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The NSA infiltrated two major German networks to map the country's internet traffic

By Justin Kahn
Sep 15, 2014
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  1. After German officials proposed to lock down its internet due to security breaches, it looks as though newly discovered NSA activity could get the agency into trouble once again. Evidence has surfaced saying the NSA network infiltration in Germany reaches...

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  2. davislane1

    davislane1 TS Evangelist Posts: 3,551   +2,354

    At this point, NSA spy games are old news. Every major power spies on the rest of the players. These revelations merely allow the appropriate parties to parry that activity into political capital. I'm more concerned with what's going on with our former border and other domestic issues.
     
  3. I'm unsure what distinctions are being used when one speaks of a "former border" or of "domestic issues". It is sickeningly & pathetically evident, however, that the NSA still retains a profile of truly abhorrent hubris & disdain with respect to ANY border constructed in service of ANY individual or group human rights, human dignities or legally guaranteed human protections against violations of law.

    Every single act undertaken by the NSA, in point of fact, has demonstrated & displayed their total disregard & dismissal of any legal requirement or even any mere notion that they conduct themselves within a framework of law, let alone self imposed "rules of ethical conduct". The NSA considers itself to be well above the constraints of any functional legal authority & well beyond the institutional reach of any such authority that might resolve to reign in the NSA's gross excesses.

    Cause, ya' know ... Terrorists!

    I'm not suggesting that there are not very problematic matters concerning international borders or matters of serious concern on a variety of domestic fronts. What I am saying is that the NSA is going about the business of establishing the baselines & benchmarks that will serve as the measure for how insidiously, how perniciously & how limitless will be the conduct of any future terrorism.

    What is a terrorist if it is not someone or some entity, that denies the legitimacy, if not even the very existence, of any authority beyond that of it's own self-justified, self-defined, self-serving interests?
     
    SayNo2Glops and cliffordcooley like this.
  4. "What is a terrorist if it is not someone or some entity, that denies the legitimacy, if not even the very existence, of any authority beyond that of it's own self-justified, self-defined, self-serving interests?"

    Hear Hear!
     
    SayNo2Glops likes this.
  5. MilwaukeeMike

    MilwaukeeMike TS Evangelist Posts: 2,750   +1,105

    So every stoned hippie complaining that 'the man' is keeping him down is a terrorist now? There's more to terrorism than just dismissing every form of authority and living to serve only yourself. It's why no one confuses ISIS with toddlers.

    Maybe the differences got lost in your big words, or maybe it's just easier to put everything in the same box of logic than to try to understand, explain and differentiate. Either way, perhaps you should pick a different week for your soapbox than the week the most liberal and anti-war president in a generation has just finally admitted we're at war.
     
    davislane1 likes this.
  6. Darkshadoe

    Darkshadoe TS Guru Posts: 571   +112

    Would this be the war on terrorism or the war on the American People's civil liberties that you are referring to?
     
  7. davislane1

    davislane1 TS Evangelist Posts: 3,551   +2,354

    The NSA et al. have been running comprehensive spy operations since their inception, both at home and directed at allies. As the tech has improved, so too have their capabilities. It's neither new nor surprising that they would be keeping tabs on everyone.

    What your genius intellect seems to miss is that the NSA "scandal" is a pawn. While other wise men not unlike yourself sink their teeth into all of the NSA's juicy little sins, a small army of rooks is chipping away at your precious rights and "ethics" and "laws" almost entirely uncontested. Since Snowden went rogue, we've had revelation after revelation after revelation about all the bad little things the NSA has been doing. Yet, I can't seem to recall one major outlet running a series of stories on the people who actually run and control the NSA. You know, the people who appoint the judges that authorize the activities, the officials who appoint the department heads, the members of the various committees responsible for monitoring everyone involved. It's all just a little bit... well, curious.

    But you keep spreading the word about the NSA's nefarious activities and sinister intent. After all, somebody's gotta watch Sesame Street.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
  8. "The NSA et al. have been running comprehensive spy operations since their inception, both at home and directed at allies. As the tech has improved, so too have their capabilities. It's neither new nor surprising that they would be keeping tabs on everyone."

    While it may be true that "It"s neither new nor surprising that they would be keeping tabs on everyone." it is none-the-less an exceptionally solid foundation upon which a thoroughly justified sense of outrage, indignity & revulsion may be based. When an agency such as the NSA's is shown to conduct every act of it's U.S. domestic surveillance programs in direct violation of Constitutional constraints & scores of Federal laws (forget states & localities) it strikes me that it may be cause for reasonable concern.

    What your genius intellect seems to miss is that the NSA "scandal" is a pawn. While gullible wise men not unlike yourself sink their teeth into all of the NSA's juicy little sins, a small army of rooks is chipping away at your precious rights and "ethics" and "laws" almost entirely uncontested.

    Don't you mean OUR rights, "ethics" & "laws" (unless you happen to not be a U.S. citizen, which as a practical matter should not be worth a whit)? And yes, these precepts are in point of fact, most precious, if one's status as an autonomous human holds any meaning what-so-ever.

    "Since Snowden went rogue, we've had revelation after revelation after revelation about all the bad little things the NSA has been doing. Yet, I can't seem to recall one major outlet running a series of stories on the people who actually run and control the NSA."

    I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to make here, other than observing that indeed, no one is being held to account for anything they've done; though notably, they're all exceedingly anxious to "blame the messenger" & label Snowden as villainous in what can only be regarded as a pathetic effort to shift attention away from their own high crimes. While there have been any number of upper echelon NSA officials profiled within the media, their conduct as related to their administration of the agency that they helm can hardly be considered singularly discrete & separate from the agency itself. These are appointees who direct an organization to conduct matters routinely & knowingly in direct violation of multiple scores of laws. For the sake of an overly simplistic illustration, were the "NSA" parenthetically re-badged as the "Cosa Nostra", these appointed leaders would rank as Capos; criminals leading a criminal organization in it's willful commission of countless crimes against society.

    "You know, the people who appoint the judges that authorize the activities, the officials who appoint the department heads, the members of the various committees responsible for monitoring everyone involved. It's all just a little bit... well, curious."


    Oh there is plenty of responsibility to spread about, & the entirely of the supporting cast should certainly be held to account as well.

    "But you keep spreading the word about the NSA's nefarious activities and sinister intent. After all, somebody's gotta watch Sesame Street."

    I have no intention of remaining silent as the foundations of U.S. democratic society are being assaulted & eroded moment by moment. Consequently, I'm afraid that won't leave time to join you in any T.V. viewing.
     
    SayNo2Glops likes this.
  9. SayNo2Glops

    SayNo2Glops TS Rookie

    So yeah, ho hum, just roll over and let them b.f. you whenever, wherever and however they want. And google+ is their best friend.

    E-surveillance? Border security? How about BOTH in REASONABLE amounts? We can finance acres of mass storage in Utah, yet can't hire enough agents (etc) to keep a 4-state border secure.

    I wholeheartedly agree on both of those points.

    1. NSA et al were born out of a highly visible and widely destructive World War. The paradigm was quite a bit different back then than it is now; not necessarily in the mission, but clearly in its execution. AND the execution doesn't always work nearly as well as it should when we most need it. See "3" below.

    2. "everyone"? Seriously? And did you forget to mention the people who vote for the people who appoint... ? We may be on exactly the same plain in that specific regard, but I really can't tell.

    3. Tech has improved but the people who demand it and supposedly use it are *****s. 9/11 (clues dating all the way back to 1995 and even before (I.e., WTC 1 in 2/93)), Saddam, the Boston Marathon bombers, I could go all day. They're relying WAY TOO MUCH on "Tech" and not nearly enough on good old-fashioned human intel and plain common sense. Tech is Dumbing Them Down, just like it's doing all the rest of us.
     
    amstech likes this.
  10. amstech

    amstech TechSpot Enthusiast Posts: 1,456   +606

    This is true.
    Your average person lacks the same abilities, moral compass and common sense they require compared to the previous generation. I make overboard comments on this site all the time just to illuminate a certain point or idea.
    This country is so soft now and poor at dealing with reality/issues, it has done monumental damage to our country and society.
     

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