Scalpers say the press treats them unfairly; they are a 'valuable industry'

[punctualturn]

I've never bought from a scalper, but I'm still going to blame them for their at best quasi-legal virtual elbowing-me-out-of-the-way using bots and fake addresses to evade retailer policies and restrictions. They aren't being prosecuted but they probably are breaking at minimum the spirit if not also the letter of the wire fraud and computer fraud and abuse act statutes.

So in the end, the same excuses, the same circular “reasons”, etc.

again, is a very simple concept, nobody buys from them, those things will magically show up on shelves.

you really truly believe that those retailers care about you not being able to satisfy your happines provided by empty material stuff?

they only care that they got paid and moved the products. So those are actually worse than your scapegoats scalpers.

poor delusional materialistic person or even worse, the other 10 or so that bought your wall of tears...

 

[cliffordcooley]

not how the real world works.

Prisons are full of people because of how the real world works. But since that is how the real world works. In your eyes you don't see anything wrong with it. Have you ever stopped to ask if maybe that is not the way the real world should work? Who am I kidding, of course you haven't.

 

[DonquixoteIII]

It isn’t illegal in most places or only for basic essentials of life.

Reselling at the highest market clearing price (particularly using auctions) is an efficient way to maximise profit in the supply chain and allocate stock to those who value it the most (will pay the most). This is similar to a real estate auction, where a house sells to the person with the capacity and willingness pay the highest price.

Most people complaining about this practice believe everyone should queue and get things in that order despite someone else being willing to pay a higher price. That is how school kids are taught to behave, not how the real world works.

So, in your view, nVidia should just auction off their products to the OEMs, who then value add (or not) and in turn auction them off to the distributors, who then auction them off to the retailors who auction them to the end users... Sounds good, until there's a glut and the builders, OEMs and distributors and retailors have to take baths. Admittedly not an issue at present.

The reason that there is a suggested retail price is that such market fluctuation is not particularily good for any link in the distribution chain So, supply shortage, tarrifs, all tend to upset the market. Trump's tarrifs are just now taking effect, with most OEMs marking up their pricing models accordingly world wide even though it really only affects the US. And the distributors in the APAC market seem to be doing their own scalping, marking up products by as much as 700 USD per high end GPUs and all consoles. Adam Smith was wrong, the market is ****ed.

 

[brucek]

So to summarize, it's everyone except the scalper who is in the wrong? Right.... Also, I'm very sorry my face hit your fist.

 

[scavengerspc]

Exactly, I'm using a ryzen 2600 and recently went to cutting edge gamer when my Rx 580 died and am paying for an RTX 2060 super.

Damn man to bad there was no way for me to know this sooner. I have a couple of 2080s around here I'm going to sell (eventually). Probably for a lot less than you paid for the 2060.

 

[Austinturner]

So, in your view, nVidia should just auction off their products to the OEMs, who then value add (or not) and in turn auction them off to the distributors, who then auction them off to the retailors who auction them to the end users... Sounds good, until there's a glut and the builders, OEMs and distributors and retailors have to take baths. Admittedly not an issue at present.

The reason that there is a suggested retail price is that such market fluctuation is not particularily good for any link in the distribution chain So, supply shortage, tarrifs, all tend to upset the market. Trump's tarrifs are just now taking effect, with most OEMs marking up their pricing models accordingly world wide even though it really only affects the US. And the distributors in the APAC market seem to be doing their own scalping, marking up products by as much as 700 USD per high end GPUs and all consoles. Adam Smith was wrong, the market is ****ed.

I’m talking about the market in quite extreme shortage conditions, yeah there is significant risk involved if you are not moving the stock quickly and at some point if anyone other than the end user is holding the products, the holder will take a haircut.

Yeah I’m in australia, I see plenty of retailers marking prices and/or make stock available only with a new system (like pc case gear ryzen “oem” pricing), seems smart to me, it probably is also a good sign stock is starting to increase in those products and they are preparing to make sales.

 

[Austinturner]

Prisons are full of people because of how the real world works. But since that is how the real world works. In your eyes you don't see anything wrong with it. Have you ever stopped to ask if maybe that is not the way the real world should work? Who am I kidding, of course you haven't.

Sorry, I don’t understand your first two sentences, what are you trying to say?

Yeah, I have thought about it, but markets are actually very efficient and none of the alternatives are as good at allocating resources to productive efforts. Look at the people buying gpus for cryptocurrency mining, they took an item that was built for entertainment and turned it into a money making machine...of course they are going to outbid the average consumer!

 

[Rdmetz]

There is ZERO demand for their services. If scalpers ceased to exist not a single person in the entire world would morn their passing. You sound like you're part of the problem, along with anyone who would pay the price a scalper sets.

A "Scalper" doesn't need to exist for this to happen buyers with lots of money will always out pay what someone else is willing to give skdbtjete will always be people willing to let it go today for profit (with intention to still get it later) . You might kill off the typical "bot Scalper" type somehow but you'll just give birth to 1000x more single device "scalpers" willing to tskebthatbtifh lane money.

Supply would NOT be fixed if scalpers went away it would just shift to a different type of roadblock.

It not like scalpers are literally buying 100% of the product it's much more like under 30 as low as 10% the other 70%+ are just like you and will easily expand to make that money scalpers are now (having been eliminated) leaving on the table.

 

[Rdmetz]

What is enabling this is with a limited amount of supply and an outsized demand. Scalping is illegal if the price is manipulated by doing it, as opposed to just reselling something at a higher price to take advantage of what people are offering to buy for something and what retailers are willing to sell something for. If scalping affect the availability of supply in an entire market to force people to buy from them, then yes, it is illegal.

What you are describing are different examples of relling items with a limited supply, but these are not entire markets and there is no outsized demand (given that the console market is an oligopoly and they transition with huge shifts in product offerings). Another example of illegal reselling is when you buy and sell something for an outsized profit because of a crisis (ie. toilet paper at the beginning of the pandemic).

Here's a better translation of scalping done here that's illegal: buying up all the homes being sold in a town and reselling them for way more than they're worth because you have a monopoly on any new offerings. Let me know if this is a false equivalency, but I don't think it is.

Sorry but they are buying at most 30% of the stock they are not fully in control and are not manipulating the market illegally they are in fact just offering the product at a piece some have agreed is viable to them.

You may hate it but it's not a crime.

 

[Rdmetz]

I don't necessarily have an issue with scalping per se. After all I have scalped (resold for more than I paid) concert tickets that I did not need before. The thing is, I got in line and waited for those tickets. I didn't cut in front of everybody and buy every ticket the booth had. It's different for ticket sales kind of, but I think you get my point.

Do I have a problem with a guy going out and buying two hard-to-get items in order to sell one so he can essentially keep one for free? No. Do I have a problem with a guy who goes out, butts in front of me, and buys every last item in the store, and then offers me the privilege buying one from him at twice the price as if he is doing me a favor or providing me a "valuable" service? Yes.

I like your reply best if all and I think speaks to what many who "defend Scalpers" are really trying to explain.

Anyone who gets their hands on a hard to find item and does the work to get it has the right to turn around and lose the ability to own said product but in return be paid for their effort and sacrifice (as in having the must have item).

When I say I'm ok with it it's mostly this type I'm speaking to and if you did the hard work for someone else you deserve to be compensated.
Obviously many would rather do the work themselves than pay someone else to do it for them and that's fine they can go do the same difficult work of obtaining said product and not have to pay extra.

The botters are a different story and I do think work should be done to prevent them but not necessarily "scalpers".

 

[Rdmetz]

BS!
If scalpers did not exist, mommy and daddy would have bought at MSRP, instead the fools they are, with more money than sense they payed x2 or more, so that their failed parenting would not turn into a headache or tragedy with their child throwing a tantrum or worse...

Both scalpers and the fools with more money than sense are the issue, one after another.

No if scalpers didn't exist 30% more of the over strained by 1000x would have gotten one but it wouldn't likely be them (just smarter faster people who couldn't afford the bot) and they'd then have legally no way whatsoever to obtain one.

Scalpers aren't the reason most of you can't get one it's because of all the other people just like you demanding to have it now (but without the financial means / morals to make it happen at a much high price).

 

[Rdmetz]

Is scalping illegal? In most places, no. Is scalping ethical or moral? Ask the scalpers this... If they had to use their real names and addresses to do their 'business' would they still do it? That will tell the tale.

So you're ok with real people doing legal things being threatened / hurt in real life by people who are upset that they profited from a situation somewere hampered by?

There's a reason people hide their identity beyond just being terrible people it's more because actual terrible people will absolutely abuse this information.

 

[Rdmetz]

It isn’t illegal in most places or only for basic essentials of life.

Reselling at the highest market clearing price (particularly using auctions) is an efficient way to maximise profit in the supply chain and allocate stock to those who value it the most (will pay the most). This is similar to a real estate auction, where a house sells to the person with the capacity and willingness pay the highest price.

Most people complaining about this practice believe everyone should queue and get things in that order despite someone else being willing to pay a higher price. That is how school kids are taught to behave, not how the real world works.

Lot of people demanding their "freedom" and lashing out at governments that even speak of "social" anything are somehow complaining about captialism and begging for a more socialist response! Lol

Many of them sound like absolute ignorant hypocrits who don't even realize how much of their world already relies on "social programs" already built in to their world.

 

[cliffordcooley]

There's a reason people hide their identity beyond just being terrible people it's more because actual terrible people will absolutely abuse this information.

Government not excluded.

 

[jpuroila]

You can't teach common courtesy but you can teach common sense.
Stop supporting scalpers and the problem will go away.

You might think that, but people still fall for phishing attacks and scams, people still reply to even the most blatant of trolls, etc.

 

[candle_86]

There is a reason scalping is not allowed with certain products. That very reason holds true for all products. So why are we even debating the merits of scalping? It should be illegal across the board, preventing markup above MSRP. In my opinion; if the price stays below MSRP, it's not really scalping.

Scalpingnecessities like milk and bread is not comparable to luxury items. in order to restrict scalping on items they first have to be essential you find a way to prove to me that an RTX 390 or PS5 is essential

 

[candle_86]

It isn’t illegal in most places or only for basic essentials of life.

Reselling at the highest market clearing price (particularly using auctions) is an efficient way to maximise profit in the supply chain and allocate stock to those who value it the most (will pay the most). This is similar to a real estate auction, where a house sells to the person with the capacity and willingness pay the highest price.

Most people complaining about this practice believe everyone should queue and get things in that order despite someone else being willing to pay a higher price. That is how school kids are taught to behave, not how the real world works.

Exactly, when I flip computers, which I buy low, referbish and then resell I don't care if the first guy offers me 300 if the 2nd guy comes along and says here's 400, it's going to the second guy

 

[Austinturner]

Exactly, when I flip computers, which I buy low, referbish and then resell I don't care if the first guy offers me 300 if the 2nd guy comes along and says here's 400, it's going to the second guy

This is going to be a great movie:

The Wolf of Main Street

His appetite was whet by selling his refurbed computers to people who offered more cold, hard cash. Before long he was hooked, he was on the phone doing deals, buying things low, selling them high. No one could hold him back, GPUs, CPUs, consoles, he’d buy them, then sell them for a profit, he had become...the wolf of main street!

Soon he was living the high life, walks in to the dealership and pays cash, candy red metallic with alloys, it was the sweetest camry on the block. And the parties, oh the parties, he’d buy a case of beer and a bottle of whiskey and just share it with his mates like it was nothin, he had a girlfriend and got laid anytime she wanted, one day he even smoked a joint, he had it made.

Meanwhile all the poor bastards he shafted were getting mad, first offers on ebay rejected, warranty claims on 2nd products refused, waiting to pay MSRP on a hot new product leading to nothing but failure and when the things they bought dropped in price a month later and they ask for their money back he tells them to pound sand. They went to the cops, the tax office, the SEC, begged a lawyer for pro bono work but no one would listen.

Eventually they all got together in the comment section of a tech blog and complained, and that started tge revolution, they stopped buying from him, invested the $2,000 instead and he was screwed, his market was gone...and he had to get s job!

 

[Kosmoz]

No if scalpers didn't exist 30% more of the over strained by 1000x would have gotten one but it wouldn't likely be them (just smarter faster people who couldn't afford the bot) and they'd then have legally no way whatsoever to obtain one.

Scalpers aren't the reason most of you can't get one it's because of all the other people just like you demanding to have it now (but without the financial means / morals to make it happen at a much high price).

I'm replying to this and your other replies too:
So just because other people will still buy 1 or 2 and and scalp (but also others will buy to use it, you know, more actual users of the product not scalpers) you say it's the same as it is now? Pffft... nice logic scalper (apologist)! Go take a hike with you BS!

Even if you think it to be as bad (by your twisted reasoning, but it not, it's actually better) choosing between two wrongs when that is the only choice and one is more wrong than the other, it's not even debatable (specially in this case) that the lesser wrong option is the right choice. It's called an improvement.

 

[Avro Arrow]

'All we are acting as is a middleman for limited quantity items'
No, you're inserting yourselves as an "extra middleman" that wasn't previously there. The only people who think that the scalper industry is valuable are the scalpers themselves.

Having said that, there are enough people who are stupid enough to buy from them so they are the ones enabling this despicable behaviour.

 

[Avro Arrow]

No if scalpers didn't exist 30% more of the over strained by 1000x would have gotten one but it wouldn't likely be them (just smarter faster people who couldn't afford the bot) and they'd then have legally no way whatsoever to obtain one.

Scalpers aren't the reason most of you can't get one it's because of all the other people just like you demanding to have it now (but without the financial means / morals to make it happen at a much high price).

I get the strong impression that you're scalping too. Do you honestly expect to turn public opinion to not hate scalpers? I don't know what drugs you're on but I can say that it must be some good $hit!

 

[punctualturn]

So to summarize, it's everyone except the scalper who is in the wrong? Right.... Also, I'm very sorry my face hit your fist.

You are dead set in only blaming scalpers and conveniently ignoring the other points explained.

dont worry, one day you will fill that void with some more luxury things that the scalpers are keeping away from you.

 

[QuantumPhysics]

Scalping doesn't need to be made illegal.

Let the free market work.

If the consumers refuse to buy from anyone but the factory-direct, they absolutely will be forced to sell them direct to the consumer.

 

[candle_86]

This is going to be a great movie:

The Wolf of Main Street

His appetite was whet by selling his refurbed computers to people who offered more cold, hard cash. Before long he was hooked, he was on the phone doing deals, buying things low, selling them high. No one could hold him back, GPUs, CPUs, consoles, he’d buy them, then sell them for a profit, he had become...the wolf of main street!

Soon he was living the high life, walks in to the dealership and pays cash, candy red metallic with alloys, it was the sweetest camry on the block. And the parties, oh the parties, he’d buy a case of beer and a bottle of whiskey and just share it with his mates like it was nothin, he had a girlfriend and got laid anytime she wanted, one day he even smoked a joint, he had it made.

Meanwhile all the poor bastards he shafted were getting mad, first offers on ebay rejected, warranty claims on 2nd products refused, waiting to pay MSRP on a hot new product leading to nothing but failure and when the things they bought dropped in price a month later and they ask for their money back he tells them to pound sand. They went to the cops, the tax office, the SEC, begged a lawyer for pro bono work but no one would listen.

Eventually they all got together in the comment section of a tech blog and complained, and that started tge revolution, they stopped buying from him, invested the $2,000 instead and he was screwed, his market was gone...and he had to get s job!

Nah I work a day job but plenty of times I'll see good deals or see i5/i7 dells on the curb, pick them up, add an ssd, psu, and video card and flip it. It's called a side hustle

 

[brucek]

Nah I work a day job but plenty of times I'll see good deals or see i5/i7 dells on the curb, pick them up, add an ssd, psu, and video card and flip it. It's called a side hustle

To me that's nothing like scalping. When you invest your knowledge and labor to convert broken down components that are useless to most, into a ready to use computer that is ready for market, you are providing a useful function. (Same for a contractor who converts a fixer-upper impractical for most into a ready-to-move-in home.)

Note at least three key differences vs. a scalper: you were not violating retailer site terms of service agreements or providing fraudulent identity details; you were not preventing other buyers who were willing to pay the same price at the same time you were; and you were improving the good you were re-selling.