Eist, Intel Turbo Boost and Intel Speed Shift

[texasrattler]

I am wondering how many pc gamers have disabled these options. While I have known about these, I dont regularly mess with them. In the past I have overclocked but currently I am not. The reason for me asking is gaming related. Warzone at times can be a mess, most know this. I am just looking for the best stability for my PC.
Since disabling, I noticed my system feels more responsive but could just be placebo. Going to be playing Warzone and see if there is much of a difference or not.

Please comment, share any advice or your own findings.

My System:
Windows 11 Pro
I7 9700K
32GB
GTX 1070 FTW
MSI Z390 mobo
Corsair CM850x psu
Using a Corsair AIO

I am using Extreme Memory in the bios. Other than that, everything else default. Except for 3 the options above that I have turned off.

 

[neeyik]

The impact of disabling Speed Shift, Enhanced Intel Speed Step (EIST), and Turbo Boost is very much dependent on the motherboard and what it does when these are disabled. EIST and SS are linked together, and actively change the clock frequencies, voltages, and power limits depending on the CPU load -- switching these off should, in theory, mean that the processor doesn't lower these values.

So one might find that the CPU runs at maximum clocks all the time, or maybe not -- it's partly down to whether the motherboard manufacturer overrides Intel's default behaviors in the BIOS. A simple way of checking is to use something like HWInfo64 to monitor the clocks and voltages with the settings on and then off.

The same is true of Turbo Boost -- typically this is enabled by default, as it lets the CPU reach its highest clock speeds, as limited by power and thermal throttling. Not sure it's worth disabling this unless you're going to then set the clock multipliers directly in the BIOS.

 

[texasrattler]

The impact of disabling Speed Shift, Enhanced Intel Speed Step (EIST), and Turbo Boost is very much dependent on the motherboard and what it does when these are disabled. EIST and SS are linked together, and actively change the clock frequencies, voltages, and power limits depending on the CPU load -- switching these off should, in theory, mean that the processor doesn't lower these values.

So one might find that the CPU runs at maximum clocks all the time, or maybe not -- it's partly down to whether the motherboard manufacturer overrides Intel's default behaviors in the BIOS. A simple way of checking is to use something like HWInfo64 to monitor the clocks and voltages with the settings on and then off.

The same is true of Turbo Boost -- typically this is enabled by default, as it lets the CPU reach its highest clock speeds, as limited by power and thermal throttling. Not sure it's worth disabling this unless you're going to then set the clock multipliers directly in the BIOS.

The game does run smoother with the intel speed n shift off. Turbo boost was already off. Could be something I did or was messing with years ago and never turned it back on.
My main goal is not have any type of pause that happens. Dont know why or how it happens. Turing the intel stuff off in the bios seem to help some but didnt stop it.

 

[texasrattler]

My cores (All 8) clock is at 3.6 to 3.599, slightly varying down or up a bit. Avg is 3.599.
Core Voltage avg at 1.042.

Intel speed n shift off. Turbo off.

 

[neeyik]

Yeah, put Turbo Boost back on. You have the same CPU as me — I have EIST, SS, and TB all enabled in BIOS, and it routinely runs between 4.7 and 4.9 GHz.

 

[texasrattler]

Yeah, put Turbo Boost back on. You have the same CPU as me — I have EIST, SS, and TB all enabled in BIOS, and it routinely runs between 4.7 and 4.9 GHz.

I did. Doing some tests. Avg voltage is now at 1.325 and avg. clock speed is at 4.6.

I read that its bad to have both Intel speed and shift on at the same time. Should use one or the other. No idea if that is true, just what I have read from articles. Intel shift is the newer version I guess.

 

[neeyik]

I read that its bad to have both Intel speed and shift on at the same time. Should use one or the other. No idea if that is true, just what I have read from articles. Intel shift is the newer version I guess.

EIST is the primary mechanism for altering clocks and voltages, but it’s controlled by the OS — it determines what power states the processor should be in and commands the CPU to carry out the changes. With Speed Shift enabled, most or all of this management is taken on by the CPU itself, with the end result being a finer level of power control, and much quicker changes to clocks and voltages.

In theory, enabling Speed Shift should override/disable any setting one has for EIST in the BIOS, but I suspect that this is somewhat of a minefield, where different manufacturers offer a variety of configurations. I personally always recommend that EIST and SS are either both always on or both always off.

 

[texasrattler]

EIST is the primary mechanism for altering clocks and voltages, but it’s controlled by the OS — it determines what power states the processor should be in and commands the CPU to carry out the changes. With Speed Shift enabled, most or all of this management is taken on by the CPU itself, with the end result being a finer level of power control, and much quicker changes to clocks and voltages.

In theory, enabling Speed Shift should override/disable any setting one has for EIST in the BIOS, but I suspect that this is somewhat of a minefield, where different manufacturers offer a variety of configurations. I personally always recommend that EIST and SS are either both always on or both always off.

Since you have the same processor, have you ever had any issues in games?
I get this pause as I call it at times in Warzone. It happens when loading the game, in the firing range n sometimes in game. I'm trying to figure out what's causing it. Can't figure it out.

 

[neeyik]

Since you have the same processor, have you ever had any issues in games?

Not with the processor, but occasionally with the motherboard (Asus Z390-Plus Gaming) and RAM combination. Over the four years I've had the setup, I've tried 3 different sets -- a 4 x 8 GB DDR4-2666 Micron kit, a 2 x 8 GB DDR4-3000 Corsair kit, and most recently, a 2 x 16 GB DDR-3200 Corsair kit. The latter has been the most stable and stutter-free installation by a big margin -- the Micron setup was especially problematic, despite being registered in the DRAM QVL as being fine for a 4 DIMM configuration.

Narrowing down what causes hitching/stuttering/pausing in games isn't very easy, unfortunately, especially in titles such as Warzone, as it's an online multiplayer title. Everything will have a say in the performance -- drivers, CPU, RAM, motherboard, type of storage drive, storage interface used, thermal solutions used, WiFi vs Ethernet, etc. However, pauses during the loading of a game are typically down to storage (type & interface), RAM, and drivers. What drive is the game installed on (brand, model, size, interface)?

 

[texasrattler]

Not with the processor, but occasionally with the motherboard (Asus Z390-Plus Gaming) and RAM combination. Over the four years I've had the setup, I've tried 3 different sets -- a 4 x 8 GB DDR4-2666 Micron kit, a 2 x 8 GB DDR4-3000 Corsair kit, and most recently, a 2 x 16 GB DDR-3200 Corsair kit. The latter has been the most stable and stutter-free installation by a big margin -- the Micron setup was especially problematic, despite being registered in the DRAM QVL as being fine for a 4 DIMM configuration.

Narrowing down what causes hitching/stuttering/pausing in games isn't very easy, unfortunately, especially in titles such as Warzone, as it's an online multiplayer title. Everything will have a say in the performance -- drivers, CPU, RAM, motherboard, type of storage drive, storage interface used, thermal solutions used, WiFi vs Ethernet, etc. However, pauses during the loading of a game are typically down to storage (type & interface), RAM, and drivers. What drive is the game installed on (brand, model, size, interface)?

For my SSDs, my main one is a Samsung 256GB with 121GB free and my secondary which has my games on it is a Sandisk 1TB with 679GB free.

Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVME
Sandisk Ultra 3D

 

[neeyik]

Is that Sandisk on an M.2 socket or a SATA one; if it's the former, is it using PCI Express or SATA as the interface?

 

[texasrattler]

Is that Sandisk on an M.2 socket or a SATA one; if it's the former, is it using PCI Express or SATA as the interface?

Sata

 

[neeyik]

Hmm, well even a SATA drive should be fine for this particular game. It might be worth trying the drive in a different socket on the motherboard (check the manual to ensure that the one you use doesn't clash with any other device or drive you have installed) and setting the asset cache in Warzone to its maximum value.

 

[texasrattler]

Hmm, well even a SATA drive should be fine for this particular game. It might be worth trying the drive in a different socket on the motherboard (check the manual to ensure that the one you use doesn't clash with any other device or drive you have installed) and setting the asset cache in Warzone to its maximum value.

What is asset cache?

I messed the pci timer timer in the bios. I read some users had success changing the value. Changed it from 32 to 64.

 

[neeyik]

What is asset cache?

I messed the pci timer timer in the bios. I read some users had success changing the value. Changed it from 32 to 64.

The PCI timer only affects PCI devices, not PCI Express ones or anything in SATA ports. A higher latency setting means each device retains control of the PCI bus (it's shared among devices) for more cycles -- useful for old PCI graphics cards and sound cards, but pointless on a modern system.

 

[texasrattler]

The PCI timer only affects PCI devices, not PCI Express ones or anything in SATA ports. A higher latency setting means each device retains control of the PCI bus (it's shared among devices) for more cycles -- useful for old PCI graphics cards and sound cards, but pointless on a modern system.

I know. I read that. Some did say that other things like mouse, sound and other legacy devices use the pci timer. In theory, increasing may help. May not, just something I tried.

I am also messing with my router. With all the network problems that Warzone is having, I looked into my own router to see if everything was setup correctly. While everything is fine, I forgot that I switched out my router a year ago. I never set back up my port forwarding to make sure all the ports were open that the game needs. While I have a open NAT, in the past I had better results with forwarding the ports open. So, I did that. Only did one game so not enough to see but didnt notice as much lag and/or the pausing as much. Once I play for a few days I will know more.

 

[neeyik]

Some did say that other things like mouse, sound and other legacy devices use the pci timer. In theory, increasing may help. May not, just something I tried.

If one is using, say, a PS/2 mouse then adjusting the latency timer will help, but your MSI motherboard has nothing like that -- there are no PCI slots and the audio chip connects directly to the PCH chip:

To be honest, where folks have altered things on such a system, any changes are most likely to be nothing more than a placebo effect.

As for the router, I'd expect it to have an impact on the performance during the games, but hitching/stuttering during loading is far more indicative of something amiss with the PC itself -- well, that or the game itself. My Steam library is on a dedicated M.2 NVMe SSD (Crucial P1) but other accounts (Epic, Ubisoft, EA) are on a SATA SSD (Samsung 850 EVO).

When I shifted the Steam account off the SATA drive, I noticed a definite difference in loading times with those games, perhaps in the order of a few seconds, but no stuttering during level loads, etc. The only problem is that I did this so long ago, I can't recall whether I was having such issues when it was all on the SATA. Perhaps not, as I don't think that I had anything with a huge asset load at that time.

It's possible that part of the cause of the issues you're experiencing is down to using a SATA drive -- after all, there's a fair degree of read performance between the two:

Samsung 850 EVO on a 6 Gbps SATA port


Crucial P1 on a PCIe 3.0 NVMe M.2


Almost a four-fold increase in the sequential read rate and 2.6 times more 4K random read ops.

 

[texasrattler]

True. Likely placebo.

As for the drive. I may just get another. I think I have another nmve slot or ill just get a better sata drive.

 

[neeyik]

As for the drive. I may just get another. I think I have another nmve slot

My Asus board has two, so there's a good chance your MSI does too. If not, you can always get a PCIe-to-M.2 adapter (example).

 

[texasrattler]

Yeah I do have another m.2 slot. Might see if I can get one. I dont think years ago when doing this build, that I paid attention to sata vs nvme. I just used the samsung for Windows wise. Didnt realize that ssd sata became what ssd was to a hard drive. Now nmve is the top choice due to speed compared ssd sata.

 

[texasrattler]

*Update*
So, I got a WD 500GB nvme. Found one for like $35. I have finally set it all up. Got the game on and redid some in game setting. While I am still testing currently, one of the things I have noticed so far was that my shader optimization is way faster. At times it would take a while or even get stuck, blazing fast now.
Hopefully it fixes or a least helps with my issue. Thanks for all the help and knowledge.

 

[texasrattler]

*Update*
Well, while things did get a bit better and faster, pausing is still there. No idea what is causing this. Not sure if its, cpu or gpu. I dont think its internet, ping seems fine, fps is around 80 with drops to like 70 and high about 100 or so.
Did latency mon, didnt notice or find anything wrong. No spikes.

 

[neeyik]

A timely article has just appeared which may help point you in the right direction

How to Use Intel PresentMon for Benchmarking and Testing

Intel's long-running game performance analyzer has been updated with a fresh look and new features. Is it worth using? Let's dive in and see how we can...

www.techspot.com

Use this app to see where the issue is -- if the frame time is much larger than the gpu busy time, then at least you know it's nothing to do with rendering (I.e. you can discount the graphics card from the cause of the stutters).

 

[texasrattler]

*Update*
So, I turned on cpu and gpu time. Noticed that my cpu is lower than my gpu. CPU is between 8-12 and GPU is higher.
I turned on nvidia reflex in game and set it to on + boost. So far its seems to have helped. Played a few games and was much smoother. Will test more tonight.

Not sure if this matters but task manger shows my cpu maxing out at times, 100% but my gpu is only a couple percent. Most I seen was like 20/30% but it sits in the single digits a lot.

 

[texasrattler]

Since turning on nvidia reflex to on + boost, things have been much better.

I did have a bios update, a year out of date. I usually keep it up to date, but I guess I missed this one and it had micro code fix. Maybe that also helped it. Dont know. I just know things are much better for now.