TechSpot

Bigger Bottleneck

By swker98
Jun 26, 2006
  1. Im wodnering that would be a better upgrade for about $250 or so
    what is the bigger bottleneck the 3000+ or the x800gt (500\1000 8 pipes)

    an x2 4600+ or a 7900gt with evags step up program


    thanks guys
     
  2. swker98

    swker98 TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,348

    any input is apprecated :bounce:
     
  3. CrossFire851

    CrossFire851 TS Rookie Posts: 1,058

    Can you do a little overclocking on you 3000 to get it to 3200 speeds, because that is your curent bottleneck. Then you can get your 7900GT.
     
  4. swker98

    swker98 TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,348

    ive never really overlcoked although ive got good ram (ocz platuinm 2-3-2-5)

    anyone ever used the evga step up program before

    ive heard its good
     
  5. tipstir

    tipstir TS Ambassador Posts: 4,683   +86

    Overclock that AMD CPU? What you got though? AMD64 or AMD32?
     
  6. swker98

    swker98 TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,348

    A64 s939
    on a chentech vnf 4 ultra
     
  7. tipstir

    tipstir TS Ambassador Posts: 4,683   +86

    What's the speed of your system reported by Windows right now?
    Control Panel (System)
     
  8. swker98

    swker98 TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,348

    1.8ghz this is normal for the 3000+
     
  9. tipstir

    tipstir TS Ambassador Posts: 4,683   +86

    You should be able to get 2.4GHz which is stable. More like what 3400+ Would be:

    Do this in the BIOS,

    Firstly you need to make sure you have good memory (PC3200/DDR400),
    Secondly make sure that your mobo can lock' the PCI/AGP clock!
    Thirdly make sure you can lower the HTT multi to 3x.

    If you have all the above in place then you should be able to push your AMD to 255x8 (2040) that's a 440Mhz

    Ok, here's what you do.
    1) Lower your HT Multi to 3x
    2) Change your ht/mem divider to 166 (slow your mem clock)
    3) Increase your HT clock to 240 (boot and check stability)
    4) If Point 3 is successfull then increase HT clock by 5Mhz (boot and test)
    5) Repeat step 4 until you get instability or you max your Ht clock

    If you get instability after you get to 240 it's probably because your motherboard doesn't lock the PCI/AGP clock and everytime you increase your HT clock you increase your PCI/AGP clock mad.gif
    Your PCI should be @ 33.3 Mhz and your AGP should be @ 66.6 Mhz, you should be able to check them using 'clockgen' (make sure you d'load the correct one for your mobo)

    In your case you might be able to get more speed, but if you try to go more you might not be able to boot-up the system. To get back to normal you would need to clear the CMOS or remove the system clock battery and wait 10 secs.

    I've went from 1.6GHz to 2.4GHz and you'll notice a huge difference. Now if you have RAID SATA drives then don't bother to overclock the system. That tends to be more of problem to do. It could be done but more effort..
     
  10. KingCody

    KingCody TS Guru Posts: 1,568   +7

    actually a venice running at 2.4GHz would be a 3800+

    the VNF4-ultra (if you couldn't guess from the name) has the NForce4 ultra chipset. it should have all the above stated settings and locks.

    however I think you oversimplified the overclocking process to somebody who's never overclocked before. it also would appear that all the numbers you are using would apply to a socket-754 processor and not a socket-939 processor (939's are faster even within the same PR rating)

    the numbers you suggested would actually bottleneck his system even more. you suggested 255x8 which is ok, but there's no reason he can't leave the CPU multiplier at it's stock value of 9 which would give him 2295MHz instead. but the real bottleneck would be the lowering of the HTT multiplier all the way down to 3. (255x3=765MHz)... this would actually underclock the system by 235MHz :eek: the HTT multi should be lowered from it's stock value of 5 down to 4, resulting in a 1020MHz HTT BUS.

    like I said earlier, your numbers are good for a socket-754, but would and up underclocking a socket-939.

    cheers :)
     
  11. swker98

    swker98 TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,348

    isnt the hyper transport 2000 whith makes the fsb 1000mhz am i right

    so dont i want to push the ram to aobut 250mhz (its ddr 400 so i might need to losein the timeings)

    but what i get confued aobut is what to set the HTT to like i bump the ram up by 5mhz a time using clock gen and test prime 95 for a half hour then push it higher then by 5mhz and repeat i(read it on toms Hardware guide fourmz, but i forget who theperson who made it is)

    then after i monitor the temps or i feal that it is high enoph then i run prime 95 for 24 hours and make sure its stabble

    does my mobo have a pci and agp lcok ??

    also i dont wanna burn my ram
     
     
  12. KingCody

    KingCody TS Guru Posts: 1,568   +7

    no. the actual hypertransport speed is 1000MHz, because of DDR (double data rate) the effective speed is 2000MHz. this effective speed is refered to as M/T (mega transfers). the mega transfers will always be double whatever the hypertransport is set to. hopefully i explained it well enough :rolleyes:

    there is no FSB on an Athlon64. because the hypertransport BUS directly connects the CPU to memory, there is no need for a front side bus. your mobo may still call the system bus a FSB, they do that as a reference only.

    the system BUS (or FSB) controls all other speeds
    BUS x CPU-multiplier = CPU clock speed
    BUS x HTT-multiplier = hypertransport speed
    CPU clockspeed / (divide by) RAM divider = memory speed

    to keep your RAM running at 200MHz (PC3200/DDR400), you need to set a memory divider based on the CPU clock speed. for example, if you overclock your CPU to 2.4GHz, you would use a divider of 12 to run the RAM at 200MHz . if you overclock to 2.3GHz, you would use a divider of 11 to run the RAM at 209MHz (which is close enough to not cause any stabilty issues)

    as far as your PCI locks go, some BIOSes keep the PCI/PCI-e bus locked at default speeds unless you manualy change it. other BIOSes ask whether to run the PCI/PCI-e bus "sync" or "async", in this case you would want "async" which overclocks independant of the PCI/PCI-e bus. either way i'm sure your board has it.
     
  13. tipstir

    tipstir TS Ambassador Posts: 4,683   +86

    You might have to change that stock fan also if you start going up beyond 2GHz. Those specs I gave were for 754, I didn't see you had 939 MOBO... But you get the idea of what to do though...
     
  14. KingCody

    KingCody TS Guru Posts: 1,568   +7

    the socket-939 venice processors run very cool.

    I use water cooling for silencing purposes, but I have overclocked my 3000+ to 2.4GHz on stock air cooling, and never went above 35c idle and 45c at full load.

    I currently have my socket-939 venice 3000+ overclocked to 2.5GHz with the RAM running at 227MHz (BUS@278 x MULTI@9 = 2502MHz / RAM-DIVIDER@11 = 227.45MHz VCORE=1.48V)

    i'm not telling you to use those numbers, but they work for me. your's may go higher or lower, each CPU is different. and your memory also has a limit as to how fast it will run as well.
     
  15. swker98

    swker98 TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,348

    someone explane the ram divider and htt divider again
    i need some # examples and google doent work 2 well wit hthis stuff ;)
     
  16. KingCody

    KingCody TS Guru Posts: 1,568   +7

    it can be a little confusing at first, especially with athlon64's.
    I'll use the numbers that I posted above as your example:
    ... now lets break it down

    BUS@278 <--- this is the system BUS (or FSB) speed, this is your motherboard speed

    CPU MULTI@9 <--- this is what determines the CPU clock speed based on your BUS speed. since I have set the system BUS at 278MHz, with a multiplier of 9, we end up with a CPU clock speed of 2502MHz (2.5GHz)

    HTT MULTI@3.5 <--- (this setting wasn't in the above example) this is what determines your hypertransport link speed. it works exactly the same as the CPU multi. since I have the system BUS at 278MHz, with a multiplier of 3.5, we end up with a HTT link speed of 973MHz. this setting is important, you want to keep the HTT as close to 1000MHz as possible without going over. you may be able to go a little higher, but chances are you'll have problems above 1000MHz

    RAM DIVIDER@11 <--- without this setting, your RAM will run at the system BUS speed. your RAM may run at this speed, mine wont so I need to bring the speed back down. once you have set your CPU clockspeed, you then set a memory divider to lower the RAM speed. since my CPU is running at 2502MHz, I use a memory divider of 11 to bring the RAM down to 227MHz

    VCORE@1.48v <--- you may or may not have to increase the voltage. be careful with this setting because this is how you could fry a component. raise it only if needed to stabilize the overclock, raise it in the smallest increments possible.

    the basic idea is to overclock as high as you can before the system refuses to boot, then back it down a bit, run some tests to verify its stabilty. if it passes then all is good, if it fails then try to increase the voltage a little bit to see if it stabilizes the overclock.
     
  17. sjps220

    sjps220 TS Rookie Posts: 129

    sorry to go backwards in the discussion here, but you asked if anyone has gone through a step up with EVGA, and I haven't, but I just wanted to say that I just did an RMA with them and they were great. Extremely helpful and I'm completely satisfied.
     
  18. KingCody

    KingCody TS Guru Posts: 1,568   +7

    are you their new PR rep? haha :D
     
  19. CrossFire851

    CrossFire851 TS Rookie Posts: 1,058

    Here is an easy first time overclock. (yes I know I will be cirtized about this, but oh well.) Increase the "System BUS" from 200 to 205, and set the Vcore to 1.4

    F10 it and boot.
     
  20. KingCody

    KingCody TS Guru Posts: 1,568   +7

    there is nothing wrong with starting off slow (such as a tiny little 45MHz overclock :))

    but there would be no need whatsoever to touch the voltage for such a small overclock. (and by the way, 1.4v is the default voltage ;))
    .
     
  21. CrossFire851

    CrossFire851 TS Rookie Posts: 1,058

    939 stock voltage is 1.3v.
     
  22. swker98

    swker98 TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,348

    thanks for all of the replys guys
     
  23. KingCody

    KingCody TS Guru Posts: 1,568   +7

    I don't know where you are getting your information from, but it is simply wrong. there is no generic default voltage. it depends on the processor model.

    the socket-939 venice 3000+ has a default voltage of 1.4v.

    I have this processor myself, so I have first hand experience with it.

    anyways... swanker. do you understand it better now?? is there anything else you wish to know?
     
  24. CrossFire851

    CrossFire851 TS Rookie Posts: 1,058

    well anywhere from 1.35v - 1.4v.
     
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