Kibaruk
Posts: 3,836 +1,189
Cool story bro... I even gave you the benchmarks to back it yet...amd fanboys can never loose...
AMD Ryzen: Prices revealed, no Windows 7 support, smaller than Skylake
- Thread starter midian182
- Start date
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,597 +5,227
Or maybe because you're living in a fantasy land where AMD is so awesome and Intel sucks balls... Did you know that AMD is also future proof?
TheBigFatClown
Posts: 1,110 +495
How old an operating system truly is depends on how you look at it. Microsoft keeps releasing security updates for Windows 7 on a regular basis. I see in my "Installed Updates" KB's for .NET Framework as recently as last December and KB's for Microsoft Office 2010 even more recently. Among lots of others but you get the idea. So spinning Windows 7 as a 7+ year old operating system is partially true depending on your point of view..
When it hasn't been patched for 7 years, then you might have a stronger point to be made.
Also, your point might be made stronger if you actually explained what the loss or gain is in pairing an older operating system with a newer CPU. What Kaby Lake (or Ryzen) features won't be exploited by Windows 7? I'm genuinely curious.
Does "not supported" mean Windows 7 won't work on Ryzen chips or does it just mean you won't be exploiting all the new features of the chip to it's maximum potential? And what are those features exactly?
Last edited:
No, we're not "farked." We're just going to have to use older generation CPUs that are almost indistinguishable hardware-wise. We're not the ones trying to make money selling new hardware.
Unless you're one of the 75% of serious gamers who run Nvidia hardware, in which case DX12 offers no benefits over DX11.
EClyde
Posts: 2,404 +950
Well thought out reply
EClyde
Posts: 2,404 +950
DX Whatever...makes no diff to me but then there are few games I want to play anymore. Can anyone tell the diff between caff and decaf? Some, sure.
Someone8MyPosts
Posts: 464 +146
Yep, those stats are real yo: http://wccftech.com/intel-settles-15-year-class-action-lawsuit-faking-benchmarks/
Raiderman
Posts: 68 +59
I will be taking a brand new MSI GT73VR Titan G series laptop, wiping the preinstalled bloatware/malware/crapware, also known as Windows 10, and installing an updated (jan 2017) copy of Windows 7 SP1. Hoping AMD will remove their hands from their ankles, and tell Microsh*t to stick their corporate c**ks up somebody elses derriere.
GirlDownunder
Posts: 126 +39
Because, this?
"...while AMD did test the processors on the older OS, there won’t be any support for what IS STILL THE MOST POPULAR VERSION of Windows."
AMD "could have" gone ahead and supported (they did test it, after all) & gain those who wish to continue with 7. MS supports 7 for three more years. I agree-- they blew it.
Phr3d
Posts: 404 +87
OR
like several Games that 'required' XP when it was released and NOT immediately embraced as it required a Lot over Win9x,
it -could- be that they got a Ni-ice bonus for committing to supporting Only the 'latest' OS for an agreed period of time, particularly since their APU was delivered Ready for the Win10 'conversion' on the XBox. Not difficult for PC end users to solve, a nice tech and dollar benefit if they said YES to Win10 only. MS certainly will embrace anything that will make Win10 more attractive, so it stands to reason that they'll go Much further to assure that Ryzen performs Very well in the new OS.
I'm not crazy about it either, but depending on the dollars and tech? It surely helped keep 'em alive while they finished the R&D on Ryzen, and it looks to be (finally) a worthy competitor that -might- get Intel Moving again.
We can certainly hope.. ('cuz 16 threads and software that can abuse them sounds godly to me - showing my age, lol)
Last edited:
A bit unfortunate AMD has decided to be so short-sighted in not supporting Win7 and it will ultimately cost them a significant piece of the market in new processor sales. Too many of us have long known and decided we wanted no part of Microsoft's Spyware/BigBrother program in win 8 and up, (and sadly 7 if you're permitting them to install it...). The point, of course, is that many will remain on win7 and for that reason alone, I will reassess my long term loyalty to a once much wise AMD...
Burty117
Posts: 5,108 +3,689
Why is everyone bashing on AMD for not supporting Win7? You all make it sound like you've got another choice. Intel's latest also doesn't officially support Win7.
I severely doubt not supporting Win7 will have any drastic affect on sales. All new OEM machines run 10 and anyone building a new PC will put 10 on it.
Only people it will effect are businesses that haven't bothered updating old software that doesn't run on anything newer than Win7. Guess it's time for said businesses to splash some cash and get it updated.
I severely doubt not supporting Win7 will have any drastic affect on sales. All new OEM machines run 10 and anyone building a new PC will put 10 on it.
Only people it will effect are businesses that haven't bothered updating old software that doesn't run on anything newer than Win7. Guess it's time for said businesses to splash some cash and get it updated.
Phr3d
Posts: 404 +87
I've read, over 20 years, that it takes quite a Long while to initially determine the possible benefit, then write the code, extreme testing for intra-issues and finally train millions of employees across thousands of corporations on a million unique and company-specific softwares that had Better improve productivity in some measurable way and have a lifespan of =/>5 years..
but maybe I misunderstood or read the wrong sites and it is actually easy to do with Sharp minds.. those negligeable real-time processes with government regulation and lawsuit exposure should be a breeze with the right team. /s
but maybe I misunderstood or read the wrong sites and it is actually easy to do with Sharp minds.. those negligeable real-time processes with government regulation and lawsuit exposure should be a breeze with the right team. /s
Last edited:
Raiderman
Posts: 68 +59
It's not just AMD, it's that AMD is the latest to bend to the "nazi" like tactics of MS. AMD has always been the one to think "outside the box", so for them to fold like a deck of cards, is not like them. The Kool-aid drinking kiddos say everything is fine, and there is nothing wrong with Windows 10, when everything is wrong with it.
Redbeard74
Posts: 6 +0
I've been out of the loop for a while, so I am surprised that you are saying that a Gen 6 Intel proc is still the 'flagship' CPU even when going head to head with an unlocked Gen 7.
Could someone shed some more light on this for an 'unknowlegdeable' dinosaur?
Steve
Redbeard74
Posts: 6 +0
How does a smaller CPU die translate to simpler circuitry and therefore fewer defects? More cores and higher transistor count=at least equally complex circuitry from what I've been taught. Am I barking up the wrong tree here? Would someone care to enlighten me?
Steve
Kibaruk
Posts: 3,836 +1,189
When things are actually reviewed by other companies... dude you are like the vaccination people. 1.000.000 studies that they help, 1 study that don't...
It's always nice to here others opinions. A businessman I'm not. In fact, I retired a Microsoft network certified engineer for a tier1 service provider and also did the Nestles, (yes that Nestles), NT roll-out across the central and eastern part of the country a few years back... As to my insight into MS tracking everyone and everything you do online in Win8 and up, that simply is... (and of course they're not alone) And the violation is privacy. Many appreciate privacy, myself included But, as to my argument, and the main point I suppose, Industry tends to lead people by the nose, and whether it's new technology or new advertising trends identified more successful than another, the push to force planned obsolescence is ongoing is which AMD is complicit. ( and while you mention Intel doing the same, the article wasn't about Intel ) And the fact is, and why I've had to make this statement in this manner, it WILL cost them sales because all those concerned about privacy won't move to the newer platforms. So while this really gets into a much larger debate, as I stated the the article it is about AMD, their new processors and my statement is based on their choices of support.
As concerns AMD specifically, while the new processors may be "optimized for performance" in, let's say Win10", you need to realize that support for Win 7 is as simple as offering a driver to take advantage of as much of that optimization as possible, but their choice was "not to"... And therein lies the rub. Thus my argument, and AMD is complicit as stated. Further, I hope I helped to shed a little light in that your statement that, "Only people it will effect are businesses that haven't bothered updating old software" is quite inaccurate. A little research can go a long way.
Thank you for your time in choosing to comment on my post. Take care...
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,597 +5,227
Nice rant.... but you fail to grasp the point (yet you conveniently mentioned, then dismissed it)... People complaining that AMD is "short-sighted" because they are ignoring a large % of the marketplace - Windows 7... this is simply wrong....
You claim that people who are concerned about privacy won't upgrade to Windows 10.... can you provide ANY evidence for this? All signs have pointed to people upgrading to Windows 10 in droves - not as fast as MS wanted, but still in quite high numbers...
People say that since Windows 7 has 48% of the market (as of Dec 2016), clearly people prefer it to Windows 10.... but let's not forget that about 18 months before that, it's market share was 61%... a clear sign that it will decline more and more as the months and years go on... especially after it stops getting supported by more and more CPUs and other pieces of hardware...
So AMD might be complicit in planned obsolescence... SO WHAT?!?!?! Clearly MS, Intel and others are also complicit and that's just the way it is... life sometimes sucks... DEAL WITH IT...
Anyways, clearly AMD is NOT shortsighted - wasting time making their CPUs support Windows 7 WOULD be short-sighted, as clearly the future of anyone buying a NEW PC (the majority of boxes that will have a new Ryzen processor will be new) is with Windows 10.
What I continue to find fascinating on this (and other) tech sites, are people's assumptions that their own opinions are so obviously superior to the decisions of multi-billion dollar corporations... Do you honestly believe you are smarter than the collective minds of these companies? Do you think they make their decisions based on flipping a coin or consulting a Ouija board? Yes, they make mistakes - but generally those only become obvious in hindsight - and since Ryzen hasn't actually been released yet, I think it's a bit premature to criticize - unless you have solid evidence to bring to the table...
Raiderman
Posts: 68 +59
Keep drinking the Kool-aid kiddo. Multi billion dollar companies do NOT know what's best for me, obviously. They like to think they do, and if you continue to follow that moral in life, you will probably end up buying some beachfront land in Kansas. The evidence of windows 10, and it's privacy issues are all over the net, have you been under a rock? The amount of data that flows to MS has been well documented on several sites, and the EULA you agreed to when you installed that garbage states that it will collect personal data.
Like I said, YOU can keep drinking that wonderful Microsoft flavored Kool-aid, but for those of us that have been around long enough, we know what a true desktop OS should be, and it's not Windows 10.
Like I said, YOU can keep drinking that wonderful Microsoft flavored Kool-aid, but for those of us that have been around long enough, we know what a true desktop OS should be, and it's not Windows 10.
Thank you, I quite enjoyed it. And if you wish to state I'm wrong, maybe you should look at the numbers again. Win 7 was released in mid 2009 and maintains an almost 50% market share, for a 7 year old operating system. If you believe for a single moment that a 50% market share unaddressed by AMD won't affect their bottom line over the next year or 2, (and yes I'm factoring in the potential % decline), that's just nuts. And I can live with being that kind of wrong, but thanks for pointing it out.
https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0
(just as confirmation)
All signs? Really? Sure, I can quote many! Can I assume you know who and what the EFF is?
"The Electronic Frontier Foundation has accused Microsoft of disregarding user choice and privacy with Windows 10. In a scathing editorial, EFF employee Amul Kalia calls on Microsoft to "come clean with its user community" over a growing number of Windows 10 privacy concerns."
You can read the rest here: http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/22/12582622/eff-microsoft-windows-10-privacy-concerns
Or the source here:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/...-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-dive
And from TechRepublic: "Windows 10 violates your privacy by default, here's how you can protect yourself"
http://www.techrepublic.com/article...y-default-heres-how-you-can-protect-yourself/
From PCMag: "Microsoft Attempts to Assuage Windows 10 Privacy Concerns"
http://www.pcmag.com/news/350935/microsoft-attempts-to-assuage-windows-10-privacy-concerns
Redmond Magazine: "French Agency Cites Windows 10 Privacy Concerns" who goes on to state
"An agency in France wants Windows 10 to conform with the country's data privacy laws." citing that
- Windows 10's telemetry collects information that isn't necessary for the service, such as the information on the applications installed on a machine and the time spent using them
- Microsoft ties a personal identification number PIN to its Microsoft account, but PIN entry attempts aren't limited, which is insecure
- An "advertising ID" gets installed with Windows 10, which lets applications made by Microsoft or other software companies "monitor user browsing" and target users with ads, without consent
- Advertising cookies are placed on machines without consent
- Data get transferred to the United States following Safe Harbor rules, but that process is obsolete
"We asked, you answered. From legacy software to pure suspicion, the people speak about why they're staying right where they are, thank you."
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2952...ehard-users-refuse-to-move-to-windows-10.html
Just to name a couple credible sources... and their complaint just hits a few of the concerns, (facts). Not to mention the license which grants Microsoft unfettered access to your entire PC. And, of course, that's a hell of a statement for a 7 year old operating system
This all just scratches the surface and it goes on and on. So, I have to admit that I'm surprised that an "informed person" would ask. It's also interesting you ask me to provide evidence, which I have and can provide as much as you like. Yet you 'll make a statement like, "All signs have pointed to people upgrading to Windows 10 in droves - not as fast as MS wanted, but still in quite high numbers..." without offering what you're asking of me. That said, I'm more than happy to comply with your request, just thought it was worth mentioning.
And just for the record, let's look at the reason that such a statement may be considered at all...
From PCWORLD:
"Windows 10 sees its largest surge ever as Microsoft's forced-upgrade push rolls on"
read it here, among other places: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3077...-microsofts-forced-upgrade-push-rolls-on.html
And while we're on the topic, tell me please, what other MS operating system has Microsoft embraced such tactics to get it installed on PC's as they have with Win10, and why do you suppose that is?
But this is going to get old quick, so suffice it to say, yes most certainly I can
If you read the info provided above I think you'll find I've made my point on why they even hold the market share they do with Win10. You stated it as if people are running out to buy it, but that really isn't the truth, especially when you consider all the tactics MS has used to get it on peoples machines. And those numbers (you can look those up) just are... This should help to understand just exactly how MS has even gotten Win10 to its current marketshare. Recognizing all the methods they've used to do so can be enlightening.
For example: (necessary repeat)
PCWORLD: "Windows 10 sees its largest surge ever as Microsoft's forced-upgrade push rolls on"
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3077...-microsofts-forced-upgrade-push-rolls-on.html
My point stands. It isn't about life sucks, and I don't feel picked on or excluded from the game. It was simply an observation... But, thank you for the advice.
Yes, let's agree that it would be just crazy and foolish to support the widest base operating system in use on the planet... Let's just agree to disagree here. The numbers don't lie. But, as with all markets someone always claims a method to the madness. I choose to see it as short sighted. But ultimately, in the end the point is moot.
Man, is that ever a loaded question, lol... My observation was an opinion not a criticism, as I stand to lose or gain nothing. However, as this conversation has drifted toward Win10 as much as it has AMD, suffice it to say that I've had an opportunity to see MS on a level that most aren't privy too. Being an MCSE for several years and almost from the time of the programs inception I've had an opportunity to observe and work with MS fairly intimately. So I did gain some knowledge of how they operate on a few levels, influencing OE's etc.,at least historically.
As to AMD, one would think the math dictates you don't overlook a stab at that size marketshare without a reason. To that, I can't begin to claim knowledge. It simply seems short-sighted to me. That said, something obviously influenced the decision, since official support of Win 7 would have likely been a simple task. I mean, after all, its user base is only about the size of every other OS out there combined. But what the hell...
As much as I would have liked to delve into this a little more meticulously, it's late and the brain doesn't work nearly as well this time of day, lol.
I appreciate your feedback... It would be a boring world if all our opinions were the same
Last edited:
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,597 +5,227
The problem is, MARKETSHARE means people in the MARKET for a new CPU - this DOES NOT mean the total number of PC users - it means the amount of people buying NEW machines (the % of people who upgrade the CPU on an existing device and don't upgrade their OS is pretty much negligible). Since almost all machines come with - or WILL come with - Windows 10, the actual marketplace for Ryzen is almost exclusively Windows 10.
Again, nice rant - but you again ignore the actual point... I'm not arguing that Windows 10 is superior to Windows 7... I'm not arguing that Windows 10 may or may not expose your private information to MS and other companies....
The POINT is that, regardless of these practices, Windows 10 will be the primary OS on PCs that will have a Ryzen CPU inside them!!!! This is why AMD is ignoring Windows 7... not sure what's so hard to see here....
The problem here is that we're not really arguing.... the reason I didn't provide any "evidence" for my opinion is because it contains the same numbers you've already posted... I AGREE that Windows 7 has a 50% install base.... I simply disagree (and obviously so do Intel and AMD - so I'm in pretty good company!) that install base = marketshare!
Raiderman
Posts: 68 +59
I hope the sheep enjoy their new Ryzen or Kaby-Lake cpu on their soon to be pay to use, or pay to play, ported from MOBILE Operating System. I will enjoy it just fine on my Windows 7 installs, and I dont have to worry about a daily deluge of the Cortana VIRUS infesting, forced updating, pastel colored, privacy invading pile of complete garbage known as Windows 10.
However, when I think about it, maybe all these big multi billion dollar corporations do know what is best, and I will roll over, and stick my arse in the air, and say...."Here you go Microsoft, AMD, Intel, etc". Oh, and dont use any lube!
However, when I think about it, maybe all these big multi billion dollar corporations do know what is best, and I will roll over, and stick my arse in the air, and say...."Here you go Microsoft, AMD, Intel, etc". Oh, and dont use any lube!
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
Ford is losing boatloads of money on every electric vehicle sold- stewi0001 replied
