Qualcomm's next-gen Arm SoC runs Windows, can beat Intel and Apple in some applications...

Bob O'Donnell

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Something to look forward to: After years of monotony and relative stasis in the PC industry, things are starting to change. And man, it's getting exciting again! Earlier this year, AMD launched the Ryzen 7040, the first PC SoC with a built-in NPU (Neural Processing Unit) – otherwise known as an AI accelerator. Then a few weeks ago, Intel debuted its Core Ultra chip featuring its own AI accelerator. Now Qualcomm is putting an exclamation point on the AI PC trend with the launch of its Snapdragon X Elite SoC for PCs.

Not only does the Snapdragon X Elite feature a powerful NPU – it has about 4X the raw performance of AMD and Intel NPUs when measured on a TOPs (Tera Operations per Second) basis – it also marks the long-awaited debut of the Oryon CPU.

Based on tech that Qualcomm acquired years back from a company called Nuvia, Oryon is an Arm-based CPU that offers surprisingly strong capabilities. In this first implementation, Qualcomm is combining 12 CPU cores running at 3.8 GHz (two can boost up to 4.3 GHz) and building the chip on a 4 nm process.

Interestingly, while Qualcomm is initially using Oryon for PCs, they expect this to become the CPU core in future generation of chips dedicated to mobile, automotive, XR and other applications as well.

The Snapdragon X Elite benchmarks that Qualcomm showed off at a recent event have the Oryon-equipped chips beating the speed of Apple's M2 Max chip in single-threaded performance or match its multi-threaded performance with 30% less power.

It can also beat the Intel's Core i9-13980HX in single-threaded performance or match its multi-threaded performance at 70% less power (all Qualcomm's numbers and tests, of course).

For multi-threaded performance, the numbers were equally impressive, with Qualcomm saying it was 50% better than Apple's M2 and up to 2x faster than some Intel CPUs.

There's no doubt that it's an impressive leap forward in performance and brings a new sense of relevancy to Arm-based PCs… or it will.

As with everything in the computing world, your mileage may vary depending on the specific applications you need to run. But there's no doubt that it's an impressive leap forward in performance and brings a new sense of relevancy to Arm-based PCs… or it will, that is, when systems sporting the Snapdragon X Elite become available sometime around the middle of next year.

In addition to impressive new CPU capabilities, the AI acceleration features of Snapdragon X Elite are generating a lot of buzz across the PC industry. While most of the GenAI focus until now has been on cloud-based applications and services, it's becoming increasingly clear that the possibility of running foundation model-powered LLMs and other GenAI applications directly on local hardware is coming much sooner than expected.

Qualcomm said that it will be able to run GenAI models with up to 13 billion parameters directly on PCs with Snapdragon X Elite. This opens up the potential for a number of very powerful applications, including things like Meta's Llama 2, Stable Diffusion, and more, running locally.

Running LLMs and other GenAI models directly on the device offers security and privacy enhancements versus running them in the cloud, particularly for digital assistant and other types of future applications that can leverage the work you do on your PC. Plus, for certain applications that are trained specifically for PCs, many AI experts have said you'll even be able to get better performance locally than from a cloud-based version. Of course, in some situations, there's little doubt that the full power of cloud computing will be a better choice, but it's definitely not always going to be the case – and that's a big step forward in credibility for AI PCs.

Also read: Qualcomm lives to fight another day

Another aspect of the Snapdragon X Elite specs that should help its AI performance is support for LPDDR5x memory and memory transfer speeds of 136 GB/s. Many GenAI models are very memory dependent, so quick access to large amounts of memory will increasingly become an important spec to look for in AI PCs.

The new chip also sports an improved revision of Qualcomm's Adreno GPU technology, which they claim is up to 2x faster than the competitive integrated GPU offerings from Intel and AMD. In addition, it includes 4.6 TOPs of its own (for FP32, 4x that amount for FP8) – it is part of what the company says is a total system TOPS of 75 when leveraging Qualcomm's AI Engine software.

New systems with Snapdragon X Elite will have the ability to include 5G support – both for sub-6 and mmWave bands – if vendors choose to include a Qualcomm X65 modem that can connect via an M.2 card or be built onto the PC's motherboard. PCs can also optionally integrate the company's FastConnect 7800 WiFi chip to offer full Wi-Fi 7 support. I wish these connectivity technologies were standard instead of optional, as I've argued many times that strong connectivity is often more important than pure compute capabilities for modern work and consumer applications. Still, good to see Qualcomm making it easy to include if their PC OEM partners choose to do so.

While it won't be an easy one, it looks like the crown for the PC semiconductor industry is becoming a multi-horse race.

Finally, Qualcomm is rounding things out with an always-on Sensing Hub that integrates its own micro-NPU. This enables applications like presence detection, image processing on the webcam, and more. The Sensing Hub includes support for the company's Snapdragon Sound audio technology.

Collectively, there's little doubt that Snapdragon X Elite offers an impressive array of capabilities and adds to the momentum around AI PCs. As with all the previous generation Qualcomm-powered PC efforts, there will likely be lingering questions about software compatibility as these systems start to come to market. Thankfully, progress has been made here, with Microsoft continuing its work to ensure that all of its key offerings run natively. Qualcomm has also been working with developers like Adobe and others to make their application run efficiently on Arm architectures.

While it won't be an easy one, it looks like the crown for the PC semiconductor industry is becoming a multi-horse race.

Bob O'Donnell is the founder and chief analyst of TECHnalysis Research, LLC a technology consulting firm that provides strategic consulting and market research services to the technology industry and professional financial community. You can follow him on Twitter

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It looks like the Nuvia acquisition has breathed new life into Qualcomm's products. This is a nice leap forward for them and for Windows on ARM. I'm looking forward to the first independent benchmarks.

The CPU and GPU numbers look amazing. It's less clear to me how the additional NPU processing will help in everyday tasks. AI on the edge has been talked about for years and Apple's phones have offered powerful NPUs for several generations now. I get that it helps with image and language processing for Apple's own platform features, but I can't say I've seen any exciting 3rd party apps making use of it.
 
The real competitor is AMD, and it doesn't seem to have the specs to come even close to competing.
It'll offer vastly superior battery life, much like the 8cx line. That'll be a big deal in windows tablets. And while, obviously you cant trust OEM slides, they're comparing themselves to the 780m iGPU and claiming massive gains, so we'll have to wait and see. It COULD be a powerhouse.
 
"Not only does the Snapdragon X Elite feature a powerful NPU – it has about 4X the raw performance of AMD and Intel NPUs when measured on a TOPs (Tera Operations per Second) basis – it also marks the long-awaited debut of the Oryon CPU."

When there are actual third party reviews using software or games people actually use or play I'll believe it. Until then it's just fiction.
 
Useless for desktop computers due to compatibility woes.
For tablets yes. For laptops - maybe.

They still haven't told how much performance will be lost by x86 emulation and how much this thing will even cost or it it will be use upgradeable. Im guessing it wont be. So a soldered CPU and RAM most likely.
 
It'll offer vastly superior battery life, much like the 8cx line. That'll be a big deal in windows tablets. And while, obviously you cant trust OEM slides, they're comparing themselves to the 780m iGPU and claiming massive gains, so we'll have to wait and see. It COULD be a powerhouse.
How ? Well-balanced AMD laptops achieve battery runtime equal to or greater than the MacBook with M2 chip, consumption is also similar, ranging between 40-60w at high load. And in ARM chip design, Apple ranks above Qualcomm. You overestimate this myth that risc is more efficient than cisc.
 
The RF capabilities (5G and WiFi) are optional because it makes no sense to integrate them on the same chip with the CPU and GPU. RF requires different chip processes and geometry, and since those things will need to be another chip anyway there is no need to require them because some applications won't use them. I expect to see both in most laptops and tables, and desktop computers will get the WiFi, but data center applications and computers sold for use in high security facilities may not need either.
 
And in ARM chip design, Apple ranks above Qualcomm.

They did. Qualcomm's previous Arm CPUs, which were based on reference cores from Arm plus Qualcomm's own GPU, were competent but not outstanding. But with Qualcomm's new designs from Nuvia, a company that employed some people who previously worked on Apple Silicon, that may no longer be true. If Qualcomm's claims are to be believed, they have leapfrogged over Apple in CPU performance, and over AMD and Intel in efficiency. We'll know more when actual reviewers and users get to try these new chips.
 
Can you help me?
what ARM stands for?
arm-based, but no leg-based?
0_o
arm (originally capitalized but they now write it in lower case) was originally an acronym for Acorn RISC Machine, because the first design was done by Acorn Computer for its systems. Later that was changed to Advanced RISC Machines. It no longer officially stands for anything. In any case, it has never had anything to do with limbs. So far as I know, LEG hasn't been used as an acronym in computing.

RISC, in turn, is an acronym for Reduced Instruction Set Computer, indicating a shift away from very complicated instruction sets (the VAX was perhaps the ultimate implementation of CISC) toward a simpler architecture that could be made to run more quickly on less power. The tradeoff is that RISC code is usually less memory-efficient, something that mattered a lot in the heyday of CISC when memory was costly but less so now, and doubly so because code size is rarely the issue in the size of programs, data and visual assets are.
 
The real competitor is AMD, and it doesn't seem to have the specs to come even close to competing.

In terms of ray tracing, upscaling and AI you mean?

Excluding the 4090, and the mentioned above features their 7900 series lineup offers great rasterization performance. Their Ryzen lineups are great alternative's to Intel's as well.

 
In terms of ray tracing, upscaling and AI you mean?

Excluding the 4090, and the mentioned above features their 7900 series lineup offers great rasterization performance. Their Ryzen lineups are great alternative's to Intel's as well.
Efficiency and performance is the focus of the mentioned product. In synthetic benchmarks the M2 also looks incredible against x86 competitors, but in the real world it falls below them in most scenarios outside of Apple's closed world. Power Consumption is also very high on the ARM system.

M2 pro ->

7840U > https://www.notebookcheck.net/Frame...h-better-than-the-Intel-version.756613.0.html
 
@Shirley Dulcey
ty for the extensive explainer - kind of beauty here (CISKvsRISK)
I just moked the ARM
:)
any topic on RDRAM wlll be great
(sry if I missed it)
 
Screw Windows, I want one with Ubuntu on it!

-- The ARM versions of Ubuntu (and other ARM-supporting Linux distros) have the full set of packages compiled for ARM, so you won't be running lots of stuff under emulation. I ran an Acer Chromebook with a Tegra K1 ARM, and felt no pain from running a non-x86/x86-64 system. None at all. Even things like Slack and Zoom have ARM-native versions.

-- I did have one or two Intel bainries I wanted to run. So I did, and it was fairly painles. Back when I ran an ARM Chromebook a few years back, qemu already provided adequate x86 and x86-64 emulation. Since then, MUCH better solutions have come out (both for speed and compatibility), to the point that people have demo'd running (Intel CPU) 3D games, even (Intel CPU) 3D games under Wine, with good performance. The main limitation on their demos were running on ARM systems with god-awful GPUs so they basically hit the limit of what their GPU could support.

(I'll note here, Ubuntu's Debian basis has STRONG "multi-arch" support, it has no problem whatsoever having an ARM system with some i386 or x86-64 packages installed on it, when I used qemu it meant I had a few GB of disk space used up by having, say, an ARM, i386, and x86-64 version of a few libs but it kept track of everything fine. My understanding is the newer Intel-on-ARM solutions may not require these libs if you have ARM-native ones installed.

-- Ardreno is a strong GPU, the Linux drivers are reportedly feature-complete (I.e. they have as complete of OpenGL and Vulkan support as the AMD driver, or Nvidia binary driver, etc. do, fully capable of running up through DX12.1 games, apparently even with raytracing.) And Qualcomm has specifically said now that it's feature complete the goal is to squash any bugs that affect applications or games. In contrast, to (for instance) the ARM Mali driver which as far as I can tell is good enough for keeping Android happy, it's missing numerous features.
 
Sounds amazing. I'm curious about availability and price.
And I'm not really up to date how games and every day apps work nowadays with the ARM instruction set. Is it general to have ARM binaries?
 
Sounds amazing. I'm curious about availability and price.
And I'm not really up to date how games and every day apps work nowadays with the ARM instruction set. Is it general to have ARM binaries?
Price'll be the big kicker for me too. Will they put these in some affordable machines, or put a flippable screen or something on them and price them like the Microsoft Surface; I'd love one of these but not for like $1500 for a base model.

Don't know about Windows, but Linux almost all apps are available ARM-native (both because general Linux distros like Ubuntu and Debian, OpenSuse, etc. have full ARM ports; and due to Raspberry Pi running ARM meaning people have ported their software to ARM independently of distro efforts.) I had an ARM Chromebook (Nvidia Tegra K1) a few years ago with Ubuntu running off an SDCard. When I ran a few x86-64/x86 apps under qemu I got about 1/4 to 1/2 native performance, but reportedly the newer Intel-on-ARM solutions are a bit faster than that, I've heard 1/2 to 3/4s native performance in general. The Tegra K1 was nowhere near as fast as the current Qualcomm SoCs, I would say it would have been a nuisance to be frequently running emulated apps but running mostly native with just a few emulated apps was perfectly acceptable.

Linux-side, people reported playing 3D games using emulation with no issues. But the testers didn't get to push it that hard since they were running on one of the ARM models with pretty bad GPU drivers.
(I'll note, "Ardreno" is an acronym for "Radeon", and apparently when AMD bought ATI they spun some developers for the mobile Radeon off to Qualcomm, which probably goes a long way to expalining why the Ardreno GPU is so much more capable than most ARM GPUs other than maybe the ones in the Nvidia Tegra series.)

From what I've read about Windows on ARM... finding native ARM apps is hit-and-miss. Visual Studio has had an ARM target for years, but for "Metro" apps or whatever they're calling them now; a target of compiling "real" Windows apps for ARM is pretty recent. So older software they'll have to get building on a current release of Visual Studio to get it running on ARM.

Given that I would expect the amount of available ARM-native software to increase significantly over time, as long as Microsoft doesn't change their mind in a year or two and decide to not bother with ARM again (I say again, because they had ARM models of the Surface, which they essentially abandoned, with no updates after a fairly short time. And as a nice "F.U." to their customers the final update locked secure boot down so you couldn't replace the abandoned Windows version with a better OS to get further use out of the device. I will note, a review I saw of one of the new ARM notebooks the vendor made it clear they were NOT going to lock down secure boot and lock people out of running Linux or whatever they want on these models; they are made by Lenovo, HP, Acer, Asus, etc., not Microsoft.)

People's main complaints about apps running under emulation is the hit on battery life (I.e. running at "1/2 native performance" still keeps apps pretty snappy but of course increases CPU consumption.)
 
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