Game developer: Pre-owned games are worse than piracy

For Guest: Royalty payments are common practice in nearly every industry. Television shows (even old re-runs of Gilligan's Island have to pay royalties), movies, music (radio stations have to pay royalties on the songs they play - usually packaged in a deal with the distributor), etc. Royalties are paid for artwork hanging in a museum. You can even say cars have royalty payments of a sort in that their components break down over time and need to be replaced. Some of the items - such as transmissions, drive-lines, electrical components have to be purchased from the original manufacturer. You never buy a car, drive it away and then never have to invest in it again.

For jwdR1 - that's what reviews and demos are for (although admittedly demos are becoming fewer and far between). Anyone who goes out and pays top dollar for a game without waiting for reviews is just asking to get burned. I did recently with Silent Hunter V. Silent Hunter III & IV were terrific games and I presumed V would be as good or better. I pre-paid for it at top dollar and it's the biggest dog I've played in 20 years. Lesson learned. I won't be doing that again. There's a reason we have Metacritic around: http://www.metacritic.com/games/pc/

@TomSEA Royalties are common practice in industries that don't sell to the end customer. If you buy a TV show on dvd and go to sell it you don't have to pay a royalty. Games are sold to the end customer so your example really makes zero sense. Now if say games where sold to xbl and xbl had a system setup to where you paid a monthly rate to play any games you want than yes it would make sense to have a royalty system but that isn't how it is setup. CDs, books, art don't have royalties when you buy them.

Let's ban used book stores and libraries while we're at it.

"CDs, books, art don't have royalties when you buy them."

Agreed. But they do have EULA's prohibiting the resale of those items. So if people are going to violate that EULA and applicable copyright laws by re-selling, then there should be a royalty fee for the creator/distributor.

"You can even say cars have royalty payments of a sort in that their components break down over time and need to be replaced. Some of the items - such as transmissions, drive-lines, electrical components have to be purchased from the original manufacturer. You never buy a car, drive it away and then never have to invest in it again."

Sorry Tom..bad example.

When you buy parts, you don't have to get them from the original manufacturer nor do you have to send money back to Chevy or Ford. You can also get parts from a junkyard..oh wait..those are second hand parts...should Ford or Chevy have an employee at Bob's Junk Yard to collect money?

"CDs, books, art don't have royalties when you buy them.

Agreed. But they do have EULA's prohibiting the resale of those items. So if people are going to violate that EULA and applicable copyright laws by re-selling, then there should be a royalty fee for the creator/distributor. "

Well I haven't bought a CD in 15 years so I'll take your word on that. Books and Art is resold all the time and has no EULA. You can't take those their intellectual ideas and make them your own because that would be plagiarism, but you can certainly resell books and art without paying a royalty. It happens everyday in used books stores and art galleries.

yeah screw these companies...if they don't wanna be pirated or be undercut by used games then CUT YOUR PRICES...be fair to the gamers out there b/c gaming is an ever-booming industry...making me pay $400-500 for a freaking console/accessories then want me to go spend $60 bucks per game?? wtf is this world coming to

Games with royalty payments on second hand sales is a rather preposterous idea even for you Tom. I have to say you are always off the chart when it comes to anything copyright.

Um, no. EULA does not supersede laws nor is it a law. EULA's in several cases are still a rather large gray area and have been struck down depending on the case multiple times in court. See Vernor v. Autodesk for a great example, one that has been ruled in our favor (being appealed) saying that in this case the software was sold and not licensed. Their is no doubt in my mind that the US Supreme Court will be hearing cases related to digital ownership and privacy in the upcoming years as these issues need to be addressed.

So how much longer before we have law enforcement driving around town looking for yard/garage sales and fining people for selling used games, movies, and CD's?

Games? Haven't bought a new game since 2 years after the PS2 was released. I always bought them from friends, pawn shops, craigslist, yard/garage sales. Every game I own came from somewhere other then the "New" shelf at the store.
Although, I do rent most of them first.

Movies? Library. I'm always in the top ten to check out a movie when it comes out on DVD. I keep check on the libraries site and as soon as the movie slides into their database, I put it on hold and wait 2 months for it finally come out. Best of all, it's free and I get the movie for a full week (beats the rental store). And there's also second hand stores (like Goodwill and Salvation Army).

Music? Once again, the library. I check out a CD, listen to it, then go to my blackberry and pull up Pandora and listen to the artist and others like that artist. If there are certain songs I REALLY want, I go to Amazon and download only the songs I like for $0.99. And if I happen to find a CD at a garage sale or second hand store, I buy it there.

So i'd say I get most of my entertainment at garage sales, second hand stores, the library, and friends. So the chances that i'll never be able to get second hand stuff are VERY slim. And let's not forget the free software out there to remove the copyright which allows you to rip to your computer. It's very easy to get a movie from the library and burn it to your own blank DVD. I'm sorry, but piracy and second hand selling are never going to go away. Good luck with that.

I'd pay US$200 for every new game that I buy..... provided that I end up liking it, and have the option of returning it for a full refund, no questions asked, if I hate it.

Would probably work out cheaper for me too this way, with the number of absolutely crappy titles out there selling for US$60 or more.

Also, I think some of the arguments here have been taken out of context. They are charging $10 for extra online content, which would have been free if you bought the original game new. Or at least this is what I perceive they are trying to do.

This isn't exactly the best scenario for us, but its much better than $10 for just being able to install the game, which is the vibe I'm getting from the discussions above.

The gaming industry is going the way of the dodo - much like the music industry.

There is quantity but definately a lack of quality.

If developers provide quality products people will buy.

There are far too many titles that are released half baked.

MW 2 is a fine example. Why should I pay full price for a quarter of a game ?

There are other fine titles that provide decent single player / mutliplayer and has some kind of technical advancement. The price is also far more reasonable.

Current gen consoles are getting long in the tooth anyway so devs should roll up their sleeves and start doing some real work for PC owners.

This just in. The Car industry is upset that people are selling used cars. To quote an industry executive "if used cars could not be sold everyone would need to buy new cars, this has caused us to lose $50 billion dollars".

Ah, keep selling those used games, Gamestop. Anything to hopefully get developers back to the PC.

You get what you pay for!

I 100% agree. I my self dont buy NEW games @ all. 9 out of 10 times most of the games come out are total crap. Why spend $65+ on a new title that you can either wait for it to come down in price or buy a used one from somebody that traded it in. This trading of games has been going on since the late end of 80's. It has been 21yrs pass and now they say that the used game business is hurting thier sales??.. Come on lets get real. All day doing is bitching because they can't or stop the piracy of thier titles on the Internet. So this is why we are starting to see the move on DLC. I have owned so many console and barley bought a NEW game, I always bought used and traded in to buy something else. Just take a look @ the used car business...same concept.

This is going to hurt Gamefly bigtime. Luckily I'm a PC gamer and and dont really have to worry about it...yet. I see the industry going the way of software in charging a yearly license or something of that nature. Probably wont happen too soo, but I think it will happen eventually.

exactly! ... i can understand there concerns but people are trying to find ways to get it cheaper not get the shaft and pay some sort of license fee's etc.

This might come as a shock to gamers.....but what makes you so entitled to......gaming. I've been gaming since the early 80's and it's a HOBBY. Gaming isn't food, gaming isn't shelter or clothing either. The companies are allowed to price items at whatever price they want so long as people are willing to purchase it. Obviously people are since they've held these prices so high for so long, so who's really to blame. Take any game that doesn't sell well from the start....give it a month or two and it'll drop in price $10-$20. So er...just wait to purchase. If everyone did it...the prices would come down. It's people's sense of entitlement, impatience, and instant gratification that feeds these companies greed. Don't be mad at them for what is part of society's inherent problem.

Are you kidding me

If I purchased a game for a ridiculous price of $60 and got bored with it, then I have a right to sell it afterwards.

What's next, I buy a car and after a few years junk it instead of selling it because it might cut into the profits of Ford or GM. Pffft these companies are getting ridiculous.

This logic is fundamentally flawed in the same manner that all pirates would buy the game if the pirated version wasn't available. Used games sale do not equate directly to new game sales loss. Many people would skip a title entirely just because they are unsure they will like it. How many people have purchased a crappy game. I bet most gamers have at one time or another. I have a shelf full of junk no one plays. Many of them used so it is OK.


I know game prices eventually come down, but they come down as popularity wanes and unless you buy from a online retailer you will never see them again in a store. I buy used games on impulse. I research new games and even then end up with some over hyped drink coasters. The used market also allows for people to get something back on there investment.

If they totally eliminate used games one they will see maybe 0.1% growth in sales (One study has been done concerning piracy and found eliminating it would equate to 1 new sale per 1000 pirated copies stopped), and possibly a loss in sales because some people would be less likely to invest in new game releases until they see some post hype reviews.

Used games also create fans. I have purchased new titles based on the impulse buy of an earlier incarnation of a game.

The analyst just don't understand the whole dynamic. A small fee for online content, well that may work depending on price point and long term management of the online content. Elimination of used games sales will hurt more than it will generate new sales, and may sour gamers over the long run.

They need to do more comprehensive studying on the issue before making these broad and *****ic statements. I would have never paid full price for any of the used games I have purchased. I hate that I did pay full price for some I did.

hello ...

this is bad, i'm not a marketing expert, so can't see it their way, but i do buy a lot, i really mean a lot of PS3 & PC games & never selling them back means i'll never face such issues.

but 1 thing for sure, i don't like the idea of preventing re-use (not second hand resale here) ,,,
how can they know if it is used or not? by registering the machine !? or will it be associated to gamertag or PSN ID?

If linked to accounts, may work, EA's model not bad, yet sometimes same problem will rise as for Machine validation.

I don't like gamesharing for PSN games, but need the feature to re-download any purchase (up to 5 times is OK, yet still too limited for me). what my console die on me & i buy another one? what if my account get hacked (assuming i don't have any credit card info on it) & i end up create another one, what will happen ? do i have to pay to play my own game ?

i feel they are pushing it too much, games sharing, second hand sales have always been there & video games industry seem to be doing quite fine, so why do they want to fix something that ain't broken LOL!

i think they'd better leave all this alone, i'll stop buying games, consoles & any accessories if they apply this, i don't want to be limited by their own limitations. Why would someone not want to keep a game? If it has enough content & great replay value, you won't even have to think about this.

then you should also ban game renting or you should stop making games!

If you want more money, do great games, if you want to milk customers, create smaller downloadable ones & sell at lower prices.

cheers!

Buy a PS3, don't have to pay to play games online..........food for thought.