Apple has published their email war with Epic CEO Tim Sweeney

I am not sure where I came across it, your right, if it's on Apple's website, they make it very difficult to find, but as Frosty was saying, I was able to find reference to it on the WAN show - here is the link with a timestamp
If I have another minute to look around I'll try to find a better source, but I had never watched this video - and had heard about this somewhere before.

It's not just about the storefront though, it can't be higher than your website. Citation needed - I guess.
Thanks for the info! I'll be very shocked if this is the case though. That's a bit like Tesco's telling all the different toothpaste manufacturers that they can't charge more at Tesco's than they do on Amazon. The EU would have been all over this I would have thought.

If legit this is a rule Apple put in though, I hope they get sued off this planet, what an absolutely garbage rule which I'm surprised is even legal.
 
Apple hold a 45% share of the smartphone industry I believe.

40% in US and about 12-20% worldwide (which shows how biased US market is). Apple is one of the worst companies in tech, especially their durability and their unofficial repair and user freedom.

Normally I would agree with you, if there was a LEGAL way to install any app without the Apple market. Sadly there isn't, so this make it a monopoly.
Basically apple build a gate, and made it in a way, that only they allow apps thru this gate, in the way they see fit, so basically you buy a piece of hardware, but the usage is dictated not by you, but by Apple, and this is text book monopoly.
 
Oh of course, the emails won’t determine what the judges think. Well unless you have a very creative legal team.

Apple hold a 45% share of the smartphone industry I believe. I imagine any lawyer is going to have a hard time proving to a judge that this is a monopoly. I think Apple are fair to charge what they do, they built the App Store, they attract the users who spend the most. They update it and they also take some responsibility for when there are problems with apps. They keep that platform premium.

Epic want to do to iOS what they did to Windows. Build a shop within that operating system and pay nothing to the platform owner. That’s fine on Windows, it’s normal. But not on iOS.
Apple has more likely a 25% of market share, far from being monopolist.
And do not forget Google removed the app from the play store too...

So Epic is suing TWO different rival companies for being monopolist ? That makes no sense at all
 
Antitrust lawsuits concerns a nation's rules, not the world. If the lawsuit is in the US, it's all about US market access.
No. For the DOJ to bring a Sec. 2 Sherman Act violation, they must establish what the relevant geographic market is, which can and has been a single U.S. city, the nation at large, or the entire world. The presumption is the entire market in which the entity does business. If the DOJ wishes to argue for a tighter restriction, they must do so based on factors such as geographic barriers, transportation costs, consumer ability to purchase outside their defined area, etc.

In the case of cell phones, in which any US consumer can easily purchase and use any phone produced or sold globally, with little overhead in transport costs compared to the cost of the phone itself, the DOJ would have a great deal of difficulty in convincing any federal judge that Apple's market share should be restricted to the US itself, especially since Apple's pricing model is as high or even higher in markets where it has less market share. This is a primary prong often used to disprove that a company has the ability to exert monopoly control over price.
 
40% in US and about 12-20% worldwide (which shows how biased US market is). Apple is one of the worst companies in tech, especially their durability and their unofficial repair and user freedom.

Normally I would agree with you, if there was a LEGAL way to install any app without the Apple market. Sadly there isn't, so this make it a monopoly.
Basically apple build a gate, and made it in a way, that only they allow apps thru this gate, in the way they see fit, so basically you buy a piece of hardware, but the usage is dictated not by you, but by Apple, and this is text book monopoly.
You are incorrect. It’s perfectly legal for a user to install anything they like on the iPhone. You can’t be arrested for jail breaking your iPhone. You will void your warranty and you will no longer be able to get support from Apple if you choose to do this, this is not the same as “illegal”.

Personally, I like Apple, I appreciate the better quality of experience that comes from being in a walled garden. Currently they are way ahead of everyone in the mobile space. However if I didn’t like it I can either jailbreak or buy Android. This means Apple don’t have a monopoly, I as a consumer have a choice between more than just Apple.
 
You are incorrect. It’s perfectly legal for a user to install anything they like on the iPhone. You can’t be arrested for jail breaking your iPhone. You will void your warranty and you will no longer be able to get support from Apple if you choose to do this, this is not the same as “illegal”.

Personally, I like Apple, I appreciate the better quality of experience that comes from being in a walled garden. Currently they are way ahead of everyone in the mobile space. However if I didn’t like it I can either jailbreak or buy Android. This means Apple don’t have a monopoly, I as a consumer have a choice between more than just Apple.
It sucks for someone with an iPhone trying to play this game. They can switch to a superior platform such as Android but it's not free. Who's gonna buy a new phone just to play one game?
 
It sucks for someone with an iPhone trying to play this game. They can switch to a superior platform such as Android but it's not free. Who's gonna buy a new phone just to play one game?
Android a superior platform ? In which parallel dimension ?

btw in case you didn’t notice, it was banned from the Play Store too...
 
You are incorrect. It’s perfectly legal for a user to install anything they like on the iPhone. You can’t be arrested for jail breaking your iPhone. You will void your warranty and you will no longer be able to get support from Apple if you choose to do this, this is not the same as “illegal”.

Personally, I like Apple, I appreciate the better quality of experience that comes from being in a walled garden. Currently they are way ahead of everyone in the mobile space. However if I didn’t like it I can either jailbreak or buy Android. This means Apple don’t have a monopoly, I as a consumer have a choice between more than just Apple.
Jail braking, while technically is "Legal", is most surely not the normal way to use your device, so yeah I'm still correct and Apple is still monopoly in the Apple ecosystem. As EU person, soon apple will find this ruled by the court in EU, the same way they found out about charging ports in EU.
They are not way ahead of anyone in the mobile space, the only thing that they are really ahead is the mobile CPU performance and that's it, there isn't a single thing that other smartphones can't do, not a single one. Just name one thing that Apple can do and others can't :) (and do your research before trying to guess). Further more, Apple don't even offer their products in my language, not to mention voice recognition and things like that, while android does. Tell me again how their experience is better, when they can't even offer their product in native language.
Also Apple higher quality is a myth (maybe valid 15 years ago), I guess you don't watch much of a Louis Rossmann YouTube channel, where you can clearly see what dung **** apple actually is in terms of quality.
However, in one thing Apple is the best - Marketing and fan boy-sm, I can't deny, no one can even come close. Also they are innovative company and they create things this is also true. However this company is build to rip off technically illiterate users.

I agree that some users prefer walled gardens and it might be even better for them, however I will ask, where are the power user products from apple? They don't exist, as apple relay on mostly illiterate users who buy their marketing and prestige. Without Steve, apple will slowly decay, just observe.
 
Jail braking, while technically is "Legal", is most surely not the normal way to use your device, so yeah I'm still correct and Apple is still monopoly in the Apple ecosystem. As EU person, soon apple will find this ruled by the court in EU, the same way they found out about charging ports in EU.
They are not way ahead of anyone in the mobile space, the only thing that they are really ahead is the mobile CPU performance and that's it, there isn't a single thing that other smartphones can't do, not a single one. Just name one thing that Apple can do and others can't :) (and do your research before trying to guess). Further more, Apple don't even offer their products in my language, not to mention voice recognition and things like that, while android does. Tell me again how their experience is better, when they can't even offer their product in native language.
Also Apple higher quality is a myth (maybe valid 15 years ago), I guess you don't watch much of a Louis Rossmann YouTube channel, where you can clearly see what dung **** apple actually is in terms of quality.
However, in one thing Apple is the best - Marketing and fan boy-sm, I can't deny, no one can even come close. Also they are innovative company and they create things this is also true. However this company is build to rip off technically illiterate users.

I agree that some users prefer walled gardens and it might be even better for them, however I will ask, where are the power user products from apple? They don't exist, as apple relay on mostly illiterate users who buy their marketing and prestige. Without Steve, apple will slowly decay, just observe.
What a collection of bs you made here...
Apple know a thing other don’t : coherence.
Without Steve Apple grow 10X in the last years.

power users? Apps are usually better refined in iOS.
 
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I'm still correct and Apple is still monopoly in the Apple ecosystem.
Every company is a monopoly in the context of their own product. Wrigley has a monopoly on Skittles: you want Skittles, you deal with them. Audi has a monopoly on Audi cars, Adidas a monopoly on their brand of tennis shoes, and Justin Bieber has a monopoly on Justin Bieber tunes (for that I suppose we should all be grateful). Luckily, the legal system defines monopoly in a more sane manner.
 
Every company is a monopoly in the context of their own product. Wrigley has a monopoly on Skittles: you want Skittles, you deal with them. Audi has a monopoly on Audi cars
No they don't. They only have a monopoly on their IP, but can not limit how their products are used or who's supplying part or providing services to them. For ex. anyone can manufacture replacement or additional parts to Audi cars, without the permission of Audi, if they don't infringe on Audi's IP. Like they can not put an Audi logo on their parts and can't even use the Audi brand name to advertise it. Similarly anyone can service Audi cars, and that even without voiding the warranty on those.

Apple, on the other side wants to and does forcefully restrict this. They do not allow anyone to provide replacement or additional "parts" (apps) to their products, without their permission. And they only give permission to those who do not want to compete with Apple, for the benefit of consumers.

That's why this is an issue where Apple will have it's kicked by competition law litigations, and rightly so. It's absolutely not in the interest of consumers to be forcefully restricted to one supplier of parts and services for the products they buy.
 
They only have a monopoly on their IP, but can not limit how their products are used or who's supplying part or providing services to them. Apple, on the other side wants to restrict this.
Again, this is false. Apple doesn't restrict you from buying parts or services for your iPhone, or from installing whatever software you wish on it. They simply refuse to aid you in the process. A critical distinction.

It's absolute not in the interest of the consumers to be forcefully restricted to one supplier of parts and services for the products they buy.
Wrong, for at least two reasons. Firstly and most generally, economics has shown us that allowing sellers latitude to produce, sell, and manage their products with the same degree of freedom that buyers have in choosing them is beneficial to all parties. Apple would also argue -- with at least some degree of veracity -- that by restricting the content of apps which appear in their store, their customers receive the additional benefits of security and stability in using their phones.
 
"Normally I would agree with you, if there was a LEGAL way to install any app without the Apple market. Sadly there isn't, so this make it a monopoly."
You are incorrect. It’s perfectly legal for a user to install anything they like on the iPhone. You can’t be arrested for jail breaking your iPhone.
Yes, you can be arrested for that. That's, because in order to jailbreak the phone you have to circumvent Apple's digital rights protection mechanism, which a crime in itself (see DMCA Sec. 1201). So, no, currently there's no legal way for the average consumer to put apps on their phones other than those explicitly approved by Apple and offered through their App Store.
 
Yes, you can be arrested for that. That's, because in order to jailbreak the phone you have to circumvent Apple's digital rights protection mechanism, which a crime in itself (see DMCA Sec. 1201).
Since 2018, there has been a specific exemption to jailbreaking in the DMCA. Jailbreaking is fully legal.
 
Yes, you can be arrested for that. That's, because in order to jailbreak the phone you have to circumvent Apple's digital rights protection mechanism, which a crime in itself (see DMCA Sec. 1201). So, no, currently there's no legal way for the average consumer to put apps on their phones other than those explicitly approved by Apple and offered through their App Store.
No you definitely cannot be arrested for jailbreaking an iPhone.


I’m bewildered that people genuinely think you can be arrested for this. You think Apple will be phoning your local PD when you jailbreak your iPhone to have you arrested? That’s genuinely hilarious! Next Youl be telling me 5G causes COVID19!
 
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Jail braking, while technically is "Legal", is most surely not the normal way to use your device, so yeah I'm still correct and Apple is still monopoly in the Apple ecosystem. As EU person, soon apple will find this ruled by the court in EU, the same way they found out about charging ports in EU.
They are not way ahead of anyone in the mobile space, the only thing that they are really ahead is the mobile CPU performance and that's it, there isn't a single thing that other smartphones can't do, not a single one. Just name one thing that Apple can do and others can't :) (and do your research before trying to guess). Further more, Apple don't even offer their products in my language, not to mention voice recognition and things like that, while android does. Tell me again how their experience is better, when they can't even offer their product in native language.
Also Apple higher quality is a myth (maybe valid 15 years ago), I guess you don't watch much of a Louis Rossmann YouTube channel, where you can clearly see what dung **** apple actually is in terms of quality.
However, in one thing Apple is the best - Marketing and fan boy-sm, I can't deny, no one can even come close. Also they are innovative company and they create things this is also true. However this company is build to rip off technically illiterate users.

I agree that some users prefer walled gardens and it might be even better for them, however I will ask, where are the power user products from apple? They don't exist, as apple relay on mostly illiterate users who buy their marketing and prestige. Without Steve, apple will slowly decay, just observe.
iPhones are for power users. They basically humiliate the competition currently. They are faster, they have more apps, better photo and video capability, they are far more secure, they are built better and they get far far longer support. They also carry their value much better than Android phones do. I spend less on my iphones than those who buy Galaxy phones as when it comes to resale they fetch far more. I hugely prefer them to Android currently, it hasn’t always been the case though. I do know a thing or two about phones being a telephony engineer.

I respect that Apple want to keep their operating system locked down and an very happy with the way it behaves so I would not like some judge to order them to allow third party corporations like Epic games to start setting their own standards within the OS.

Currently I can choose not to buy an iPhone or choose to install my own software on one. As these are viable options then its difficult to claim that Apple has a monopoly.

Can anyone tell me who exactly is forced to use Apple?
 
You lost me here LOL. Apparently, you have no clue what Power user is. Good day :)
My previous role at the company I work for involved providing a range of mobile devices and services for all members of corporate clients. I definitely have a better idea of users needs than most and certainly a better idea than you do.

iPhones are easily the best phones around at the moment. Especially for power users. Unless you require software functionality which exists outside of iOS or you need a rugged device for users who are more prone to damage devices (field engineers etc) then iPhones are the best. All our clients execs get iPhones, however that is their choice. I would also say there’s a clear trend that the more technical depts within corporations tend to choose iPhones.
 
My previous role at the company I work for involved providing a range of mobile devices and services for all members of corporate clients. I definitely have a better idea of users needs than most and certainly a better idea than you do.

Its funny how you show your lack of clear judgment even when you clearly don't have enough information. For example, you don't know anything about me, anything at all, but you think you have better idea based on what? LOL.
I'm mobile app developer studio owner with over 50 employees, and we have developed over 500 mobile apps both for Android and IOS, with over 80 million users worldwide, and on couple of occasions, we have worked together with Apple and Google on solving technical issues, hek I can even bet that you are using some of our apps, but you know better, based on your fortune telling ball :D
 
Navuho and Shadowboxer, please discontinue your personal argument in this thread. If you feel the need, continue it via PM. Thank you.
 
No you definitely cannot be arrested for jailbreaking an iPhone.
Yes you can. And the article you linked confirms that. It links to the iOS jailbreaking page on Wikipedia, which explicitly confirms that jailbreaking IS a crime on the grounds I've explained in my previous comment, in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, etc. If you post a link, at least bother to read it first!
 
Yes you can. And the article you linked confirms that. It links to the iOS jailbreaking page on Wikipedia, which explicitly confirms that jailbreaking IS a crime on the grounds I've explained in my previous comment, in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, etc. If you post a link, at least bother to read it first!
The Wikipedia article says no such thing. Did you even read it? Unless you're jailbreaking a phone specifically for the purpose of copyright infringement, it's fully legal.
 
iPhones are for power users. They basically humiliate the competition currently. They are faster, they have more apps, better photo and video capability, they are far more secure, they are built better and they get far far longer support.
In 2019 Apple patched 185 CVEs (Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures) in iPhones, an increase from 120 during the same timeframe last year. Some 62% of the CVEs were considered "critical" security risks, while 25% were considered moderate risk, and 13% were considered low risk.

Also in 2020 there were already 2 unpatchable vulnerabilities discovered in iPhones, which allow hackers to not only plant spyware on any iPhone, but also steal all the information stored on them, even if it was stored in encrypted from, including not only personal data, but also credit card, banking and logon information.

:mic drop:
 
The Wikipedia article says no such thing.
IT DOES. Read it, damn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_jailbreaking#Legality

Unless you're jailbreaking a phone specifically for the purpose of copyright infringement, it's fully legal.
No, it's not, because - as already explained - the pre-requisite for any jailbreak is the circumvention of Apple's DRM system, which by itself is a crime and the violation of the laws listed in the linked Wikipedia article. Also, modifying a software, reverse engineering a software or copying a software, without the permission of the author is considered a copyright crime in most jurisdictions, which again, make it illegal to for ex. create, distribute and run modified versions of operating system / firmware software, even if other laws are not broken. Like you could run a free operating system on a jailbroken phone, but not a modified version of the original proprietary OS, because that, again, is a copyright violation on its own, which btw also voids all exemptions that might allow you to do something as long as it's not also a copyright violation.
 
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