Unsupported Windows 11 devices could soon get a desktop watermark

[Nintenboy01]

I googled that laptop out of curiosity.

it came out in 2012, let it go dude, you can probably find a cheapo that'll run circles around it now.

Maybe so, but Ivy Bridge still performs great for general use even today. Plus it's the version with a 1600x900 screen, and I upgraded the RAM to 16GB and the HDD to a Sandisk Ultra II SSD 6 years ago.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

I googled that laptop out of curiosity.

it came out in 2012, let it go dude, you can probably find a cheapo that'll run circles around it now.

Why? If the hardware still works for him why replace it? Core 2 duos can still browse the internet without issue.

A 7700K does not have a TPM 2.0 chip as a standard on that platform. Thats what a dual core alder lake has that the 7700K doesnt.

Incorrect. fTPM has been around since haswell, and skylake 6000 series was the first to have TPM 2.0

I believe you can add one provided your motherboard has the connection.

See above

MS are keeping it simple and stating the 7700K is not supported because they know that not all users are as technically capable of you or myself, installing a TPM 2.0 chip isnt as straightforward as clicking on "upgrade to windows 11".

Why can users enable fTPM on coffee lake motherboards but not skylake motherboards?

Besides, the CPU you have mentioned, the dual core Alder lake Celeron is not on the list of supported CPUs for Windows 11.

Windows processor requirements Windows 11 supported Intel processors

This specification details the Intel processors that can be used with Windows 11 customer systems that include Windows products, including custom images.

docs.microsoft.com

The article you posted was last updated before alder lake celerons were released. You also missed the 10th gen celerons listed on there.

Nice self goal there bud.

Also can you give me any reason whatsoever to throw out a working 7700K machine or any machine not on the Windows 11 supported list?

Not being able to download security updates
Not being able to run updated web browsers

Not being able to upgrade to windows 11 is not a reason to throw any hardware out.

Once 10 is no longer supported you will not be able to run a secure windows OS. That is a pretty big deal breaker for a lot of people.

There is no e-waste here. At least, not for the next 3 years and 7 months at a minimum and only for unsupported CPUs, the vast majority are over 4 years old today.

This policy will create e-waste. Saying "well well well it hasnt happened yet" isnt an excuse.

Maybe so, but Ivy Bridge still performs great for general use even today. Plus it's the version with a 1600x900 screen, and I upgraded the RAM to 16GB and the HDD to a Sandisk Ultra II SSD 6 years ago.

But clearly you cant browse facebook on ivy bridge! You need an alderlake chip pulling 150 watts to view cat videos!!!!!

What a lot of these guys also forget is the whole world is not the USA. The vast majority of the market outside of the USA and western europe is running pre 8th gen intel or pre 2000 series ryzen. Core 2 duos are still very common and for business use where you dont need a ton of processing power and your local salary is the equivelant of $400 a month you dont need a new alder lake system.

These people honestly believe that everyone is going to be fine dumping $1000 on new computers just to use a windows 10 service pack.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

The minimum requirements have something to do with how they want to virtualize core components of the operating system specifically the kernel and various drivers so as to protect them from being tampered with by malware. This technique is called Hypervisor-Enforced Code Integrity (HVCI) or Memory Integrity.

https://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-virtualization-based-security-windows/

Obviously, this is a good thing but apparently older processors take a massive hit in performance when this core functionality of Windows 11 is enabled due to a lack of a specific instruction set called MBEC. See the following article for details about that.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...hardware-requirements-according-to-microsoft/

The virtualization you talk of here can, and has demonstrably been shown, run on older hardware with a maybe 1-2% performance penalty. Plenty of ld unsupported CPUs can run 11 without issue, MS is using this as an excuse to sell more windows licenses.

 

[p51d007]

MS, what a disgusting company. Now they will pester users with the watermark thing. What is the point of that? If someone installed a fixed version of Windows 11, he knew what he was doing. No need of a constant warning. But no, MS just cannot resist and is following its crooked nature. A company with bad vibes.

The "only" reason I think MS did this, outside the idea of selling more partnet hardware, would be to keep some shady computer sellers from installing a copy of 11, on a not supported hardware platform, charging more, and then weeks/months later the person that bought it, runs into trouble.

 

[trparky]

The virtualization you talk of here can, and has demonstrably been shown, run on older hardware with a maybe 1-2% performance penalty. Plenty of ld unsupported CPUs can run 11 without issue, MS is using this as an excuse to sell more windows licenses.

According to ArsTechnica the performance hit can be as much as 40%.

 

[theruck]

Sure it won't be long before hackers remove it.

whhat hackers? it will be one registry key as usually

 

[Shadowboxer]

Why? If the hardware still works for him why replace it? Core 2 duos can still browse the internet without issue.

Incorrect. fTPM has been around since haswell, and skylake 6000 series was the first to have TPM 2.0

See above

Why can users enable fTPM on coffee lake motherboards but not skylake motherboards?

The article you posted was last updated before alder lake celerons were released. You also missed the 10th gen celerons listed on there.

Nice self goal there bud.

Not being able to download security updates
Not being able to run updated web browsers

Once 10 is no longer supported you will not be able to run a secure windows OS. That is a pretty big deal breaker for a lot of people.

This policy will create e-waste. Saying "well well well it hasnt happened yet" isnt an excuse.

But clearly you cant browse facebook on ivy bridge! You need an alderlake chip pulling 150 watts to view cat videos!!!!!

What a lot of these guys also forget is the whole world is not the USA. The vast majority of the market outside of the USA and western europe is running pre 8th gen intel or pre 2000 series ryzen. Core 2 duos are still very common and for business use where you dont need a ton of processing power and your local salary is the equivelant of $400 a month you dont need a new alder lake system.

These people honestly believe that everyone is going to be fine dumping $1000 on new computers just to use a windows 10 service pack

No I am correct and you are incorrect, the 7700K supports TPM however the chipset does not have it as a requirement. This means that not all chipsets with a 7700K has TPM. This is why its been omitted. Its really not difficult to grasp the technical requirements here.

Also the list of supported CPUs is the published list, it is the authority. You are not. Maybe you should write to MS and complain that their list is not up to date? There are other Alder Lake CPUs on there.

The rest of your post is pure nonsense frankly. I find it laughable that you have claimed you wont be able to browse the web on Windows 10 in 3 years time. There is nobody claiming such lies. You can still browse the web on Windows XP, Vista and 7. So maybe those users should downgrade from Windows 10 if they believe your lies that they wont be able to on Windows 10? You can even get secure browser support with third party software. In fact the company I work for provides this to enterprise customers if they so choose. We have customers paying for enterprise licencing of Windows 7, we can provide support for that and even enable secure browsing. So god knows where you got the idea that this wont be possible on Windows 10.

I work in system support for a FTSE 100 IT & Telecommunications company. We support over 100,000 machines across the country. Not a single one is using a Core 2 Duo. In fact the oldest hardware anywhere is 4th gen Intel and some old AMD APUs. All of which will be upgraded within 3 years time. Corporate and workplace hardware emphasises security, these entitys will benefit more than the average user for switching over to Windows 11 due to the increased security. Ironically however, not all machines are even upgraded to Windows 10. There are still quite a few companies on Windows 7, including much of the British National Health Service, one of the largest employers on the planet.

It seems to me that you are the one making an excuse to be outraged by something that will not affect you. Put simply, there is nothing you can do on Windows 11 that you cant do on Windows 10. Except maybe Auto HDR.

 

[abdulhkeem]

Dear Micro$oft you can keep windows 11 to your selfish selves!

 

[LongJohn]

It seems to me that you are the one making an excuse to be outraged by something that will not affect you. Put simply, there is nothing you can do on Windows 11 that you cant do on Windows 10. Except maybe Auto HDR.

For now, but many developers will drop support for W10 when MS do and you won't be able to install the next edition. When you spent $3000 on a PC that has more then enough power to run say Autodesk Inventor that you need a new PC because MS say so vs a $400 laptop that can be upgraded to W11 but can't even run Inventor leaves a sour taste. Hopefully W10 will not die off that easily.

 

[Loreno]

Oh nostalgia... Microsludge's back to its fair competitive tricks of good ol' PC-DOS days, antitrust is so 99" the new parasites to MS are the poor users who don't own the latest and greatest overpriced crap that'll be on sale in 2 yrs while reviewers rave about the new Ryzen XXX for only 4000$...

 

[seeprime]

That's end-user home enthusiast thinking and I won't argue with you for that narrow segment. But there are hundreds of millions (or billions?) of windows devices performing mundane functions in stores, businesses, manufacturing lines, hospitals, army bases, sanitation plants, etc etc. These devices don't need a trendy new UI, they need to keep working reliably and securely.

If Microsoft pulls security support in 2025, there's two outcomes and both are bad. The better but less likely choice is that these organizations squander some of their budget to needlessly turn the existing devices into e-waste in order to buy new devices to do the exact same thing. The more realistic choice is they keep running whatever app they are running, but with an insecure OS underneath that gets exploited with bad results for them + everyone downstream.

My fantasy outcome would be successive artificial breakages like this eventually lead all organizations with large non-consumer deployments to dump Windows over it. That + good success of the steam deck might finally get us free of the world's primary consumer OS having one side trying to help people and another that is actively working against them such as by artificially obsoleting their devices every few years.

0patch will keep non-Microsoft supported Windows 10 patched. I'm still using a Windows 7 Pro workstation, fully patched using 0patch Pro. It cost $30 per year, but it's worth it to keep using an OS that does what I want much faster than Windows 10 on the same machine.

 

[brucek]

The pros and cons of hotpatching with community-provided patches developed without source code access are probably off-topic for this article. Perhaps some will be comfortable with that as a solution. It is certainly not a full solution as many devices will be operated by organizations that are not aware of this company, or do not want to pay for it, or feel this is just trading one security problem for another.

Ultimately it is Microsoft who provided Windows 10 and any dangerous product defects it may contain, such as security bugs. They should not be allowed to escape liability for these security bugs simply by changing the name to Windows 11, nor should regulators and legislators be OK with Microsoft unilaterally converting a large chunk of a nation's IT systems to e-waste.

To be clear the issue I'm raising here is strictly limited to security bugs. I think it's fine for Microsoft to charge for new features, etc. New computers and/or new software that users want for new benefits offered is progress. Forcing the world to buy new computers simply to obtain security patches is not progress, it's essentially blackmail.

 

[Shadowboxer]

For now, but many developers will drop support for W10 when MS do and you won't be able to install the next edition. When you spent $3000 on a PC that has more then enough power to run say Autodesk Inventor that you need a new PC because MS say so vs a $400 laptop that can be upgraded to W11 but can't even run Inventor leaves a sour taste. Hopefully W10 will not die off that easily.

Those developers wont drop support if a significant number of their customers are using Windows 10. I cant see much changing in October 2025. People are just upset because they want the latest OS. Thats it, there isnt anything these people cant do now or even in 3.5 years time and this only applies to machines over 4 years old today. I cant really see how much better MS can implement an update that requires TPM. The world is going TPM, MS are making users wait an absolute minimum of 7 years before turning any screws at all.

But whats most amusing is the same names on forums screaming abuse at MS also seem to have no beef with Android support from OEMs being about 1-2 years at best.

 

[brucek]

But whats most amusing is the same names on forums screaming abuse at MS also seem to have no beef with Android support from OEMs being about 1-2 years at best.

If you're talking about me, that's because not only do I not use it myself and therefore don't follow it very much, more importantly I have not read any stories about pipelines, hospitals, or sheriff's offices being shut down over it. I suspect this is due to the different roles the two OS's serve in our nation's infrastructure but ultimately I agree: if I start hearing that Google is causing major problems through its policies for which it ought to be held accountable, I'll be just as glad to complain about that too.

As to "People are just upset because they want the latest OS" I'll assume that's aimed at someone else. I've been very clear the issue I'm concerned with is security patches. The systems that need protection do not need any new features nor any new OS, they just need to keep working.

There was a time when computers were moving so fast that several years might seem like an age of civilization. That's no longer true. We're at the stage now where it makes no more sense to say companies have to throw out their industrial IT every X years than it does to say they have to redo the plumbing or electrical in their factories. It needs to be safe for long term use.

 

[Shadowboxer]

If you're talking about me, that's because not only do I not use it myself and therefore don't follow it very much, more importantly I have not read any stories about pipelines, hospitals, or sheriff's offices being shut down over it. I suspect this is due to the different roles the two OS's serve in our nation's infrastructure but ultimately I agree: if I start hearing that Google is causing major problems through its policies for which it ought to be held accountable, I'll be just as glad to complain about that too.

As to "People are just upset because they want the latest OS" I'll assume that's aimed at someone else. I've been very clear the issue I'm concerned with is security patches. The systems that need protection do not need any new features nor any new OS, they just need to keep working.

There was a time when computers were moving so fast that several years might seem like an age of civilization. That's no longer true. We're at the stage now where it makes no more sense to say companies have to throw out their industrial IT every X years than it does to say they have to redo the plumbing or electrical in their factories. It needs to be safe for long term use.

I definitely wasnt referring to you. It was just a general observation I have had about tech forums. The community is raging at MS for only 7 years at a bare minimum of support for an OS they probably got for free. But the same community never seems to outrage over Android device OEMs throwing a single update out for a product.

I think a big issue here is a misconception that think that MS pulling security updates will render their device useless. But thats just not the case. Windows 10 doesnt turn off in October 2025. You would think the tech community would be savvy enough to know this but instead they scream the sky is falling for no reason.

 

[LongJohn]

Those developers wont drop support if a significant number of their customers are using Windows 10. I cant see much changing in October 2025. People are just upset because they want the latest OS. Thats it, there isnt anything these people cant do now or even in 3.5 years time and this only applies to machines over 4 years old today.

No, companies like Autodesk do and will drop their support if MS drop support.

Your right, big business and PC enthusiasts mostly won't be bothered because it's either part of costs or desire for upgrading will happen before support stops. But smaller businesses (that combined make up the highest purchase of PC's) will be hit hardest by this and those owners don't care for the latest they just want it to work and be supported. These companies have to drag out IT spending - A 8+ year old gaming PC would be a crime here but in small businesses it's not uncommon.

 

[Shadowboxer]

No, companies like Autodesk do and will drop their support if MS drop support.

Your right, big business and PC enthusiasts mostly won't be bothered because it's either part of costs or desire for upgrading will happen before support stops. But smaller businesses (that combined make up the highest purchase of PC's) will be hit hardest by this and those owners don't care for the latest they just want it to work and be supported. These companies have to drag out IT spending - A 8+ year old gaming PC would be a crime here but in small businesses it's not uncommon.

Its such a niche scenario. A small business running a small 8+ year old PC. What is it being used for? It cant be for processing sales (EPOS) as banks already dont support it on bare windows devices, its standalone for the card reader (which has a TPM alongside a whole host of other secure features). The best I can think of is a small business using it for Excel or something. It wont stop working but if you have a responsibility to keep any of the data safe you might want to think about upgrading. In practically any case a small Android tablet is probably enough for those peoples needs. If you have a system thats not connected to the internet, you dont need to worry at all.

Any business with an IT support contract will continue to get support on their older devices. Much like how today Enterprise support for Windows 7 is still available.

Also if Autodesk have say 50% of their paying customers on Windows 10 come October 2025 then they wont just can half their revenue. They will extend support. Its about users and money, not what MS wants.