Is my amp big enough

At least you noted the sarcasm. I fail to see where you must pump loads of power to a driver to make it sound good. L7s may need some power but 300w will be decent for the added low end extention that most people want.

Theories? I'm sure that none of what was said in this thread could be produced in real world applications. Switching RCAs or maybe even using a DMM would be too complicated for anyone but an ivy league professor. Conductivity of wire means nothing either; any piece or pieces of wire that you just find lying around the house would work in this application. Don't have wire? Just tape a bunch of spoons together. It's metal, right?

Oh yes, bookworms who look at the t/s parameters on a driver and know how they influence the sound of the driver. The ones who read all they can to better understand how acoustics work in different environments and varying conditions. Us who actually apply the knowledge we have by testing all the things we learned from reading and studying the subject. Is it all overkill for the normal consumer? Yes, not many people care to understand the BL curve of a subwoofer or how a motor works. Does that mean that you should just go to Best Buy, Circuit City, or some other chain of stores and listen to a salesman who is paid minimum wage and whose primary goal is to move inventory? No, you ask around and read up to the point where you won't get intimidated by some salesman.

Ever go to www.caraudio.com or www.caraudioforum.com or even www.termpro.com? You have people there in the industry from companies such as Adire, Resonant Engineering, Elemental Designs, Better Audio, JL, etc. Termpro has world class competitors in Db Drag who regularly exchange ideas and advice.
These are the same people who have worked all their lives in a field which they love and they don't hesitate to inform the novice audio enthusiest who wants more than "go talk to some installers." If you think having MECP certification means jack, it doesn't; every Best Buy installer is required to get certified, not to mention, some of the things in their study guides are completely wrong or misleading.

Obviously, I am trying to inform the community as a whole and try not to base my knowledge on what a few Best Buy installers have to say.

You want to know where my knowledge comes from?

Loudspeaker Design Cookbook by Vance Dickason
Acoustics by Beranek
Audio Engineer's Handbook by Benson
Acoustical Engineering by Olson
Tech papers put out by:
- Adire Audio
- Better Audio
- JBL
- Richard Clark
- Dan Wiggins

I don't know everything but I'm not ignorant enough to say that you should just take my word as the end to everything. There is just as much misinformation on the internet as there is of credible information. If what I said is wrong, prove it. I told him how to get the best sound possible with that setup with my first reply; everything else was to augment that reply and maybe help explain some of the common car audio myths that novices propogate. :grinthumb

Maybe you should rephrase that remark. That explanation was simply a scientific one for yinyang's benefit only, as he claimed to know everything about audio.

As regards practical experience, well, I've been an audiophile for over 25 years, I have a degree in electronics, I built my own speakers, and studied acoustics, some 20 years ago. I've listened to hundreds of pieces of audio equipment, and I've installed a small number of car audio systems in that time. I even agreed with your original comments here. However, you now seem to have resorted to attacking everyone else's views on the subject. That's not good and only makes you look bad.

Simple truth is, different people value different qualities in their car audio, and in my experience, I am quite happy listening to 6 inch units and 40 watt amps. Anything else is overkill for me. If you want to feel the sound and have it cover all the background noise, then thats fine for you, or anyone else, but don't start attacking others just because they don't agree with you, or because one person attacks your comments.

Everyone here is free to make their own comments and I'm sure the thread starter will be able to compare and reach their own conclusions.

Didn't claim to know everything, just more than most. Also, I'm more car audio oriented and you're more home audio oriented. The listening situations are different and the equipment available is different. 1000w on a home system is overkill in home theater yet most of us car people run at least that just for the low end section of our systems.

I was not disagreeing about the wire possible introducing distortion; I was arguing that it would be undectable to the vast majority of the population in the listening environment of a car. Is nic wrong? No, he has a valid argument that I don't believe applies as much to car audio as it would to home audio, if at all.

Though, we both agree that although you can look at specs all you want, in the end, your ears decide. If this wasn't the case, tubes would have completely been phased out by now because of the distortion they add to a signal which gives that "warm" sound that most people describe.

Yin Yang- I can tell you are entirely a car guy and I agree with you that the H2 is a ridiculous behemouth wannabe-schoolbus of a monstrosity. As per your recommendations for car audio, I feel that rather than endorse quality sound and practical systems, you have fallen into the uncontrolled arms race that is car audio- where everything is Sound Pressure Level and competition winners are the cars that are most likely to cause accidental defication and hemmoraging to those people that get too close to them while they pump music from 10 15'' drivers crammed into the trunk and powered by an arcwelder. I may be showing my age (30) here but it seems rediculous to say that wire interconnects dont matter
and then to recommend that someone needs a thousand watts just to reproduce bass in a car- that's just silly and untrue.

The whole bass boomer car culture is an affront to my privacy and to my ears. It is born of the same mentality that says "I need the biggest damn SUV around- and I wanna look like Arnold or Pdiddy when I drive it so I'ts gotta look like a HumVee but be alot cheaper cus Im gonna need to save some money to buy 24inch rims that will totally destroy the ride and make it handle like a wheel barrow, but hey- I'll look cool and women will like me even though its blatantly obvious I'm over-compensation for something."

<calmly steps down off the soap box>

as to the original post- a 300 wat amp will drive ANY 15 inch speaker to a level appropriate for listening to ANY music in ANY sized car- PROVIDED its x-over properly and in an appropriate box. Will it rattle your liscense plate? yeh probably. Will it rattle mine when you pull up behind me? probably not, but it will save you a finger gesture.

Well said Godataloss. I think YingYang's ears are already beyond recovery, and that is why he needs it louder and cannot pick out the details in the sound. No, I'm just kidding really, but each to his own as the saying goes. Besides most owners that are into high wattage car audio, do so for the bragging rights alone, and not for the sound quality. These high powered systems can be dangerous and damage your hearing. If you drive around with the windows closed, and crank up the volume, then decide to open the windows, you could end up bursting your eardrums as the SPL will suddenly increase beyond safe limits. That's something to bear in mind if you plan on going down that route.

You are completely right to say that you don't need 1000w to push any driver (well, maybe most...). I never endorsed needing 1000w but it allows some nice headroom if you ever want more output. I hooked up my sister's ride with 2200w available but she never ever uses that much; it's like just because you have a Dodge Viper doesn't mean you have to drive 100+ mph. It's available but it's not something that is used daily.

Personally, I am an SQL guy who dabbles in SPL competition only as a hobby. Honestly, without serious electrical system upgrades, your alternator will crap out within a half hour if you try pumping too much power which is why SPL competitors only use their stereo for 1-3 seconds and then shut everything down.

If you want to know what my current car system. It's all stock except for the head unit. I'm upgrading to a cheap component set and a 8" sub later and then I am finished. This is all going to be run off of a 5-channel amp with a 300w sub channel. Unless it is a competition vehicle, I try to keep it simple because I have no desire to have anyone listen to my system but me. My sister's vehicle is a temporary setting for a competition system that also can be used as a daily driver; I just didn't have lower powered amps to switch out and I won't give her my collector edition gear.

These are the same people we in the professional car audio industry hate as well. They drop a few grand on a system and have it installed for the sole purpose of being loud. They put those aweful coffee can exhausts on their 1.8L Hondas and drive around residential neighboorhoods at 3AM blasting their music and rattles.

No one that I know of in the competition circuits and take it seriously will do that because most of us know how annoying it is. Some of us have kids who we don't want to be wakened up in the middle of the night by some wannabe "playa/gangsta." Because of them, our community is getting a bad rap based on the few *****s who don't respect those who actually enjoy not hearing someone else's music at the stoplight or at some ungodly hour of night.

Love the last commment. We have sound dampening to get rid of those rattles which comes in the form of Dynamat, Second Skin, BrownBread, and even high temp mastic sheeting which can be bought at most home improvement stores.

Just to be a ***, some subs can't be pushed with less than 1000w because of the stiffness of the suspension and these are strictly competition subs. MTX RFLs and Shocker Signiture Series come to mind immediately. The also have no way to dissipate the heat so they burn up when playing more than short tone bursts; no music playing on them at all...Sorry, just had to provide an exception to that one statement.:rolleyes:

It's all good. I respect the people who can debate on this matter instead of throwing hissy fits. Exchange of information and ideas comes from expressing them and testing theories.

Hearing damage begins well below what we percieve as loud. Our ears are more accute to the 1kHz to 3kHz range which is why 120db at 60Hz is tolarable and 120db at 3kHz will make you keel over in pain.

Also, bass frequencies travel much further and are able to penetrate better than higher frequencies which is why they are so damn annoying to most people. Most of car audio amounts to bragging rights to some degree but there is a time and place for it. Obviously, 177.7db at a stoplight is not something that should be done (that is the current SPL record by Team BS at the Db Drag world finals, BTW).

Im sorry, I assumed he wanted to actually listen to music on his stereo. Silly me!

I appreciate your refreshing attitude towards my tirade. I'm just afraid that I am becoming totally out of touch whith what is cool anymore and I needed to vent. <deep breath> I'm much better now, thanks!. :grinthumb

That's exactly my point, some subs are just too stiff to be powered by a low wattage amp. That's exactly the case with the 15" L7, 300 watts just wont' "cut it". :rolleyes: Being the competitor you are, I would expect you to know that.

Any single speaker that would take more than 300 watts to play at safe volume levels in a car is a piece of crap, improperly installed or one of them there "competiton" subs where the competition seems to be who can display the greatest disregard for actual functionality. If the goal is instantanious, high-level output why not just run the leads from the amp directly into the gas tank?

Moral of the story - Ditch both the speaker and the amp and get something more sensible instead.

directorj17 - I bet you've already given up on all this discussion. Just look at what you started.

I'd say, Keep the amp, get a 12" sub that doesn't have the same power needs of a 15" L7. All along the problem hasn't been wether 300 watts is good for sound in a car, I'd say it's plenty of power to give you some good bass at a reasonable volume level. The problem is using it to power a 15" L7. Like godataloss said, it's about listening to the bass at safe levels. A 15" L7 can go way beyond safe levels given the right amount of power, that's what it's intended for. Remember the original question: Is my amp(300 watts) big enough? Yes, it's big enough for good bass, just not big enough for a 15" L7.

The suspension isn't that stiff. If all he wants is some low end extention then while maintaining SQ, then 300w is perfectly fine. If he wants to take full use of the driver's potentional, then yes, another 1000w would accomplish that. I fail to see where it asks "Will my setup be loud?"

I'll get into how power consumption is a function of frequency, if you want, and then introduce cabin gain due to wave refraction. Also, you have to take into account the preout voltage of the RCA outputs on the head unit as well as the vehicle in which it's in. Ever seen the video of Team Xtreme (I think, can't remember since it has been awhile) with two 6.5" Audiobahns hitting ~146db with only 200w going to them in a VW Golf hatchback? This was verified on a Termlab mic and when playing music it maintained its SQ with no problem. It shows exactly why 90% is install.

Nic hits it on the head. The equipment he is asking about will be more challenging to make sound good than other products out there. I surmise this person only wanted some bass in his car and someone either tried to sell him the equipment or he found a good price at a dealer. Answer the questions I posed in the first question and I can make a much better suggestion as to what to buy.