Elon Musk: Tesla's robot is its most important in-development product, potentially bigger...

[Avro Arrow]

From what my father-in-law told me, and from some of what my current colleagues do, I'd say its more of a misguided sense of entitlement, in essence, "lets go get paid to f'off all day long because no one will notice". It seems to be a lack of a solid work ethic.

In some respects, I cannot blame US companies for shipping jobs overseas to places where it sounds like the work ethic is the diametric opposite of that in the US. And now, that companies have shipped their jobs overseas, probably many of the same people with the same work ethic wonder why their job was shipped overseas.

The problem is that even with that work ethic (which I don't believe was as prevalent as it sounds), people are literally used as slave labour in other parts of the world. It's not like the cars got cheaper, the rich fat-cats just pocketed more of the money than before. It was a really stupid plan because it was the opposite of what Henry Ford's hugely successful plan was. What these companies did was weaken the financial positions of their would-be customers instead of increasing the likelihood that their customers would be able to afford their products.

The American companies treated their workers like $hit and had no loyalty to them so why would their employees not respond in kind? Just look at how Honda and Toyota treat their workers and it's not a shock that Toyota sits at the top of the world with Honda not too far behind.

As for the Americans and their great idea, now look at them. GM is in a hole that they'll probably never get out of, Chrysler is literally being tossed around like a hot potato by European makers and only Ford seems somewhat stable. The theory that you put forth has been debunked by what actually happened as a result of it.

 

[wiyosaya]

As for the Americans and their great idea, now look at them. GM is in a hole that they'll probably never get out of, Chrysler is literally being tossed around like a hot potato by European makers and only Ford seems somewhat stable. The theory that you put forth has been debunked by what actually happened as a result of it.

What's going on is a vicious circle. Companies treat employees like crap, employees either respond in kind, or look elsewhere.

Personally, I think its modern-day feudalism of the worst sort - where the monarch is not willing to be responsible for the serfs. There's a desire to be the king or queen of the hill without regard to what one really needs. As long as any entity can win it all, they will strive to do so because it grants them control over those who have less than they do. Typical hominid behavior. Someday, maybe those on the lower rungs will revolt and put an end to the tyranny.

IMO, the world would be a much better place if the attitudes of some of the indigenous peoples from various places around the world were adopted - those who repect the Earth and have learned that if you fish out all the fish in a body of water, there will be no fish for next year. But everyone wants to be the next Musk, Bezos, Gates, Buffet, etc., which is, IMO, not a sustainable model.

 

[Avro Arrow]

What's going on is a vicious circle. Companies treat employees like crap, employees either respond in kind, or look elsewhere.

Personally, I think its modern-day feudalism of the worst sort - where the monarch is not willing to be responsible for the serfs. There's a desire to be the king or queen of the hill without regard to what one really needs. As long as any entity can win it all, they will strive to do so because it grants them control over those who have less than they do. Typical hominid behavior. Someday, maybe those on the lower rungs will revolt and put an end to the tyranny.

See Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette. It's coming, and sooner than you think.

IMO, the world would be a much better place if the attitudes of some of the indigenous peoples from various places around the world were adopted - those who repect the Earth and have learned that if you fish out all the fish in a body of water, there will be no fish for next year.

Yes but they also have a lot of backwards attitudes as well. Nobody is perfect, not even them.

But everyone wants to be the next Musk, Bezos, Gates, Buffet, etc., which is, IMO, not a sustainable model.

Well, everyone in the USA does anyway. Most people who don't live in the USA consider the American worship of wealth to be a form of psychosis. I say that as a citizen of Canada (Bilingual Quebecker), the UK and the EU (by way of Ireland). The reason that people seem so f*cked in the head when it comes to the media is that people are usually watching US media.

The lies that I've seen on CNN, Fox and (insert prefix here)NBC have made me ignore all of corporate "news" and get my news from the CBC. Trust me, I and most people I know, find people like Musk and Bezos repulsive. Billionaires are representative of a diseased economy, not a healthy one.

 

[DaveBG]

And you and your "likes" are saying its never coming. Got it! ROFLLMAO.

So far its not kiddo so jokes on you. LMAO

 

[captaincranky]

Well that's what the Americans have been doing since the mid 1970s anyway.

I didn't want to bring this up, but I saw a brand new Dodge 318 cid V-8 come in from Canada with only 7 pistons. Really had our engine guy scratching his head as to what the huge miss was about.

(Yes, true story, and it was the early 70's).

 

[Avro Arrow]

I didn't want to bring this up, but I saw a brand new Dodge 318 cid V-8 come in from Canada with only 7 pistons. Really had our engine guy scratching his head as to what the huge miss was about.

(Yes, true story, and it was the early 70's).

Oh I completely agree (We make the damn Hellcat here too and I don't call them "Jesus Chryslers" for nothing). That's not what I meant because I wouldn't buy an American car made in Canada either. Where a car is made isn't really a huge factor. The company that designed and made it is the huge factor because line workers are line workers and I believe that most of them are honest and just want a good day's pay for a good day's work.

These companies aren't willing to give that anymore because of the NeoLiberal ideal of infinite and perpetual profit growth year-over-year (despite the fact that they exist in a finite market). This means that they have to squeeze and squeeze until the company collapses under its own weight. These corporations have to keep cutting costs and raising prices to keep their stock value climbing and their shareholders happy. The problem is that there's a huge difference between being efficiently frugal and (what I like to call) "cheaping yourself to death". It's the difference between wanting every dollar you spend to have maximum impact and not wanting to spend anything at all. The former is a recipe for success while the latter is a path to guaranteed failure.

There are great cars made in both Canada and the USA but they're not American cars. The Accord and Camry are both made in the USA while the Civic and Corolla are made in Canada. The CR-V is made in the USA and the RAV4 is made in Canada. These are all fantastic vehicles made in both our countries which proves that we're more than capable of producing great vehicles but GM, Ford and Chrysler wouldn't allow us to because of their terrible corporate cultures at the executive levels.

Then the Japanese build plants here and show that the reason that vehicles made under the North American Auto Pact sucked was because of the corporate overlords controlling the "Detroit Big 3". It's funny too because the Big-3 was a result of market contraction and consolidation. Never forget names like Nash, Hudson, Willys Overland and Kaiser who were forced to merge into AMC and then into Chrysler. Also never forget Packard and Studebaker who were forced to merge and then just outright died. Quality was never a big deal to the Americans.

 

[captaincranky]

There are great cars made in both Canada and the USA but they're not American cars. The Accord and Camry are both made in the USA while the Civic and Corolla are made in Canada. The CR-V is made in the USA and the RAV4 is made in Canada. These are all fantastic vehicles made in both our countries which proves that we're more than capable of producing great vehicles but GM, Ford and Chrysler wouldn't allow us to because of their terrible corporate cultures at the executive levels.

Suzuki bailed on its auto production in North America. A lousy rollover Report by consumer Reports on their "Samurai" (Likely unjustified). And the fact that American society is absurdly litigious, sent them packing. I have a "Sidekick" (Samurai's successor), built in Canada

Also never forget Packard and Studebaker who were forced to merge and then just outright died. Quality was never a big deal to the Americans.

Ah yes, closet Nazis in Germany, (and Argentina), are likely still spitting on Packard's grave, due to their production of the Rolls-Royce, "Merlin" aircraft engine used to power the Spits and Mustangs.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Suzuki bailed on its auto production in North America. A lousy rollover Report by consumer Reports on their "Samurai" (Likely unjustified). And the fact that American society is absurdly litigious, sent them packing. I have a "Sidekick" (Samurai's successor), built in Canada

Yep, I read about that. It turned out to be complete bunk. I'm pleasantly surprised that someone still has a Sidekick out there because I used to love those things in all of their iterations (Chevy Tracker, GMC Tracker, Geo Tracker and Asuna Sunrunner). I actually had a 1991 Swift GT and I loved it to death. What a little rocket that was!

Ah yes, closet Nazis in Germany, (and Argentina), are likely still spitting on Packard's grave, due to their production of the Rolls-Royce, "Merlin" aircraft engine used to power the Spits and Mustangs.

Exactly my point. Here's a company, Packard, that was instrumental in defeating the Nazis and their reward was a bunch of consumers who bought cars that weren't Packard. The same lack of values is the reason why so many people bought Intel and nVidia. They don't care about anything in the long-term and aren't smart enough to see the big picture. Their vision doesn't extend past the ends of their noses.