AMD will give Ryzen APU customers a free processor to help flash their firmware

[Cooe14]

Consumers will recommend a product that works out of the box over one that doesn't. This situation is not helping AMD. Period.

I'm sorry, but that's not even remotely freaking close to what's happening in actuality (at least according to every single article I've read on the subject so far), and you could easily figure that out for yourself by doing a quick Google search on the subject. This has been an "issue" inherent to existing board capable CPU launches for their entire history, and before one's only options were to buy/borrow & compatible CPU to update your board (what Intel tells people on the rare chance release new, socket compatible CPU's), or hit up the board manufacturer to have them send you a new pre-flashed BIOS chip for your to swap if your's in swappable (which not all are) or else they'll tell you you'ew SOL too.

This whole event is having quite the opposite effect actually. What would cause gripes among a very small few over a 1-3 week period and is promptly forgotten by the world at large is getting them a CRAP TON of good press & good will across the vast majority of the entire community for AMD's unprecedented CPU lending program (according to the comments pages I've all seen/Reddit/forums, etc...).

This vs the absolutely freaking minuscule by comparison number of people that will even end up in the described situation and have to do something about it, and the EVEN SMALLER number of those who decide to blame AMD for their non-AMD made board's software being out of date, instead of say the board maker for not supporting CPU-less BIOS updates on YOURS when all their nicer models do (or in ASRock's case, manufacturers do), OR the reseller for selling them an old board. With AMD offering people free damn CPU's to update with and press screaming that fact to the high heaven, no questions asked (along with almost all stating how normal this situation is whenever new CPU's, be them Intel or AMD + existing boards, but abnormal the above response is) they are the LAST target in that chain I'd imagine they're likely to "blame".

It's like everyone in this thread has forgetten every single prior time this happened, w/o free CPU's from the chip maker, and that's EXACTLY my point. The few people that run into problems end up getting it taken care of, and within a month at the latest all old stock is cleared out of the channel & you never hear about it again and everyone that didn't have to deal with it, forgets (and this time those people won't remember Intel telling them "Not our problem, contact your board maker ... Buuuut you can always BUY another CPU to do it with!!!" As has has always been the case before, but AMD shipping them & everyone else who needed a compatible upgrade CPU with no questions asked.)

 

[TheBigFatClown]

Only if it's from a new board shipment. If Newegg has had that particular board in it's warehouse for more than a month-ish otoh, it most likely won't. Right now? I'd say your odds are 70/30, safe/screwed; depending on how popular that particular board is. Sadly ASRock is like the only board company WITHOUT a CPU-less BIOS flashing feature on their mid-range & high end boards -_- (their equivalent "flash from BIOS" feature, "Instant Flash" is the only one that requires a compatible CPU in the socket). They'll mail you out a pre-flashed BIOS chip instead (BIOS chips are easily removeable/replacable with just a set of small plyers/big tweezers (or a legit chip puller, but no one has one of dem around hahaha), but at that point might as well get the CPU from AMD for the free AM4 heatsink hahaha.

Well, if by posting "Ryzen 2000 Ready" on their description page for the HDV-A320:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157766
they meant ready because they're the same AM4 sockets? I'm not going to be a happy camper, that I can tell you. I'll be having another chat with a NewEgg "specialist" tomorrow to confirm that this isn't the case. If it is, I'm cancelling my order for now.
I'm excited about what AMD has packed into their new chips but if I need to wait a few weeks for things to smooth out a bit, I have no problem with that.

 

[Cooe14]

Well, if by posting "Ryzen 2000 Ready" on their description page for the HDV-A320:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157766
they meant ready because they're the same AM4 sockets? I'm not going to be a happy camper, than tell you. I'll be having another chat with a NewEgg "specialist" tomorrow to confirm that this isn't the case. If it is, I'm cancelling my order for now.
I'm excited about what AMD has packed into their new chips but if I need to wait a few weeks for things to smooth out a bit, I have no problem with that.

If Newegg themselves is saying that, then yeah you're almost for sure right, as it'd most likely means it'll they know all their current stock is recent/ updated.

If it's ASRock saying that, and it doesn't come updated then that's 100% on them as "Ready" means what it sounds like. If they hadn't guaranteed compatible stock somehow they damn well should have said "compatible" or similar instead. Especially being the only manufacturer without ANY CPU-less BIOS update feature, even on their flagship models, which is really sad.

AMD's hands are totally tied as far as this whole situation is concerned, they got the RR code to board makers as super early as possible to get as much proliferation of updated boards as they could (whether the board makers quickly rolled those into a BIOS update for all their boards is something else entirely, with many getting love way early & some not only til just only barely) & is shipping out unprecedented update CPU's which is why I can't understand if that's where someone decides to place blame.
Intel just tells you it's not their fault, and to buy a new board/CPU, & that's the extent of their response. That's exactly why it's ALWAYS been good idea to wait a few weeks after a launch like this if you want a guaranteed plug & play experience (this isn't a new thing, but it's always over so fast & affects so few people in the big scheme of things [even the bigger Intel launches] that everyone quickly forgets it ever happened every time; the occasional person incredulous of how AMD could EVER POSSIBLY let something like this happen; like it's at all a unique occurrence, pretty much says it all), but at least you aren't boned if the board doesn't have an CPU-less update tool or removable BIOS chip like you'd have been any time like this before. AMD is going out of their way to make sure EVERY super early adopter can get their chip & board working without having to buy anything else. (And why the press & most people has raved about the action, with the few comments like those above, blaming AMD for it all, on all the major tech sites, the former FAR outweighs the latter though).

 

[Cooe14]

Well, if by posting "Ryzen 2000 Ready" on their description page for the HDV-A320:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157766
they meant ready because they're the same AM4 sockets? I'm not going to be a happy camper, that I can tell you. I'll be having another chat with a NewEgg "specialist" tomorrow to confirm that this isn't the case. If it is, I'm cancelling my order for now.
I'm excited about what AMD has packed into their new chips but if I need to wait a few weeks for things to smooth out a bit, I have no problem with that.

Actually, I just saw some Gigabyte board ad pics with a smattering of their Aorus boards and "Ryzen 2000 Ready" underneath it, and those are all previously existing boards with no way for if all the older ones pre-update had been cleared out of the channel or not.... Basically I think board makers are just using that "Ryzen 2000 Ready" adver-tag til X470/B450/A420 boards drop w/ Ryzen 2000 CPU's in April and they can start advertising those, so for these first few weeks of Raven Ridge, I imagine "Ryzen 2000 Ready" just means "Ryzen 2000 supported with the BIOS update which we're shipping out all new boards with". Whether the one you get from the warehouse is free or post update is likely just as random for a "Ryzen 2000 Ready" board as advertised by the maker as it is for any other AM4 board atm right now (with the latter growing likelier and likelier the further out we get).

Definitely see what the Newegg guy says/knows, but if you aren't willing to wait a bit, or have to wait on an AMD shipped CPU to update it, I'd see if said Newegg guy with the nicest voice you possibly can, if there's anyway they can check the manufacturing date (then just compare that date, to the date the RR supporting BIOS for that board went up for download on it's support page. If after, then you're G2G!, if before = no dice!), though if they have to open it up to find out, that'll mean they'll still have to ship that one to you regardless of the result. But then you could at least get the AMD sent CPU shipped out at the same time if it isn't; that way they show up together and getting it updated user side is as inconvenient as possible))

 

[GreenNova343]

Just as a clarification:

https://www.gigabyte.com/MicroSite/121/tech_qflash.htm

QFlash does not allow you to update the BIOS without a CPU...just update the BIOS without going into the OS. You still have to be able to POST, which is no different than the standard method for updating BIOS that has been around for years.

Also...if you look at the user manuals for a lot of those ASUS motherboards, you'll find that the actual number that support "BIOS Flashback" don't necessarily meet the definition of "many"... perhaps the definition of "some", since it seems to be limited to their ROG lineups & a handful of the top-line motherboards (I.e. their X399-A motherboard for AMD's Threadripper has the BIOS Flashback option, but the Prime X370-PRO for Ryzen does not).

But hey, all I did was RTM & check the manufacturer websites, so I must be doing something wrong...

 

[Cooe14]

Well I'll be darned. It's not anywhere near as common as Asus would like you to think it seems (I just assumed because they tell you Flashback = no CPU needed, and then advertise it's support on all sorts of models, which was my bad it seems lol. Gotta love the PC industry's shady advertising!). Thanks for the info! And really? Could have sworn QFlash on the high end models had CPU-less flash support (already knew the cheaper ones didn't), but if that's the case as well, tis a bummer. Well, if it's not possible with Ryzen I wonder if it's because it's an SOC with the chipset largely a dumb PCIe switch & I/O chip vs the Intel chips much more complex & powerful PCH (Platform Controller Hub) with a lot of the stuff Ryzen has on die, moved off chip into it. I.e. maybe the PCH has some needed stuff to be able to run a BIOS flash that's missing on a CPU-less AM4 board. That's just a total guess in the dark though hahaha.

 

[GreenNova343]

Might be available on them, I just know that on my particular model (990FXA-UD3 v4.0) it doesn't work that way.

To be honest, I think it's a brilliant idea to have this kind of feature. Even though you technically still need another PC to download the BIOS file in the first place, it still means you don't have to worry about having an older CPU installed on the motherboard to flash it.

Unfortunately, when it comes down to it, all AMD (& even Intel) are required to do is inform their partners when they've made changes to CPU versions that would require BIOS updates, & what those changes are so that the partners can make any necessary changes to the BIOS. The actual editing/updating of the BIOS has to be up to the individual vendor. It's not like, for example, you can take a Gigabyte BIOS & make it work on an ASRock board; even if both boards have the same generic chipset model & similar controller chips, there're enough differences in how they're implemented that each one is unique. Heck, the vendors don't even have a "generic" BIOS that they use for every board with the same chipset, let alone an overall "generic". Just 1 of the joys of PC ownership...

 

[ewitte12]

Except this isn't an issue with using old chips. It's an issue with FIRST GEN AM4 APU's DESIGNED for FIRST GEN AM4 motherboards that should have support out of the box on day one. This is simply AMD dropping the ball yet again with a Ryzen chip. The first was/still is the poor memory support.

And THAT my friend, is why Intel and NVIDIA are big dogs, and further proves it can pay off to pay a little more for a stable product. Waiting months for proper drivers and hardware support and optimizations are not acceptable to the majority of people. It's simply common sense that consumers shouldn't be inconvenienced like this.

TL;DR
Techies have patience. The remaining 80% of consumers don't.
Products that work out of the box will be recommended over ones that don't.
#commonsenseworks

The APUs DID NOT EXIST when your board vendor put out that board. It should be common sense you need to update the BIOS or get a board that has the sticker on the box saying it has been pre-flashed. Consumers that can't understand general logic for a motherboard should probably just buy pre-built or Intel which gets around it by REQUIRING YOU TO BUY A NEW BOARD.

 

[TheBigFatClown]

If Newegg themselves is saying that, then yeah you're almost for sure right, as it'd most likely means it'll they know all their current stock is recent/ updated.

If it's ASRock saying that, and it doesn't come updated then that's 100% on them as "Ready" means what it sounds like. If they hadn't guaranteed compatible stock somehow they damn well should have said "compatible" or similar instead. Especially being the only manufacturer without ANY CPU-less BIOS update feature, even on their flagship models, which is really sad.

AMD's hands are totally tied as far as this whole situation is concerned, they got the RR code to board makers as super early as possible to get as much proliferation of updated boards as they could (whether the board makers quickly rolled those into a BIOS update for all their boards is something else entirely, with many getting love way early & some not only til just only barely) & is shipping out unprecedented update CPU's which is why I can't understand if that's where someone decides to place blame.
Intel just tells you it's not their fault, and to buy a new board/CPU, & that's the extent of their response. That's exactly why it's ALWAYS been good idea to wait a few weeks after a launch like this if you want a guaranteed plug & play experience (this isn't a new thing, but it's always over so fast & affects so few people in the big scheme of things [even the bigger Intel launches] that everyone quickly forgets it ever happened every time; the occasional person incredulous of how AMD could EVER POSSIBLY let something like this happen; like it's at all a unique occurrence, pretty much says it all), but at least you aren't boned if the board doesn't have an CPU-less update tool or removable BIOS chip like you'd have been any time like this before. AMD is going out of their way to make sure EVERY super early adopter can get their chip & board working without having to buy anything else. (And why the press & most people has raved about the action, with the few comments like those above, blaming AMD for it all, on all the major tech sites, the former FAR outweighs the latter though).

I spoke with a NewEgg "specialist" again today. They "would NOT" guarantee that the "combo" that I purchased would work together OOTB. I'm not sure I understand the decision to sell a combo, that your company handpicked, to consumers if you haven't verified in advance that they are guaranteed to work together. That just seems like a poor business decision. I asked to cancel my order for now so I have a decision to make. I should have researched this more. But what's even worse, is that they can't say one way or the other, "Yes, you will need to flash the BIOS". Or, "No, you're good to go". How hard would it be to answer that question for your customers if you had somebody at NewEgg who cared to answer that question? I even asked if they could tell me the manufacturing date of the board they shipped like you suggested. They couldn't. Or just maybe, they "wouldn't"? Bwah, ah, ah, ah!

 

[BobHome]

Would make more sense to make USB bios updating sans CPU standard on motherboards.

Um, that would be like removing a person's brain and asking them to answer a question. You know, since the CPU is the 'brain' of the computer.
(and I can already hear the zingers coming)

 

[TheBigFatClown]

Um, that would be like removing a person's brain and asking them to answer a question. You know, since the CPU is the 'brain' of the computer.
(and I can already hear the zingers coming)

I'm kind of split on that new CPUless BIOS Flash upgrade technology. It's probably great for techies but having to flash a BIOS on a motherboard that you just take out of a box is kind of depressing. If you bought an AMD 4 motherboard in the past you probably got a CPU with it that you can use to update the BIOS before you replace your new chip. So, the feature seems to be for a very small niche group of people. It's a feature probably used once in a lifetime. I kind of see Intels side of this whole issue now. You have people banging on AMD as a worthless company for putting consumers through stuff like this. Keeping the same motherboard between CPU generations is like the sun shining on Rocky's face. It's both good and bad.
Intel's reputation has already been damaged pretty bad lately. If they allowed people to keep the same motherboard between generations people would start banging on them for these issues also. This is probably why they force upgrades even between pin-compatible, power-compatible CPUs.