAM. Computers known to have such a setting include:

The Cyrix 166. This computer has a CMOS setting labeled "Hold to 15 MB RAM." If this setting is enabled, Windows reports only 15 MB of RAM on a computer that has more than 15 MB of RAM installed. Disable this CMOS setting to cause Windows to recognize all the RAM in the computer.

Maxphyspage Setting in System.ini File
Remove or disable the "maxphyspage=" line in the System.ini file, and then restart your computer. To disable the line, use a text editor (such as Notepad) to edit the System.ini file and place a semicolon (

at the beginning of the line.

Ramdrive.sys Being Loaded
Check your Config.sys file for a line containing "Ramdrive.sys." If you have this line, it means you are using a RAM drive. To disable the RAM drive, remove or disable the line in the Config.sys file that contains "ramdrive.sys." To disable the line, use a text editor (such as Notepad) to edit the Config.sys file and place a semicolon (

at the beginning of the line.

[/size]

Mictlantecuhtli · #4 03-06-2002

I wonder why M$ tells users to limit their free memory below 512M. I had no problems with min- & maxfilecache being 65536 or something like that. I didn't use maxphyspage setting at all.

DSMF · #5 03-06-2002

Here is an explanation of Vcache and how Windows handles memory plus how to enable/disable MapCache with a link to a program that will allow you to configure Vcache in the System.ini file from one GUI....

[size=1]Windows 98 supports the mapping of cached pages to increase the amount of memory available to running applications. The Windows 98 memory manager architecture divides memory into 2 parts:

- Protected-mode disk cache (VCACHE)

- Memory allocated to run programs and hold data (VMM)

Reading from memory is much faster than reading from the hard disk. VCACHE improves performance by reducing the number of times the hard disk is accessed. A process in memory will demand a particular section of code; if that section of code is in VCACHE, it can be accessed and used much more quickly than if that section of code needs to be read from a file on disk. For example, if you were to launch an application, close it, and then shortly thereafter launch it a second time, the application's launch time would now be noticeably reduced. This is a result of copying much of the application from VCACHE instead of the hard disk.

Memory allocated to the disk cache is not available to executing
processes. Reducing the amount of memory available to running
applications negatively impacts performance by increasing the amount of data swapped from memory to the hard disk. Once again, reading from memory is much faster than reading from the swap file on the hard disk.

In Windows 95, there are two instances of some code in physical
memory; one instance stored in the disk cache to reduce the time
required to load the application should it be invoked again, and
another instance in VMM for the running application. Eliminating the instance of the data in the cache would increase the amount of memory available to VMM, but would negatively impact application reload times.

Windows 98 supports the mapping of cached pages to increase the amount of memory available to running applications. Memory mapped I/O from the cache eliminates needless duplication of data while the application is running. Application code is loaded into VCACHE, and then executes out of the cache rather than having to be copied to another part of memory before it executes. When the application is closed, the memory manager labels the space that application was using as not currently being used to maintain the benefits of caching--if the application is not restarted, that space is given to other tasks. If the application is restarted, the application still exists in the cache, maintaining improved application reload times.

Windows 98 maps cached pages by default. This performance enhancement can be disable by creating a MapCache entry in the registry key

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System
\CurrentControlSet
\Services
\VXD
\VMM

If the MapCache entry does not exist, Windows 98 will map cached pages. Creating the MapCache entry will disable the mapping of cached pages.

------------------------------------------
To create the registry entry for MapCache:
------------------------------------------

1. Select MAPC_OFF.INF found in the \Tools\MTSutil folder on the
Windows 98 CD.

2. Right-Click MAPC_OFF.INF.
-or-
Hold down the SHIFT key and press the function key, F10.

3. Choose INSTALL to create the entry for MapCache.

============================================
MAPC_ON.INF - ENABLE MAPPING OF CACHED PAGES
============================================

Refer to the previous section for information concerning the mapping
of cached pages.

Windows 98 will map cached pages if the entry for MapCache is
absent.

------------------------------------------
To remove the registry entry for MapCache:
------------------------------------------

1. Select MAPC_ON.INF found in the \Tools\MTSutil folder on the
Windows 98 CD.

2. Right-Click MAPC_ON.INF.
-or-
Hold down the SHIFT key and press the function key, F10.

3. Choose INSTALL to remove the entry for MapCache.[/size]

CacheMan: http://www.outertech.com/downloads.php?Windows

ldogg · #6 03-06-2002

Yeah I don't think windows 98 supports more than 512 megs I think that's why my 524 megs of ram produces a memory address error or something on some memory test I ran.

boeingfixer · #7 03-14-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by ldogg
Yeah I don't think windows 98 supports more than 512 megs I think that's why my 524 megs of ram produces a memory address error or something on some memory test I ran.

Maximum PC did an article on this awhile ago with 98. ME and 2000. Only 2000 was able to efficiently use RAM above 256. In their test, the ME and 98 machines actually slowed down after more than 256 was installed. 98 and Me cant use like over 196 of ram. It doesn't know how to use the extra.

Th3M1ghtyD8 · #8 03-14-2002

You have to change the VCache settings in order to use more than 512Mb. I am currently working on a Tweaking program for all OSes and I am in the process of including this fix.

As soon as the beta is ready I will post the link in the forums, so that you lot can test it.

Beta will probably be out sometime next week.

TS | Thomas · #9 03-14-2002

I think the problem was something along the lines of Vcache wasn't releasing the used RAM. So you had to limit it & you'd be fine.
So it can work finre with it other than wanting to limit the maximum size for vcache

kapeed1986 · #10 01-06-2006

Now that MS has officially announced no more support for Win9x users, it'd be better u switched on to WinXP .. It is 1000 times better than 98 ... I've been using XP for over 2 years and it has crashed only ONCE !
even serious errors are done with by XP ..one reboot and voila ..u're up and running .. unlike a reinstallation of OS in the case of 98 !

Tokyopete · #11 01-26-2008

Certain Intel CPUs will only accept up to 512 with Win98SE installed. These are in the 715/745 series cpus. Asus mboards are also subject to this limitation with Win98SE.
There is nothing that can be done to change or increase about 512!!!!! I have an old board still running which has the limitation. The computer runs perfectly as long as it is regularly defragged.

caravel · #12 01-26-2008

It has nothing to do with the motherboard or CPU. Win9x is the problem. The OS cannot address any memory above 512MB. The fix is to simply restrict the vcache and that will prevent any further crashes.

In all honesty there isn't much point in running this OS any more unless you want to get certain old programs/games working that won't run on 2k/XP/Vista.

SNGX1275 · #13 01-26-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by caravel

In all honesty there isn't much point in running this OS any more unless you want to get certain old programs/games working that won't run on 2k/XP/Vista.

Maybe not anymore, but in 2002 when this thread was created it was

caravel · #14 01-26-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNGX1275

Maybe not anymore, but in 2002 when this thread was created it was

Too true... I used to run Win98 as late as 2003 and I remember having to add those lines to the vcache section.

Tokyopete · #15 01-27-2008

Asus TUSL2-C, CUSL2 motherboards with Intel 715 cpu are limited to 512 with Win98SE only BUT other motherboards such as Abit can use up to 768 so it can depend on the motherboard and cup whether or not there is a limit at 512. I know because I have the above mentioned motherboards in use today.
Vcache settings can be changed quite extensively but it recommended to find a site on the internet that will explain what to do in detail. Seek and thou shall find.

Tokyopete · #16 01-27-2008

http://www.putergeek.com/vcache/index.shtml for full information on the v-cache and what to do with various os such as Win98Se etc. As I mentioned in another post, I have reset the v cache settings and other settings to deal with the 512 limitation.
I am absolutely sure that Asus TUSL2-C and CUSL2-C motherboards with Intel 715 cpus when Win98SE is used are restricted to 512 so your assumption that 524 is too much is correct. celeron 1400cpus also suffer the same limitation.

DataCom · #17 02-20-2008

Hi,
I have an Asus P5P800 SE and it is a dual boot system. It's running millenium & winxp pro. Millenium for older programming programs not xp compatable. There is 1 gb of memory installed and currently millenium is limited to 512mb. Last year I tried a new install of millenium for test purposes and noticed it didn't need the 512 limitation. The millenium install that does require the 512 limitation does a blue screen saying system halted on boot if the 512 limitation is removed. I considered re doing the windows install with the 512 limitation but there is would be a ton of work involved and some of the stuff installed I don't have the install's for anymore.
So some apps might be lost which is not a good choice. I read once that the VMM dir created during install is based on the amount of ram installed during windows install. I have tried an overlay but it had no effect. The other choice is exporting the software keys of the registry and importing them in to a fresh install. I'm not sure which keys I need but I have seen it done before.

any ideas?

DataCom

Starcruiser322 · #18 03-21-2008

I can't even get over 128 MB on my 98SE!

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