Power supply (PSU) concerns

By truffles
Mar 5, 2002
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  1. cubecompMTDX

    cubecompMTDX Newcomer, in training Posts: 88

    The reviewers that posted the reviews about it being a few years old was in the "more than 1 year" ownership category. This unit boasts all of the cables I need for my configuration. The SATA cable works just fine on it. And I still have 1 molex connector to spare. My graphics card doesn't have a external power connector on it for extra power. Click on the drop-down menu to see my specs.
  2. kimsland

    kimsland Ex-TechSpotter Posts: 18,353

  3. cubecompMTDX

    cubecompMTDX Newcomer, in training Posts: 88

    Update on the Dynapower unit... It's still chugging along just fine. Pretty much runs 24/7 ever since it was installed into the system for the first time. The other day, we had some bad winter weather that caused a transformer in our neighborhood to blow causing our power to black out for about 2 seconds and surge back... My system with the dynapower unit... all I had to do was turn the system back on, no problem... my parent's system with the Antec unit, turned back on, system turned on but did nothing else, not even a signal to the monitor... had to open up and do some work in order to get the system back up and running. Not sure if it was the PSU's fault though but the CMOS had to be cleared for some reason. It's running okay now.

    But I do know a unit that anybody should stay away from... (this is for people who shop around at places that scrap parts and resell them, like the Goodwill Computer Works place near where I live (Charlotte, NC)
    The unit is eMachine's Bestec ATX-250-12E-Rev. P7, opened up a unit that I bought just to see if GCW tests their equipment or not before they sell it... didn't even test it, just opened up to find a blown Primary. The unit was lightly used as well. Another one to stay away from is FSP's mATX 300w unit. Has had multiple failures (referring to newegg's reviews), and had one myself that wasn't a Fortron Source Partners unit, instead, it was a Fireworks Source Partner unit. It was a brand new spark thrower due to something in the primary blowing up as well just like the Bestec Unit.
  4. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,280   +23

    Bestecs are notorious for being of rubbish quality. Not all FSP units are bad however.
  5. Quantex_rox

    Quantex_rox Newcomer, in training Posts: 152

    Well, bestecs aren't completely terrible, they are capable of their rated specs, its that they use low quality parts in some areas. Particularity Jamicon and TK capacitors on the secondary side, and right next to the +5vsb transformer is a little capacitor, usually 22@50 that will go bad and cause the +5vsb to overload and blow out your southbridge. Once recapped, some can be good little units, most use bridge recitifiers inplace of the 4 diodes cheap manufactures use, and already have Panisonic (matsushita) primary capacitors.

    On badcaps, we have recapped many bestecs and they are decent afterwards. One guy even redesigned the +5vsb circut, and uses it in a backup system.

    You gotta watch out for FSP though, they are cheaper, but they work and are capable of their ratings. Most of the time their efficiency is low, and the caps are usually of the OST variety.
  6. Quantex_rox

    Quantex_rox Newcomer, in training Posts: 152

    Huntkey are major junk. I believe they are made by Deer/L&C (ALLIED)

    Rocketfish=Dynex=Crap. Just another bestbuy inhouse brand, Bad capacitors (the dreaded Fujiyuu that plauged so many Antecs,) inadequate heatsinks, low CFM fan, non-APFC.
  7. cubecompMTDX

    cubecompMTDX Newcomer, in training Posts: 88

    Here's what I currently have in my system...

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817255040

    Only $25

    Has a lot of output cables on it (but doesn't have PCIe cables, will need adapters if you're running video cards that have these connections).
    Weighs more than some Antec units that I have used in the past. Weighs in as much, if not more than the Huntkey units
    Has a huge efficient heatsink on the primary that is right under the 80mm intake fan.
    Has Power Output Filtration, and possibly an EMI filter. Has a cool looking UV reactive sleeve on the main connector.
    Has temperature controlled fans
    Not the most efficient (65%+) but does the job

    I have 2 of these, and they work very well.
  8. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,280   +23

    Weight is not a good way to measure the quality of a PSU. Internal quality is the #1 determining factor of that. However, for the average consumer, brand name and website reviews are the only thing that count.

    And a high efficiency saves you money, not only on your electricity bill, but on a new PSU (and possibly a PC) as well, since low efficiency PSUs waste power in the only way possible: heat output. If there is no sufficient cooling (which will be the case in most sub-$40 PSUs), all the capacitors overheat and, in the case of crappy caps like Fuhjyyu ones, they blow and send a huge surge of current through the rails, frying almost everything connected to the PSU.

    Just because a Dynapower works for you does not make it a good recommendation. They flat-out LIE on the labels and as mentioned before, they come with bogus UL numbers. I would even recommend a Rosewill PSU over a Dynapower, owing to the huge difference in quality between the two.
  9. Quantex_rox

    Quantex_rox Newcomer, in training Posts: 152

    Hmmm, that UL number on it dosen't show up in the UL database.

    Thats not a efficient heatsink, its a big flat piece of aluminum, if it is to be efficient, it needs to have fins and not cover all the other components to trap heat under it.

    And its not 1998 anymore, you don't need 42A on the 5v and 32A on the 3.3v, with a measly 20A on the 12v.

    I think there is a typo on it, too, on 115v it uses 60A???? Holy crap!
  10. cubecompMTDX

    cubecompMTDX Newcomer, in training Posts: 88

    Well I showed the PSU to my friend Tim who has worked on computers for about 25 years, he believes that the unit is good quality. And Quantex_rox, it sounds like you were judging the PSU by what was posted on Newegg... you have to see this unit in person to get a better judgment of it. The heatsink inside this unit is not just a piece of aluminum. It is half a cm thick and rises off of regulators or MOSFETs and curves and runs horizontally under the intake fan. The heatsink has big holes drilled in it for air to pass through coming from the intake fan. And the unit runs very cool, nothing gets hot in it. And the 60A is a typo, it should say 6A. IDK if my computer would put a very huge load on it,
    but my system has this PSU,
    2 optical drives,
    2 SATA HDDs in RAID-1,
    floppy,
    card reader,
    ECS NFORCE9M-A mobo,
    Athlon X2 4200+ Brisbane CPU,
    4GB of DDR2-800 GeIL RAM,
    ATI Radeon HD 3450 graphics 256MB,
    Hauppauge WinTV HVR1250 MC Digital HDTV tuner,
    secondary ethernet PCI card,
    dual Cold Cathode lights,
    5 cooling fans,
    Heatpipe CPU cooler,
    and that's about it.

    I have heard things about bogus UL numbers on these, but When I buy a PSU, which I usually get units from Newegg, I go by what customers who had bought the unit in the past say about the unit. I know this particular unit doesn't have that many customer reviews on it... yet I had bought another one of Dynapower's 500w units in the past... and by what customers that had owned the unit for 2+ years say about it... (when they list their specs, how they use their computer (e.g. runs 24-7-365), and I hardly see any reviews about it blowing up, frying systems, catching fire like the Logisys 575w units do... that tells you that the unit has had a good reputation. And when I get good experience from one of their units, and they release something new... sure i'm going to give their new unit a try. I highly agree with you guys on what you say though, but I cannot afford to empty my wallet on name brand PSUs, so I have to buy generics. These links that I post aren't necessarily for the ones who can afford high-end units... if you have the money, don't buy this unit, go for the Enermax, Thermaltake, etc.!!! Those links that I post are for the ones on a tight budget who are looking for a decent PSU for a very low price. And this PSU is probably one of the best $25 units available. Look at other PSUs in the same price range from other brands... like Logisys or Coolmax, you'll see what I mean.

    LOGISYS Computer PS575XBK 575W ATX12V SLI Ready Power Supply - Retail (costs the exact same as the Dynapower ADW-500 unit, but is much cheaper made, look at the reviews!
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817170017

    TOPOWER ZU-400W 400W ATX12V V2.0 Power Supply - OEM another $25 fire hazard
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817101035

    The units above are only 2 examples - there are plenty more on Newegg!
  11. Quantex_rox

    Quantex_rox Newcomer, in training Posts: 152

    If you really want to know the quality, open it up. Show me some pictures of the inside, I will show you pictures of a good built SMPS

    Ever heard of a guy, use to go by jonnyguru, reviewed power supplies. Look at his power supplies, look at the 500w's he reviews. Look at the insides and components of the ones he gives good reviews too.

    www.jonnyguru.com

    http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDArticles&op=Story&ndar_id=7

    more specifically, read these. The thing he finds most irritating is when someone comes storming in "I work on computers bla bla bla so I instantly know everything and you know nothing."

    Now, Im not saying your friend dosen't know anything about power supplies, maybe he does, but its the mentality that people have that just because a person who works with computers says something is good, dosen't mean it is. Look at GeekSquad, they tried to sell me a Rocketfish power supply saying its better than any PC power and Cooling.
     
  12. cubecompMTDX

    cubecompMTDX Newcomer, in training Posts: 88

    I wasn't saying that it was as good as the expensive PSUs. My friend Tim knows exactly how PSUs work. He works on computers and all sorts of other electronics like CB radios, etc. No this unit does not have things like APFC. Like I previously mentioned...

    "These links that I post aren't necessarily for the ones who can afford high-end units... if you have the money, don't buy this unit, go for the Enermax, Thermaltake, etc.!!! Those links that I post are for the ones on a tight budget who are looking for a decent PSU for a very low price. And this PSU is probably one of the best $25 units available."

    The PSU powers my computer reliably, and that's all that I need.

    Now FYI those people at geek squad are probably required to say that Best Buy's brand of PSUs are better in order to keep their job. I may be getting a job there part-time this summer after I graduate out of high school, before I start college in the fall. If I do get the job, i'll confirm how geek squad markets B.B.'s products. To be honest, the only thing of B.B.'s Dynex brand that is actually well-priced and actually works well is their silver thermal compound... it works better than A.S. Ceramique. Everything else is overpriced crap. Their PSUs are crap. I was using a HuntKey "Dynex" 400w unit(I didn't buy it, it was a little used), and it had a capacitor fail within 5 months of use, put out tons of heat, has much smaller heatsinks than my Dynapower unit that I previously mentioned, even has smaller heatsinks than Bestec's ATX-250 PSUs! And they want $80 for the piece of junk
  13. alienuser09

    alienuser09 Newcomer, in training Posts: 23

    Looking for Replacement PSU ASAP

    My PSU just died and now I'm looking for a suitable replacement.

    Current PSU Info:

    Model: HPC-420-302 DF
    ATX 12V
    Active PFC

    Input: 115V at 10A, 230V at 5A

    Outputs: +5V at 40A, +3.3V at 30A (+5V & +3.3V combined should not exceed 220W), +12V at 18A (should not exceed 216W), -5V at 0.3A (15W), -12V at 0.8A (6.9W), +5VSB at 2A (10W)

    Connectors: (1) 20 pin ATX main power
    (1) 4 pin ATX 12V power
    (9) Molex 4 pin peripheral
    (3) floppy drive power
    (1) 6 pin aux power
    (1) 3 pin fan speed monitor

    Can anyone recommend a quality 450 watt PSU that meets these specs and has all the required connectors? I can't seem to find this particular model anymore (system was built in 2004), and wading through the specs of the various PSU's available out there is getting confusing since not all the connectors seem to be listed or are described differently...

    Thanks for any info!!
  14. cubecompMTDX

    cubecompMTDX Newcomer, in training Posts: 88

    The one that I use would work just fine in your configuration, not to mention looks attractive as well.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817255040

    Others have replied to me about the brand of this unit having faulty UL numbers, but the unit is powering my build just fine. This one has similar amperage ratings as the unit that died on you, but it is rated for 500w. Yet this one does not have a fan speed monitor cable or an aux connector(because it got phased out) It has 6 molex connectors... 20/24pin main connector, ATX 12v connector, 2 SATA connectors, and 2 floppy connections. This would be a great choice if this unit boasts enough connections for your rig you're on a tight budget, because this is probably the best you can get for $25 compared to other PSUs with the same price(read my previous posts). Though if you are willing to put more money into a PSU, go for something with an 80+ certification. Though i'm not sure if there are many units left with the AUX connector. I have an older Antec SmartPower 350w unit that's sitting around collecting dust that has an aux connector, fan speed monitor, 7 molex, 2 floppy, 20pin main. It is lightly used. If 350watts will work, then I'll sell it cheap if you really need one.
  15. alienuser09

    alienuser09 Newcomer, in training Posts: 23

    I'm fine with spending the cash for a reliable unit. Going to have to find out just how many and which connectors are in use right now. From what you say, if the aux power is in use, it looks like I may have a problem finding a suitable unit. Unfortunately, I don't think the 350 watt will work since it's got a lot of power-hungry components in it (they were high-end stuff back when the system was built in 2004).
  16. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,280   +23

    Just grab an Antec EA430 or an OCZ SXS500W and this adapter.

    What are your system specs BTW?
  17. alienuser09

    alienuser09 Newcomer, in training Posts: 23

    Got the new power supply (ended up going with an Enermax). System is back up and running. Thanks for the suggestions!
  18. vanguardfox

    vanguardfox Newcomer, in training

    good work. enermax's efficiency and reliability is hard to beat.
  19. Quantex_rox

    Quantex_rox Newcomer, in training Posts: 152

    Someone at jonnyguru.com just roasted one of these alive. It only output 272W (rated at 430W) before sparking and puking its guts all over.

    They have no input filter. No power factor correction at all, that dosen't mean it has passive PFC, it has absolutely NO PFC. Extremely questionable quality of caps of very small value (Fujiyuu primaries, JunFu and Koshin secondaries) Group regulation. Still has the -5v that was dropped a long time ago from the ATX specification. For the 12v, it only had 4 wires from the pcb that they just kept splicing them off to the connectors. It has no 3.3v sense as required by the ATX spec. Even my deer built rosewill that came with my 25 dollar case has this.

    These power supplies are manufactured by a company called power tech, they don't have any models on their site that say they have temperature controlled fans so your out of luck and they are lying to you. Only have short circuit protection, no OVP or OCP.

    Then there is the rectifier. There is no bridge rectifier (what converts input voltage from AC to DC) instead it uses the cheaper 4 diode method. While the diodes work just as well as a bridge rectifier, the ones used are not of high enough value. They are only capable of about 350W. Thats input power. If the psu is 65% efficient, that means the output power can't be higher than 227.5W.

    Just to let you know, that 575W logisys, far from a actual 575W, is much more superior to dynapowerUSA psu's, in the fact that it has larger heatsinks, more output filter caps of a little better size, a actual bridge rectifier, and passive pfc.

    The Topower is miles ahead of the Logisys, too, while I wouldn't recommend it, it is 10x better than any dynapowerUSA. Even deer/solytech/allied/apex/L&C/Austin/Cheetah psu's are more superior to them. My old 500W solytech rosewill is actually well made. Deer has really made a 180 in terms of quality, it has a full input filter with 2 X capacitors and 4 Y capacitors, and 2 coils. Has passive pfc, a input rectifier capable of 10A, good sized heatsinks, large transformer capable of 480W total output, large value output capacitors (YC brand, not the worst, but not the best).
  20. Quantex_rox

    Quantex_rox Newcomer, in training Posts: 152


    I believe the EA430 is a seasonic? The OCZ is just a Andyson, same as BFG. Not bad, but not the best either. Definitely the EA430.
  21. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,280   +23

    The OCZ is actually FSP, based on the notorious Epsilon units, so they have extremely high out-of-spec ripple at 80% or greater load. But keep the +12V rails below that load, and you have a very good PSU for the price.

    The EA430 used to be made by Seasonic, but are now made by Delta. It's impossible to tell which is which since most sites don't differentiate between the EA430 and the EA430D. Still, Delta is a pretty good OEM; they've made excellent server PSUs for many years now.
  22. Quantex_rox

    Quantex_rox Newcomer, in training Posts: 152

    They are made by delta now? Delta isn't a pretty good OEM. They are by far one of the best.

    I think its funny the earthwatts line is almost all delta, while most of the truepower new is still seasonic. I just won a seasonic built TP550 on newegg.

    FSP needs to start using some better and more secondary caps to filter out the ripple. The Andyson BFG 1000W jonnyguru reviewed has major ripple issues, and that was solved by putting two UCC 2200uf caps in the modular connector.
  23. raybay

    raybay TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 10,716   +6

    Delta is a huge company... one of the biggest builders of common, everyday power supplies... They also make the Antec Basiq as well as the Earthwatts... we have seen many failures in both... We do not agree that Delta is one of the best... they certainly make Dell, HP, and Lenovo happy, but their power supplies have a very frequent failure rate... I do agree that they are good on every day home basic computers... but would not want one in a 24 hours office operation... ever.

    There really should be a new standard of power supplies for those used in gaming an image design... but the power supply companies will never come together on them.

    You don't see Ripple have negative affects except in gaming on high speed motherboards... They rarely cause failures or burn outs.... so Ripple is of concern to a very small subset of users...

    By the way, for people do not know, you can check our your power supply by using the UL information on the sticker.
  24. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,280   +23

    The ripple will actually kill components over time, but since it only appears at very high load, it isn't a problem for most users, unless you are loading it to that point. It can even be high enough appear as static\hissing in the speakers\headphones, if you are using the onboard sound ports.

    ATX spec dictates a ripple tolerance of 120mV, but the FSP Epsilon-based series exceed this by a large amount, having potentially catastrophic results.
  25. Quantex_rox

    Quantex_rox Newcomer, in training Posts: 152


    The basiqs are low end fsp's (barf), not deltas.

    I think you are just making assumptions about delta, on jonnyguru, all the delta based antecs have extremely low ripple even at full load (due to being extremely overbuilt, such as the cp850 with 300A of capacity for a 68A 12v rail.) They also use high quality capacitors and high quality fans.

    Ripple is what causes failures of motherboards. So your saying its just fine to have 13v on the 12v rail? No, it will blow everything connected. It matters to both office/home computers and high performance computers. If this dell with a foxconn made motherboard and a 300W delta psu I am currently using was to dip below the atx spec on the ripple, the psu would shut itself down (due to the delta's OVP, OCP, and UCP) Same as a high performance computer.


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