TechSpot

Need help troubleshooting random crashes

By Tyrre
Dec 18, 2006
  1. Allright, here I go. Since I've spent a long time now trying to figure this out by myself and searching the web for answers but I couldnt find any, I turn to this forum with hopes of anybody else who had the same problem can help me.

    My Computer:

    OS: Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2
    CPU: Intel Pentium 4, 3000 MHz
    Motherboard: Asus P4P800 Deluxe
    RAM: 1.5 Gb
    Graphic Card: NVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT (256 MB) (AGP)

    My Problem:
    If I run my computer at the standard specifications (see above) I keep geting the famous BSOD's or reboots every now and then. It actually has gotten worse over time and I cant even get into windows anymore. Safe mode works like a charm and is no problem. Now you might think that I have bad drivers but that is not the case since I actually updated my drivers. (Graphic card, sound card, network card). I have tried to put my RAM sticks in there 1 by 1 with no good luck, I keep getting BSOD's or reboots. I tried reinstalling windows, no luck here either, I actually got BSOD once I installed. Eventually I managed to install windows without getting any BSOD. I've tried changing my PSU and my graphic card, same result.

    My "Solution":
    Ok, heres what I can do to run my computer. My computer runs perfect in safe mode, OR if i run it at 2000 MHz. Not long ago I could even run it at 2500 MHz. Now this got me thinking that it could be a CPU heat problem so I went and bought a new CPU fan. Installed it and tried to run my cpu at default specs. Bam, BSOD.
    My temp @ 2000 MHz idle: 34 C
    My temp @ 2500 MHz idle: 38 C
    My temp @ 3000 MHz idle: 41 C
    (Temps monitored in bios, Forgot to say that I can sit in bios without the computer restarting @ 3000 MHz)

    My head is getting red and im loosing hair from all the scratching. Is it my CPU who is failing or is it my motherboard? Before all this started I had VERY high temp on my cpu (70 C while playing games, 50 C Idle) and was about to get a new cpu fan but I guess I was to late. But what Is bothering me is that I can run safe mode with no problems at 3000 MHz.

    I really need help with this one, I have my 20 cents on the cpu but It could also be the motherboard. Im all out of ideas!

    If theres anything you wanna know, just ask. Many thanks

    Moderator Edit: Thread title changed. Please use descriptive titles. Thank you.
     
  2. DonNagual

    DonNagual TechSpot Ambassador Posts: 3,566

    Hello there, and welcome to techspot!

    Now, sit down, relax, grab a nice hot cup of tea, dim the lights and play some soft music. Relax..... feel the love.... feelin' better?

    OK, now pop in some classic Metallica, shoot some Black Label Johnny Walker and let's get to work! :)

    First thing I'd do is test your ram just to rule that out. Download and run www.memtest.org and unzip it to a floppy disk. It runs from dos. Let it run for 6 or 7 passes (takes a few hours) and see if it produces any errors.

    Also, take a look in your event viewer and see if it is reporting any system or software errors in there. Right click on "my computer" and select "manage" then "event viewer". Browse through the 3 categories there and look for red X's.

    Let us know what you find. You can also click on the "random crashes" link in my signature for more troubleshooting tips.

    Good luck!
     
  3. TimeParadoX

    TimeParadoX TS Rookie Posts: 2,438

    Lol what the hell? :haha:

    Run the Memtest that DonNagual linked and run it all night for it takes about 3-4 hours depending on how many test you run so go watch a Movie or own some noobs on Xbox ;)
     
  4. Tyrre

    Tyrre TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Thanks for the replies, My problem here is that I cant run that program since I got no floppy. Is it possible to run it through dvd? I allready run another memtest program but that was one that runs through windows. Didnt report any problems.

    Edit: As I stated I tried all the 4 diffrent rams single and I got the same problem with them all, Could It be that all my ram is damaged? Or yet again, maybe my motherboard.

    Edit #2: Found out that theres actually an ISO file so im gonna run it for a few hours to se what I get.

    Edit #3:
    This is what I found of intrest that I dont know what it is, Im from sweden so its in swedish Ill translate as good as I can :)

    Program log: "Felaktigt program wgatray.exe, version 1.5.554.0, felaktig modul legitcheckcontrol.dll, version 1.5.554.0, felaktig adress 0x0003371d.

    Mer information finns i Hjälp- och supportcenter på sidan http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp."

    Basically it says wrong program wgatray.exe wrong module wrong adress
     
  5. kwspony

    kwspony TS Enthusiast Posts: 159

    Are you running any new assessories? I don't understand Swedish but I see what looks like .dll file problems. Have you tried uninstalling any devices? How about looking at the dump file. When you get the BSOD does it say it is creating a dump file. You should be able to get some useful info there.

    Check this out.
    http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dll-files.shtml?legitcheckcontrol
     
  6. Tyrre

    Tyrre TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Ok, heres a little update on my problem. I think I've figured out what wgatray.exe is and why it was in my program log. So, that leaves me with no errors in the event viewer.

    I've tried running the memory test a few times now, first with all 4 of my RAM sticks, then with just 2 of them, and now im gonna give the other 2 a try. The problem here is that memtest stops working. It dosent even run 1 pass. So im gonna try the last two sticks and see if they can give me a full run without stop. Anybody know why this happends? Damaged RAM's?

    kwspony, No new assessories when this problem started, I was running fine with my computer and then just one day it started. No new hardware or software. And I dont think it says it is creating a dump file, and even if it did I wouldnt know how to look at it properly.

    These BSOD's are really anoying but I noticed I dont get them when running the CPU at 2000 MHz, I only get reboots. BSOD only appear when I run at full speed. Anyway im off now to try the other 2 ram sticks.
     
  7. Tyrre

    Tyrre TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Ok, Im back. Unfortunally with bad news. The other 2 ram sticks didnt make any diffrence. What happends is that the test stops and the counter under walltimer stops ticking. From what I can tell it stops at test #7, random numbers. Since I cant run a full memtest I cant tell if my RAM has any errors, So what should I do!? This is getting really anoying :(
     
  8. DonNagual

    DonNagual TechSpot Ambassador Posts: 3,566

    Memtest freezes? Go into your bios and disable USB legacy support. There is a known bug that causes memtest to freeze if you have it enabled, that might fix you up.

    Also, do a physical inspection of your motherboard's capacitors. Are any of them swollen or leaking? Like in this picture here:
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Tyrre

    Tyrre TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Allright DonNagual! Im making progress :D Disabling USB Legacy support did the trick and I run memtest for 3 passes, but withouth any errors. Im gonna run it over night so I let it run a little longer. I also did a physical check on my motherboard and judging from your picture I dont have any leaking capacitors. So if I dont get any errors on my memory this night, I guess it could be my CPU that is causing the problem if you dont have any other sugestions. Ill be looking forward to hear more from you.

    Been doing some thinking, It cant be my PSU can it? Since I tried my old PSU (There where never any problem with this one) with my old graphic card and got the same problem.

    Edit: Its a 480W Codegen PSU with 16 and 18A on the 12V rails. I know this is a little low on the amp but It worked fine before. I also know that the PSU can gradually get worse, but then again I have the same problem with my old PSU.
     
  10. DonNagual

    DonNagual TechSpot Ambassador Posts: 3,566

    Well if you tried the other PSU and had the same problems, then it is likely not a PSU problem, unless of course BOTH psus you are testing are either faulty, or underpowered.

    That 480w Codegen looks like it has enough watts and amps to power your system. Let's try this just to rule it out: Download and run speedfan and tell us what it reports for your voltages on the +3.3v, +5v and +12v rails.

    Assuming the PSU is fine, it's time to start checking your mini-dumps. Please read through this thread here:
    http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic51365.html
     
  11. Tyrre

    Tyrre TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Allright, got back from work and memtest have been running over night and during work. It run through 16 passes and reported 0 errors, but when I came home it had stopped. I was reading this among else on my screen:

    Unexpected interupt - Halting

    Type: Inv_Op
    PC: 00100002
    CS: 00000010
    EF lag: 00010016
    Code: 00000000

    Going to download speedfan and check out what it reads.

    Edit: Reports from speedfan.

    3.3V reads around 3.38V
    5V reads 4.99V
    12V reads 11.92V

    Allright, so I'll attach some minidumps, but just a question, How can it be I can run my computer at lower cpu speed with no bluescreens and only restarts or sometimes with no problem at all and then when I run at full speed it dosent even load windows, I get BSOD instead? I cant figure that out! GAH, ok, here they are. Since I cant reproduce a BSOD from within windows they are kinda old.

    hmmm, after looking through the minidumps myself, many seem to refer to atapi.sys, Could It be my HD or IDE cable?
     

    Attached Files:

     
  12. DonNagual

    DonNagual TechSpot Ambassador Posts: 3,566

    I've sent a PM to cpc2004 (our resident minidump guru) on your behalf to come and have a look.

    In the meantime, let's keep on troubleshooting :)

    When you lower your CPU frequency, how are you doing this? By adjusting the FSB?
     
  13. Tyrre

    Tyrre TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Yes, by adjusting FSP from 200 wich is original to 133 or 166. I noticed something intresting today actually, the memory runs faster (333 MHz) if i run my cpu at 2000 MHz and only runs at 320 MHz when I run cpu at full speed. Also, when I only have 2 of the ram's, no matter wich ones, they run at 400 MHz. They are 2 diffrent types of memorys but both can be run at 400 MHz, is this normal?
     
  14. DonNagual

    DonNagual TechSpot Ambassador Posts: 3,566

    Is your system also stable when running with only 2 sticks? If so, then that may be a good temporary fix. What do you mainly use your computer for? There are not many applications that require more than 1Gb of ram anyways.

    Have you done any overclocking in the past? In particular, did you adjust any of your ram timings? It may be that they are too "tight". If you haven't already tried this, reset your bios by using the jumpers on your board (or removing the CMOS battery if your board doesn't have CMOS jumpers) to reset all your timings to default.

    Also, have you updated your bios? It may also be that your boards current bios doesn't handle 3 sticks of ram well, and a bios update has solved the problem.
     
  15. Tyrre

    Tyrre TS Rookie Topic Starter

    No, my system isnt stable when running with 2 sticks. I mainly use my computer for games :) Never did any overclocking. Never adjusted ram timings. I havent updated my bios, But shouldnt be needed since that cant be the problem because it worked perfect before. Didnt do anything out of the ordinary and then one day all hell broke loose.
     
  16. Tyrre

    Tyrre TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Any other thoughts about my problem? :) I want to take the time to wish you all happy holidays to, and thank you for your time so far.
     
  17. DonNagual

    DonNagual TechSpot Ambassador Posts: 3,566

    Hmmm. This one is starting to stump me as well.

    Let's keep moving on, and hopefully we'll find something.

    Have you checked your "event viewer" to see what windows is reporting there?
    Right click on "my computer" then "manage" then "event viewer". There are three categories there. Browse through them and look for error messages "red Xs" and see if we can find some hints in there.

    Also, go ahead and run a diagnostic on your hard drive. What make is it? Go to the makers site and see if they have diagnostic software for you there. If not, maxtor claims their diagnostic tool works on all hard drives:
    http://www.maxtor.com/portal/site/M...oftware Downloads/All Downloads&downloadID=22

    Is your ram PC3200? Are all sticks the same?
     
  18. Tyrre

    Tyrre TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Yeah, I checked my event viewer as you told me to earlier, And yes, I did run a HD check, one of the first things I did. Reported no problems :S 2 of my sticks are pc3200, the other 2 Im not 100 % sure about.
     
  19. DonNagual

    DonNagual TechSpot Ambassador Posts: 3,566

    That would be a good thing to confirm actually. What are those other two sticks? If they are not rated at 400Mhz, that would explain why you are unstable when you put your FSB to 200Mhz. You can use that CPUz program to find out what those 2 sticks of ram are.

    Wait a minute. You said you are also unstable with only 2 sticks. Are those two sticks the PC3200 that you are unstable with?
     
  20. howdyhowy

    howdyhowy TS Rookie Posts: 46

    Hello Tyrre, Welcome to the forum:) I read everything here and it sounds like a heating problem..I have the same board and I had the same problem too..You need to change the thermal pad out to thermal paste under your chipset cooler.Also check every chip on your board for heat,if it even gets warm then you need to stick cool fins on them with me it was the southbridge chip..Also check on the left side of cpu where the regulators are,you know they are in the picture.Like I said if it even gets warm then stick a fin on it..look at my gallery if you want to see my set up and benchmarks:)..I'll keep looking at your thred
     
  21. Tyrre

    Tyrre TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Hello howdyhowy! Allright, I read what you say here but Im not following. I need to change the thermal pad out to thermal paste? What do you mean by that? Also, stick cool fins on? whats that :) Whats a fin. And where can I look at your gallery? Theres some relife in me when I see someone that had the same problem and solved it. Cheers.
     
  22. howdyhowy

    howdyhowy TS Rookie Posts: 46

    Hi again, The gallery button is on the top of this page,then you click on members gallery then you look for my name:)..Further with your problem is the first thing I would do is to change the thermal pad on your cooler on your chipsets then replace it with thermal paste( silver5 is a good one)that is to take the cooler off your chipset,its in the middle of your motherboard.Then you feel ALL the chips on your board to see if it get warm or hot.Follow me so far? Fins are very small coolers for a memory chip for a grafic card,you can buy them in a computer store,I use them to stick them on little chips on your board.They work very good thats why I can overclock my system so high and for so long..Heat is the big enemy for chips it will slow them down or even burn them up if you dont get it cooled down..:) let me know if you understood what I wrote so far.
     
  23. hockeydood

    hockeydood TS Rookie

    I have the exact same thing happing to me. I have tryed everything and cant seem to get it to fix. Im pretty sure its not a over heating problem cause it will only do it to me while my system is not workin hard. if i have a game aplication open i can have my computer up all day long. if im only surfing the web or listening to music then it will just shut off after a bit.
     
  24. howdyhowy

    howdyhowy TS Rookie Posts: 46

    "I cant even get into windows anymore",Does yours do that??
     
  25. Tyrre

    Tyrre TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Bad news, my computer died the other day. Booted up, got into windows, system hang, I pressed reboot button and it will no longer post on startup :( So now im looking for a new setup. Any recomendations?
     
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