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How to take HDMI output from old CPU which has only VGA

By Archie
Oct 16, 2012
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  1. Archie

    Archie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 21

    Ok , but if its a Dedicated - AMD card then I have the option of using both together right ? Something called Hybrid Crossfire . is this good ?

    On the other hand if its an Nvidia card, I have to disable the Graphics component of IGP from Bios to use the d- gfx card , is my understanding of the above to two situations correct?
     
  2. Archie

    Archie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 21

  3. ikesmasher

    ikesmasher TS Evangelist Posts: 1,963   +389

    I think its bogus, regardless whether its AMD or intel there will ALWAYS be problems with some people.
    That being said, I own a (laptop) apu, and have 3 friends with desktop APUs. Not a single problem. Its usually motherboard that causes the few problems anyone might have, and thats normal across all systems.
     
  4. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TechSpot Paladin Posts: 6,233   +1,547

    I agree with ikesmasher, AMD would take a tremendous hit in sales if they were to put out hardware with such issues on a large scale. I'm personally an Intel/nVidia guy but I have nothing against AMD other than personal preference.
     
  5. Archie

    Archie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 21

    Thanks guys can you please check if I have understood certain things clearly below is my understanding .

    Now all Intel processors have inbuilt graphics so all mobo which support Intel processors do not have have integrated Graphics in the chip set , so I must get a dedicated GFX card in order to expand right? So there is not much confusion here.

    Well as for AMD I am really confused , if I get APU Trinity or Llano , then these have IGP's right.
    Now can I get a Mobo with Integrated Graphics in the chipset too, for these APU's , I should think not.

    That extra Graphics in the chipset will work as an additional card ? Is this a possibility?

    Or would you say that if I am using an APU then I should not go for a chipset with Integrated graphics even if these are available .Rather if required later I can install a Discreet Graphics card on a pcie slot . For the APU I think there will not even be any mother board with another Graphics chipset integrated into it, right?Just like intel processors.


    But these APU mobo's will certainly have Pcie slots so I can upgrade to a discreet card any time.

    Gfx in Processor
    Gfx in D- card
    Gfx in Chipset of Mother board

    These Gfx options are confusing me . what would be the best solution.


    Also AM3/AM3+ do not have IGP , so now I can either get a D-card on the PCie with dedicated graphics , or buy a mobo with integrated Graphics chipset.

    Basically APU mobo's are quite similar to intel Mobos in the sense that they both do not require Integrated Graphics in the chipset, right? Because they already have GFX inside them in the same die.Right?

    But AM3 and AM3+ have no Gfx integrated in them so now I have the option of Buying either a Discreet gfx card or Mobo with integrated gfx in the chipset?

    Is my understanding of things correct?
     
  6. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TechSpot Paladin Posts: 6,233   +1,547

    If I understand it myself the concept behind APU was to integrate the graphics into the CPU. I do know you will either have integrated graphics in the CPU or chip-set but not both. Changes where integration is moved from the chipset to the CPU is completely two different architects.

    There are motherboards that do not support integrated graphics but yet the CPU still has integrated graphics. My last two systems where motherboards that did not support graphics. My current system is a P67 Sandy Bridge. The P67 chip-set does not support graphics but will support any CPU that has integrated graphics. The only difference seeing as the integration is in the CPU, you will not be able to use the integrated graphics unless both CPU and motherboard support graphics. All other chip-sets for Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge support integrated graphics, the P67 was the only one that did not.

    Just because you have integrated graphics does not mean you can not use a dedicated graphics solution. Some people prefer systems that do not include integration when they go with a dedicated solution. But that is usually just a personal preference as they feel they are paying for something they are never gonna use and sometimes paranoid that the integration is somehow using power and producing heat while not being used.
     
    Archie likes this.
  7. ikesmasher

    ikesmasher TS Evangelist Posts: 1,963   +389

    Lemme put this in simple terms as I can.
    Most Intel CPUs will have graphics built in. (there are specific versions of I processors ending in a P that do not have them, but you dont really have to worry about finding these). these are NOT meant for HD video OR gaming.
    For AMD, APUs are their only release with graphics built in. These built in graphics are meant more for HD video and budget gaming.

    Motherboards also have built in graphics sometimes. They are NOT AS GOOD AS AMD APUs. they cannot be used alongside other graphics solutions. Most of the time, the best thing to do is ignore the motherboard's built in graphics.
    So your possible graphics setups are:

    Intel CPU with graphics (not meant for HD or gaming)
    AMD APU graphics (meant for HD and budget gaming)
    motherboard graphics (Not as good as APU, and, at this point, probably not any better then Intel graphics)
    dedicated card (a good one will easily be much, much better than any of these solutions.)

    AM3 and AM3+ have no graphics solutions, you are correct. In that situation, you would either A.) have to use the motherboard's (crappy) graphics. Not ALL motherboards have graphics, its mentioned in the specs if they do. B.) get a dedicated card.

    For your budget, the APU is your best bet.

    KEEP THIS IN MIND. Only ONE graphics solution listed above is usable AT ONE TIME. (there are exceptions for dedicated cards and certain APU and D-card combinations, but im not going to confuse you with them right now., and you need not worry about it.) you cannot make them work together or anything.
     
    Archie likes this.
  8. Archie

    Archie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 21

    Yups that's fine, that what I thought too.

    I think you mean that the Chipset does not have integrated graphics because the Graphics is inside the CPU right?

    Again I think you mean that the mother board did not have Integrated Graphics in the chipset , right?

    I think you mean that the P67 does not have Integrated Graphics in the chipset , but supports Sandy bridge which has GPU inside its CPU , right?

    This sounds ok too.


    This part I could not understand, I must be missing something . Here are the two architectures P67 http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/mainstream-chipsets/p67-express-chipset.html

    and Z77

    http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/performance-chipsets/z77-express-chipset.html

    They look the same to me, both of these chipsets do not have integrated Graphics in the Chipset ( Motherboard )
    because they support a CPU which has the Graphics inside ( GPU inside ).

    Graphics is present in the chipset if the processor that will go on the chip set , does not have GPU inside the CPU, this is what I think

    This is fine too.
    we just to come on the same page , regarding the portion in Blue.
    P67 and Z77 shown in the diagrams are different in the sense that Z77 is shown as having a processor with Graphics inside , well as P67 is shown as only a processor with no Graphics.

    What am I missing ?
     
  9. Archie

    Archie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 21

    That tallies with my understanding too.

    You mean in spite of Intel processors having Graphics built in and also the option to expand via PCie slots , there are companies making Graphics in the mother board too!! Why for what purpose !!

    Companies must have done so for the Intel ( And AMD ) processors that do not have inbuilt graphics.Because if an user has the option of upgrading through PCIe slots , why give nonsensical Graphics in the mother Board ?May be a temporary low cost solution for the customer.

    This is very clear and tallies with my understanding.

    Perfect ! I thought so too.

    Yups makes sense ! But don't want very low CPU power too. I can extend my budget to accommodate a D- Gfx card.

    aah ! I know what you are taking about . Hybrid Crossfire isn't it . Please could you enlighten all of us in this.

    If Knowledge is Wealth ! Then please make us Rich today.

    All I know is that if I am using an APU ( Trinity and Llano ) with a dedicated gfx card then they work in cohesion increasing my Gfx capability.

    if I have an Intel processor with a Dedicated gfx card then only one will work as you have mentioned, I have to disable the CPU - Gfx from Bios and make D- gfx primary. So only my D- gfx card will work . Both the CPU - GPU and D-gfx will not work in cohesion , as in APU - D card combination, hope I have understood it correctly..
     
  10. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TechSpot Paladin Posts: 6,233   +1,547

    No, I mean the motherboard was not designed to take advantage of the integrated graphics within the CPU. You see I have an LGA1155 motherboard with P67 Chipset. My Core i7-2600K processor has Intel HD 3000 graphics but with my motherboard not having graphical support, there is no way for me to use the integrated graphics.
     
  11. slh28

    slh28 TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,925   +170

    Yeah you've understood this correctly, but there's an extra point that Hybrid CF only works with a limited number of discrete AMD cards, and only up to the HD 6670 IIRC. So if you decide to buy any sort of mid range GPU for gaming then you can't use the graphics on the APU.

    But what you've got to realise is that any mid range GPU will be many times better than an APU or Intel HD graphics, so if you go for a dedicated GPU then just use that exclusively and forget about Hybrid CF or anything like that.
     
     
  12. Archie

    Archie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 21

    aah Wow never knew this !! Thank you so much

    I had assumed that if a processor fits into a mother board then , then all is well.
    Obviously that is not he case as I see here. So how come you did not know this when you bought the Mother board?

    My Basic Questions:
    is it possible to change the chip set on a mother board so that it can support the graphics in your processor.
    I think the chip sets are integrated in the mother board right, so they cant be changed?

    In this case you must be using a dedicated gfx card ?
    Does LGA1155 come with more than one kind of chipset.? So if had got another LGA1155 with a different chipset , then the grapics in your CPU would be useful?
     
  13. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TechSpot Paladin Posts: 6,233   +1,547

    I did know this when I purchased. I didn't purchase the i7-2600K for its integrated graphics capabilities. Yes I am using dedicated graphics, it's the only way to have graphics with a motherboard that doesn't support integration (even if the CPU does). As I mentioned earlier all other LGA1155 chipsets (H61, H67, Z68, B75, H77, Z75, Z77, etc...) does support integrated graphics within the CPU.
     
  14. Archie

    Archie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 21

    Ok So what could have been the reason for getting P67 over H61, is it the cost angle?

    Are there any advantages that P67 gives over H61 or other chip sets.
     
  15. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TechSpot Paladin Posts: 6,233   +1,547

    They were over-clocking reasons, the P67 allowed for better over-clocking than the H61 and H67. And at the time I purchased the P67, there were only those three options for chip-sets. All other chip-sets were released later. I think the Z68 was released two months after my P67 purchase, which over-clocks just as well as the P67 and also supports integrated graphics.

    Have you given any consideration for AMD as your next PC. I do agree with the others on an APU being a good choice, APU's make a perfect media PC for anyone on a budget.
     
  16. Archie

    Archie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 21

    Ok that explains quite a lot, why is overclocking such an important feature, just read in Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overclocking that overclocking is not such a good idea , any way I am sure you have your reasons. As given in Wiki too.

    Sure I have all my options open, So for AMD my choice of processors will be either Llano or Trinity both are APU's right?
    What would be my choice for the chip set? Need one each of HDMI and DVI ports, Both PCI and PCie slots and all other Required features.
     
  17. ikesmasher

    ikesmasher TS Evangelist Posts: 1,963   +389

    KK ill try making this simple as well.
    You are correct about intel. Using a dedicated card will require you to disable the intel graphics, using only the graphics on the D-card for your PC.

    However, for AMD, there is crossfire.
    There are two kinds of crossfire.
    The kind you mentioned, hybrid crossfire, uses the APUs graphics alongside the D-card. HOWEVER, this only works with SPECIFIC (and lower priced/powered) cards. (someone else would have to give you the actual model number of supported cards, I wouldnt know.)
    Normal crossfire (like, its called just "crossfire" as far as I know) is having TWO D-cards working together through a crossfire bridge (a crossfire bridge is an actual cable between the cards.) FOR YOUR BUDGET, a cheaper motherboard CANNOT DO NORMAL CROSSFIRE WELL. If you are getting a cheaper motherboard it wont be able to do normal crossfire well (if you want me to explain in the next post, I will, just trying to avoid confusion here). However, assuming you get a compatible dedicated card and a APU, pretty much all motherboards (of the correct APU socket, obviously) can support that.

    I hope this is all clear :D
     
  18. Archie

    Archie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 21

    Hi please can you elaborate why an ordinary board cannot do normal cross fire well.

    So do you mean that I have to buy an expensive board so that later if I buy a D- GFX card , both the APU and the D-GFX card can work in cohesion without any problems ?

    P.S.Please do post the reply and I will get back to you on this after the week end. Have a great week end.
     
  19. slh28

    slh28 TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,925   +170

    Forget about Crossfire, both the normal and hybrid kind.

    "Normal" CF is designed for top end systems, e.g. two 7970's or two 7950's where a single card just isn't powerful enough. In almost all cases it is better to get a single more powerful card than two less powerful ones (CF creates more noise, power consumption and has driver issues).

    Hybrid CF only works up to low end cards. If you want any sort of decent gaming experience you'll want to get a mid range card like the 6850 or 7770 which don't work with hybrid CF anyway.

    Any FM2/FM1 motherboard (depending on what APU you go for) will be fit for your purpose, they will all have at least one PCI-E slot for a discrete GPU.
     
    ikesmasher likes this.
  20. ikesmasher

    ikesmasher TS Evangelist Posts: 1,963   +389

    I agree with slh, normal crossfire is for high end systems (you can do it with other cards but its pointless) and most hybrid crossfire D-cards arent powerful to justify buying it.

    But if you must know, cheaper motherboards cannot support normal crossfire because of underneath.
    Most mobos have two PCIe slots. These two slots must share bandwidth (they must share amount of room they have to communicate with the motherboard, really rough explaination and someone else can do better). Dedicated cards run at the speed x16 to run full speed. However, cheaper motherboards only support one X16 PCIe slot, and then other is a much slower, usually X4. This makes crossfire a complete waste of resources. For crossfire to be effective, both slots must run at x16, which only more expensive motherboards do.
    For some reason, I had a hard time explaining that, so if someone else can do better, please do.
     
  21. Cinders

    Cinders TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 1,313   +12

    The components that slh28 recommended will not lock you out of using a discrete video card later on. Playing modern games at HD screen resolutions with all the "eye candy" turned on usually requires a fairly beefy (hundreds of dollars) discrete video card and a quality, high power, power supply unit to allow the video card all the amps it needs to do its job. IF you were going to turn this into a gaming machine I'd make sure to get at least a six core AMD CPU (or a quad core i5 Intel CPU) and I'd also plan on 8GB of system memory and an expensive dedicated GPU with at least 1GB of DDR5 video memory, I'd favor more like 2GB of DDR5 video memory with 256bit memory access and a quality power supply with at least six-hundred and fifty watts of power.

    With the right discrete video card you will not need CrossFire or SLI at all
     
  22. SNGX1275

    SNGX1275 TS Forces Special Posts: 12,647   +323

    I've been avoiding this thread because I wasn't on TS that often and the thread grew too fast for me to keep up with, but I skimmed through it and wanted to at least make a point I didn't see made above. And it appears ikesmasher hasn't purchased anything yet.

    There are a few motherboards that will work with PCIe and a Pentium 4 (well the 775 P4s). One example is the ASRock Dual 775-VSTA. It would also accept an AGP card or a PCIe (although only at 4x) and DDR or DDR2 RAM. You could pair that with a relatively modern inexpensive PCIe graphics card that has some hardware decoding for HD video playback.

    I don't really recommend this approach because it requires all the work of building a new system but the only benefit you get is you can reuse your processor and RAM. But, it would be pretty inexpensive if you could find the board used for cheap.

    I ran that motherboard with DDR2 RAM and a geforce 7800GS AGP card with a C2D e6400 for a while, then let Tarkus (old forum member) borrow the board when he had a board unexpectedly die. I believe he ran DDR2 RAM and a PCIe graphics card with a C2D 4300. He sent it back when he bought a new board and processor, then I had it running again for another year or two. The board works well for what it is intended to do, be a stop-gap for people that want to upgrade, yet still use a lot of old parts.
     


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