Steve Wozniak warns Apple over removing the 3.5mm headphone jack for the iPhone 7

[Squid Surprise]

Do you have a problem with people stating things as facts or do facts just bother you? I didn't just state facts, I explained why they facts and I used those facts to justify my opinion.

You didn't provide EVIDENCE for your "facts".... that makes them OPINIONS....

 

[yRaz]

You didn't provide EVIDENCE for your "facts".... that makes them OPINIONS....

I had just typed a very long explanation itemizing everything but as I was writing it I realized that I'm arguing with someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. I explained things very nicely in what I wrote before. it's an excellent starting point if you want to learn more about engineering, manufacturing and sound quality on your own.

 

[Darth Shiv]

3.5mm is unequivocally more reliable than wireless. The only thing worth considering is if the wireless does good enough for you to not want to go back to 3.5mm.

Quality is all down to DACs as BT and lightning both support lossless audio. How big/good are the DACs going to be in a mobile phone? How much space do you get in your headphones? I think most headphones apart from earbuds, you are going to have more room for better DACs so having lossless digital is going to be superior isn't it?

 

[yRaz]

3.5mm is unequivocally more reliable than wireless. The only thing worth considering is if the wireless does good enough for you to not want to go back to 3.5mm.

Quality is all down to DACs as BT and lightning both support lossless audio. How big/good are the DACs going to be in a mobile phone? How much space do you get in your headphones? I think most headphones apart from earbuds, you are going to have more room for better DACs so having lossless digital is going to be superior isn't it?

It will be possible to make par-for-par wireless and currently is possible for USB. The problem plaguing wireless and USB headphones is actually very similar. Adding more parts means that cost-for-cost, the 3.5mm will always sound better. The par-for-par comparison and the USB/wireless headphones will always be more expensive

 

[Squid Surprise]

I had just typed a very long explanation itemizing everything but as I was writing it I realized that I'm arguing with someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. I explained things very nicely in what I wrote before. it's an excellent starting point if you want to learn more about engineering, manufacturing and sound quality on your own.

But you didn't BACK THEM UP... you just SAID them....

That doesn't make something a fact...

 

[yRaz]

But you didn't BACK THEM UP... you just SAID them....

That doesn't make something a fact...

Okay, well if that's true then you can deconstruct my argument by posting sources and a counter argument. If you believe they aren't facts, prove it. If I'm wrong that should be easy, but I don't think you're going to do that. I don't think you have the knowledge to do that and that you're too lazy to do it even if you did.

 

[Squid Surprise]

Okay, well if that's true then you can deconstruct my argument by posting sources and a counter argument. If you believe they aren't facts, prove it. If I'm wrong that should be easy, but I don't think you're going to do that. I don't think you have the knowledge to do that and that you're too lazy to do it even if you did.

You missed the point....Apple is removing the 3.5mm adapter... because it isn't needed...

if YOU disagree with this, it's up to YOU to prove why...

 

[yRaz]

You missed the point....Apple is removing the 3.5mm adapter... because it isn't needed...

if YOU disagree with this, it's up to YOU to prove why...

I already "proved" why it is needed in a previous post, but I'll sum up those points for you

• wireless tech and lightning connectors are more expensive than 3.5mm
• cost-to-cost 3.5mm will sound better than headphones on lightning or wireless connectors
• par-to-par, lighting and wireless headsets will cost significantly more than a 3.5mm
• lighting connectors will only interface with Apple tech
• Bluetooth sound quality is limited by bandwidth
• The iPhone wont work with AUX jacks which are the standard in cars
• You have the option of using bluetooth(if your headunit has it), but you are limited in quality
• the vast majority of highend audio equipment is analog, not digital.
• "digital lossless" is a marketing term. Lossless digital audio has been around for years. Not as good as a record, but damned close.

If you think any of these aren't fact, prove me wrong. Either you can't or you wont, probably both.

 

[Squid Surprise]

I already "proved" why it is needed in a previous post, but I'll sum up those points for you

• 1)wireless tech and lightning connectors are more expensive than 3.5mm
• 2)cost-to-cost 3.5mm will sound better than headphones on lightning or wireless connectors
• 3)par-to-par, lighting and wireless headsets will cost significantly more than a 3.5mm
• 4)lighting connectors will only interface with Apple tech
• 5)Bluetooth sound quality is limited by bandwidth
• 6)The iPhone wont work with AUX jacks which are the standard in cars
• 7)You have the option of using bluetooth(if your headunit has it), but you are limited in quality
• 8)the vast majority of highend audio equipment is analog, not digital.
• 9)"digital lossless" is a marketing term. Lossless digital audio has been around for years. Not as good as a record, but damned close.

If you think any of these aren't fact, prove me wrong. Either you can't or you wont, probably both.

You didn't prove them.. you just stated them....
But here you go...

1) they are now... but they won't be once 3.5 is discontinued - which it will be as more and more tech companies go USB, wireless, lightning, etc... cassettes used to be cheaper than CDs/DVDs... try getting one now....

2) I refer to #1 - and again... PROVE IT!!

3) Once again... refer to #1... and where is your evidence?!?!?

4) that is true.... but this is for the iPhone... so DUH!!!

5) The new standard (ver 5 I believe) is coming out in 2017 with far more bandwidth... not a concern unless you are a real audiophile (and then, why are u listening to an iPhone?!?!?)...

6) USB is far more standard in cars nowadays - as is bluetooth... if u MUST use AUX, the iPhone comes with an adapter (this goes for your old 3.5mm headphones/earbuds as well) - and again, I refer to #1 - AUX won't be standard in cars for very long...

7) Really? There are some pretty damn good (and expensive) wireless heaphones... check 'em out

8) Yes... but you're using an iPhone.... so you're starting with digital anyways....

9) So... then u CAN use digital... lightning is therefore good....

Happy?

 

[yRaz]

Happy?

Not at all, I'm disappointed I wasted my time arguing with you

 

[Nobina]

Some people actually think that Apple will add more battery and storage now when 3.5mm is gone. They're doing it to make the phone thinner. If you do however get more battery and storage it aint gonna be free.

 

[Puiu]

I don't care about if USB is better or not. what I care about is that I won't be able to do anything with the USB if I plug headphones.
the 3.5mm connector is also extremely sturdy for people that are active (sports/jogging/etc). it can even hold your phone without any problems if it falls out of your pocket and you have headphones on.

 

[Nobina]

Do you have a problem with people stating things as facts or do facts just bother you? I didn't just state facts, I explained why they facts and I used those facts to justify my opinion.

You didn't provide EVIDENCE for your "facts".... that makes them OPINIONS....

You can't even type without adding three dots at the end. You ignore facts and pick random sources that arent credible just because they have the same opinion as you. Nobody here has to provide you, a random ***** on the internet, any evidence. Not that you would understand any evidence cause you tend to disagree with facts that don't suit you.

 

[Squid Surprise]

You can't even type without adding three dots at the end. You ignore facts and pick random sources that arent credible just because they have the same opinion as you. Nobody here has to provide you, a random ***** on the internet, any evidence. Not that you would understand any evidence cause you tend to disagree with facts that don't suit you.

I use the ... as spacers....
I don't ignore facts - when you are debating, it's simply a matter of PROVING things you argue...

The FACT is that Apple is removing the 3.5mm from the iPhone - anyone who thinks its a bad idea is therefore obligated to prove why... I agree with Apple - so what do I need to prove?

I gave my reasons as to why I agree with them - and provided links to various other people who also agree... As this will take place in the future, concrete proof as to the superiority of the Lightning adapter's sound obviously doesn't exist.

But to state AS FACT that this is a terrible idea is simply irresponsible... We won't know that it's a terrible idea until after it is done!!!

And if the past is any indication (Apple omitting cd/DVD from their laptops, etc), it will probably be quite successful. Remember, this is probably the most successful company in human history - maybe they are doing something right?

 

[yRaz]

I use the ... as spacers....
I don't ignore facts - when you are debating, it's simply a matter of PROVING things you argue...

The FACT is that Apple is removing the 3.5mm from the iPhone - anyone who thinks its a bad idea is therefore obligated to prove why... I agree with Apple - so what do I need to prove?

I gave my reasons as to why I agree with them - and provided links to various other people who also agree... As this will take place in the future, concrete proof as to the superiority of the Lightning adapter's sound obviously doesn't exist.

But to state AS FACT that this is a terrible idea is simply irresponsible... We won't know that it's a terrible idea until after it is done!!!

And if the past is any indication (Apple omitting cd/DVD from their laptops, etc), it will probably be quite successful. Remember, this is probably the most successful company in human history - maybe they are doing something right?

What you don't seem to understand is that most people here are educated and that we already learned this stuff years ago. We are all looking at you as someone who doesn't no basic facts about technology. Instead of already knowing this or trying to learn it, you say that we are all wrong because you don't know something. I tried really hard to explain to you what this tech does, how it works and why it works that way. Instead, you're more worried about trying to save face by saying you need a source before it is fact. The problem is that if you don't understand basic fundamentals about technology and are unwilling to learn, there is nothing I can do to help you. You want to say that we are wrong, I already put a lot of effort into talking with you. It is quite rude of you to not put the same amount of effort into your posts that I put into mine and still say that I'm wrong just because I didn't post sources. I don't need to post a source for you and I wont waste any more effort arguing with you. The burden of proof is now on you. Put some effort into your posts. I know that I'm right because I have an education and spent years studying this stuff. I have also been building computers and making electronics as early as 7 years old. That means I have over 20 years experience with this stuff.

prove me wrong by posting your own sources and counter arguments, otherwise the conversation is over

 

[Puiu]

I use the ... as spacers....
I don't ignore facts - when you are debating, it's simply a matter of PROVING things you argue...

The FACT is that Apple is removing the 3.5mm from the iPhone - anyone who thinks its a bad idea is therefore obligated to prove why... I agree with Apple - so what do I need to prove?

I gave my reasons as to why I agree with them - and provided links to various other people who also agree... As this will take place in the future, concrete proof as to the superiority of the Lightning adapter's sound obviously doesn't exist.

But to state AS FACT that this is a terrible idea is simply irresponsible... We won't know that it's a terrible idea until after it is done!!!

And if the past is any indication (Apple omitting cd/DVD from their laptops, etc), it will probably be quite successful. Remember, this is probably the most successful company in human history - maybe they are doing something right?

here's why:
1. can you charge your phone and have your wired headphones on?
2. can you plug it in your PC and still use your headphones?
3. usb-c connectors will break extremely easily compared to the standard 3.5mm audio jack and it is easily unplugged.
- everytime I dropped my phone with the USB cable in it, the USB cable didn't hold the phone and the phone fell after it unplugged.
- everytime I dropped my phone while listening to music the 3.5mm connector help the phone even while I was on my bike
4. it will take half a decade before you'll have the same variety and quality of headphones (because you can't add USB on all of the audio devices and most phones will stick to the regular 3.5mm, the adoption rate will be much slower than you think)

It's the same as saying that you don't need VGA on your monitor, but instead of adding another video connector to replace it, you are removing all of the video and power ports and replacing them with 1 port that can't plug your monitor in a power outlet and in your PC at the same time. That's just dumb.

 

[Darth Shiv]

It will be possible to make par-for-par wireless and currently is possible for USB. The problem plaguing wireless and USB headphones is actually very similar. Adding more parts means that cost-for-cost, the 3.5mm will always sound better. The par-for-par comparison and the USB/wireless headphones will always be more expensive

The headphones will be more expensive but phones at smaller volume should be less expensive and now won't need a high quality DAC on the 3.5mm port. Just shifting the cost.

And really, having the DAC in your phone prevents you being able to do anything about audio quality if your phone has a bad DAC. With lightning, manufacturers can put quality appropriate DACs into the headphones. Poor headphones? Use cheaper DAC and save money. Good ones? Well they have to use a better DAC otherwise their product is as bad as the cheapest part in the chain.

 

[Squid Surprise]

here's why:
1. can you charge your phone and have your wired headphones on?
2. can you plug it in your PC and still use your headphones?
3. usb-c connectors will break extremely easily compared to the standard 3.5mm audio jack and it is easily unplugged.
- everytime I dropped my phone with the USB cable in it, the USB cable didn't hold the phone and the phone fell after it unplugged.
- everytime I dropped my phone while listening to music the 3.5mm connector help the phone even while I was on my bike
4. it will take half a decade before you'll have the same variety and quality of headphones (because you can't add USB on all of the audio devices and most phones will stick to the regular 3.5mm, the adoption rate will be much slower than you think)

It's the same as saying that you don't need VGA on your monitor, but instead of adding another video connector to replace it, you are removing all of the video and power ports and replacing them with 1 port that can't plug your monitor in a power outlet and in your PC at the same time. That's just dumb.

1) Yes you can - they will almost certainly have pass-through adapters that allow both (they even had that on the old iPods that allowed charging and synching before you could charge via the USB port - heck, even old Palm Pilots had that!)

2) Yes, you can - see #1

3) stop dropping your phone... the connector is the least of your issues if you're doing that... your screen will crack....

4) I'd say maybe a year... or less... when apple releases something, accessories come out pretty darn fast... companies know that millions of people will be buying iPhones, and will market accordingly...

 

[EEatGDL]

Apple was warned when they got rid of the CD ROM DRIVE on their products.
Guess what: they were right.
Digital Downloads have taken off and it's all about Hard Disk capacity, quickly becoming Flash Storage capactiy as SSD gets cheaper.

So when Intel says USB-C is the way you're in the 3.5mm jack side; but when Apple pushes a similar idea with Lightning, you're on Intel-Apple's side. Make up your mind dude. And stop shoving in our faces you make a ****-ton of money ["I make $2,000 a month on YouTube...", "my new Jeep SRT"] and everyone should follow your way of thinking regarding technology and economics.

 

[Squid Surprise]

What you don't seem to understand is that most people here are educated and that we already learned this stuff years ago. We are all looking at you as someone who doesn't no basic facts about technology. Instead of already knowing this or trying to learn it, you say that we are all wrong because you don't know something. I tried really hard to explain to you what this tech does, how it works and why it works that way. Instead, you're more worried about trying to save face by saying you need a source before it is fact. The problem is that if you don't understand basic fundamentals about technology and are unwilling to learn, there is nothing I can do to help you. You want to say that we are wrong, I already put a lot of effort into talking with you. It is quite rude of you to not put the same amount of effort into your posts that I put into mine and still say that I'm wrong just because I didn't post sources. I don't need to post a source for you and I wont waste any more effort arguing with you. The burden of proof is now on you. Put some effort into your posts. I know that I'm right because I have an education and spent years studying this stuff. I have also been building computers and making electronics as early as 7 years old. That means I have over 20 years experience with this stuff.

prove me wrong by posting your own sources and counter arguments, otherwise the conversation is over

You gave me 9 "facts"... I refuted each one... not sure what else you want from me....

And as for not understanding basic technology - so because you have experience, you don't need to prove what you say? I would think it's BECAUSE you have experience you'd find it easy to prove what you say!!

And before I became a teacher, I owned my own IT company for years - so don't bother insulting me about lack of technical expertise...

The thing is, this site posts articles about companies that introduce some new tech, option, etc... Despite most of these companies being multi-million (or billion) dollar corporations, employing some of the smartest minds on the planet, people like you assume that you know better than them, and state your OPINIONS as facts on these forums.

I don't think it's too much to ask that you prove yourself if you are going to disagree with Apple....

 

[yRaz]

You gave me 9 "facts"... I refuted each one... not sure what else you want from me....

And as for not understanding basic technology - so because you have experience, you don't need to prove what you say? I would think it's BECAUSE you have experience you'd find it easy to prove what you say!!

And before I became a teacher, I owned my own IT company for years - so don't bother insulting me about lack of technical expertise...

The thing is, this site posts articles about companies that introduce some new tech, option, etc... Despite most of these companies being multi-million (or billion) dollar corporations, employing some of the smartest minds on the planet, people like you assume that you know better than them, and state your OPINIONS as facts on these forums.

I don't think it's too much to ask that you prove yourself if you are going to disagree with Apple....

You didn't refute a damn thing and I am not here to educate you

 

[Rippleman]

It is so easy of a soultion. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

Everyday, I consistently "don't buy" things I don't like. It really is easy with practice, heck, it has got so easy to do now, I don't even think about it.

I believe EVERYONE should have the ability to "not buy" what they don't like.

#don'tbuywhatyoudon'tlike

 

[mbrowne5061]

Apple: "Theres an adapter for that"

And of course Intel supports USB-C becoming the new headphone standard - they helped design the thing. Again, lets ask the audio engineers what they think - because I bet it is a resounding 'no'

 

[Kibaruk]

BT Audio is the way to go, wireless is the future, duck the connectors and plugs!

Wow... just wow. I'm also alarmed to see one on the wild, they look kind of dangerous.

I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH IT COSTS.

Do your channel a favour and stop posting... please.

EDIT: Out of curiosity I got into your channel, learn to hold a camera... please, oh right that's a phone not a camera...

 

[Puiu]

1) Yes you can - they will almost certainly have pass-through adapters that allow both (they even had that on the old iPods that allowed charging and synching before you could charge via the USB port - heck, even old Palm Pilots had that!)

2) Yes, you can - see #1

3) stop dropping your phone... the connector is the least of your issues if you're doing that... your screen will crack....

4) I'd say maybe a year... or less... when apple releases something, accessories come out pretty darn fast... companies know that millions of people will be buying iPhones, and will market accordingly...

you are talking about those adapters that almost nobody used? you do realise that nobody wants to carry something like that with them, right?
1. why use an adaptor?
2. why use a shitty adaptor that will make your phone longer and thicker when that's the reason why they are removing the 3.5mm.
2.5. and we're back to just how fragile these things are, especially for people who listen to music while jogging, cycling or doing any other activity.
3. nobody will ever believe that you never droped your phone.
4. yes, you will get hundreds of shitty and expensive headphones. it will be the same as buying Beats By Dre and saying that you have good headphones. you'll have a few "acceptable" headphones that cost over 300$ and that's about it.

in the end you just dug your own grave with faulty logic.