What do you think about the new AMD Clawhammer

[SuperCheetah]

I don't know if all of you have seen the Toms' Hardware article on the new Clawhammer from AMD, but here it is if you haven't:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1/020227/index.html

Basically the jist of the article is that the new Clawhammer chip will be in 64 bit architecture, and be able to support software from 32 bit machines (pretty cool I think). It has the new 0.13 micron chip technology used in the P4's and soon there will be a 0.09 version of the Clawhammer (by soon I mean maybe next year, if we're lucky .

I was just wondering if you guys think that AMD's newest CPU is going to be able to perform up to par with Intel? Can AMD hold out and gain even more market share with their newest CPU? Personally, I hope they can because I have a 1.4 gig T-bird and I couldn't be happier with it! And I believe Intel is ripping people off by not clocking the P4 at what it should be running, and instead underclocking it and charging insanely high prices for it.

Just my opinion though, what's yours?

 

[uncleel]

www.3dspotlight.com

Now that you're a member, do you think you should read & quote www.3dspotlight.com ?
Basically, all tech sites quote news from other sources. The whole purpose of this contest is to get acquainted 3DS

Staff has been buzy w/ news articles on the homepage ( note: the archive is down)
AMD announces Hammer chipsets
AMD's Rambus licence may be used in Hammer
3D Spotlight OpenBoards - Got News?


FORUM:
I want a new AMD horsie
http://207.115.70.83/forum/read_msg.php?tid=811&forumid=ubb5

Athlon XP & Pentium 4 systems
http://www.3dspotlight.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=166&highlight=palamino

Socket A on future Athlon processors?
http://www.3dspotlight.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22&highlight=sledgehammer

AMD K8 Hammer vs. Intel McKinley
http://www.3dspotlight.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23&highlight=clawhammer

Here's some news leads we quoted that pre-date articles on Tom's & Anand's

Originally posted by uncleel: 26 Jan 2002
AMD Sledgehammer Preview
http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?ArticleID=163
News
http://www.athlonxp.com/
http://www.athlonxp.com/news_chipwar.html
http://www.amd.com/usen/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543_553~751,00.html

 

[SuperCheetah]

Hey hey, Uncleel sorry I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here, just didn't know the facts before I spoke. I'll new to this forum and website so I hadn't seen those posts before. I'll have to study up before my next post I suppose Thanks for letting me know though.

 

[land]

Hey! What's wrong with quoting other websites? I thought that what was important for you is not that other sites should not be quoted, but rather that they should be quoted on 3DSpotlight!

As for the Clawhammer, I dont's see how anyone could speculate right now...

 

[Th3M1ghtyD8]

Clawhammer should be pretty good because AFAIK it will still run 32 bit stuff natively, without any performance loss.

Plus - If Intel mess up again, like P4+Rambus, then AMD will surely win the 64-bit wars.

 

[Arris]

Nothing wrong with quoting...

Originally posted by land
Hey! What's wrong with quoting other websites? I thought that what was important for you is not that other sites should not be quoted, but rather that they should be quoted on 3DSpotlight!

As for the Clawhammer, I dont's see how anyone could speculate right now...

Uncleel was just pointing out that the new AMD puppies (claw and sledge) have been discussed and there is previous information available about it right here at 3dspotlight.com.

We can't speculate about the performance differences between the 64bit too much as very little has been let out about them.

Here at Anandtech they have information from the Intel Developers Forum on the demo of the Hammer series chips in action....

Also a very detailed post over at Anandtech documents information about the AMD and Intel offerings.

 

[land]

Well, I do not very much see uncleel's point (and I do not see yours either, since you seem to quote ... anadtech). As for the Clawhammer discussions, I think they're mostly worthless so far. Yes we all know it's going to be better, probably significantly better, but HOW much better no one knows yet.

 

[Arris]

Originally posted by land
Well, I do not very much see uncleel's point (and I do not see yours either, since you seem to quote ... anadtech). As for the Clawhammer discussions, I think they're mostly worthless so far. Yes we all know it's going to be better, probably significantly better, but HOW much better no one knows yet.

Language barrier problem?
There is no problem with quoting other sources........!!!!

I agree with you that without any consumer/reviewer having sampled both future CPUs we can't say how much better one will be than the other, Intel apparently are attaching a huge on-die cache of several megabytes, but because there is so much new technology involved this may or may not give the intel offering an edge over AMD.

Again Uncleel was just suggesting that the other news and posts about the Hammer could be useful. Since some of the same information is available right here at 3ds. He is trying to promote 3dspotlight. By no means is he trying to say members shouldn't post links to other sources. The very nature of the internet is about sharing information. Restricting 3ds forums to content of 3dspotlight news on the main page would be very very short sighted. I am happy to inform you that this is not the case.
If you still don't understand uncleels point please feel free to private message me (PM button on post) and I would be happy to try and explain it further, I am also sure Uncleel would be happy to explain his post...

 

[Didou]

Originally posted by land
Well, I do not very much see uncleel's point (and I do not see yours either, since you seem to quote ... anadtech). As for the Clawhammer discussions, I think they're mostly worthless so far. Yes we all know it's going to be better, probably significantly better, but HOW much better no one knows yet.

The previous discussions on the subject were mostly to discuss where the 64 bit architecture would come in handy. Might want to read them before passing a judgement.

 

[Arris]

Found a link over at www.amdzone.com to a post on realworldtech.com forums estimating what sort of performance increase we can expect with the release of the hammer and its related technologies.

From www.realworldtech.com forums :

Reference point:
- K7 XP 2000+
- at or near end of performance scaling in 0.18 um bulk CMOS
- 1667 MHz, ~700 SPECint_base2k, ~600 SPECfp_base2k

Hammer top bin clock rate (early/mature):
- 5%/5% bump from 12 stage pipeline (extra stages mostly for IPC
gain and for handling extra complexity of x86-64)
- 20%/25% gain from 0.13 um (wire limitation, limited Leff reduction
from late model 0.18 um K7s vs use of 0.09 um FET techniques)
- 10%/15% gain from SOI
Total +35% early, +45% mature


So "IPC" improvements relative to XP (with x86-64 recompilation):
Clawhammer:

int: 20% MC + 5% FE + 5% x86-64 = 30%
FP: 5% MC + 0% FE + 10% x86-64 = 15%

Sledgehammer:

int: 25% MC + 5% FE + 5% x86-64 = 35%
FP: 40% MC + 0% FE + 10% x86-64 = 50%

Just thought that this would give us something to nibble at until any real benchmarks are out

 

[Phantasm66]

It is in the language of Mordor which I shall not utter here..... - Gandalf the Grey.

Once, I was fortunate enough to see Windows NT Server (a 32 bit operating system) running on an Alpha (a 64 bit processor...)

To say that it flew was an understatement. It more of.... sort of.....


DESTROY!
DESTROY!
DESTROY!



That was kind of what it did.....

 

[boeingfixer]

Hammer

I personnally can't wait. I am a full AMD supporter and hope AMD whips Intels butt with this one....like the Athlon's are doing. And all of you who do not like AMD, your welcome. Why ?? If it weren't for AMD, you would still be paying $2500-3500 for your basic PC and we would only be at about 500Mhz if that. Think I am wrong ? Without AMD pressuring Intel what would be Intel's drive to make them fast and cheap. NOTHING !!

Take care all.....

Boeingfixer

 

[Ai Hate]

Re: Hammer

Originally posted by boeingfixer
And all of you who do not like AMD, your welcome. Why ?? If it weren't for AMD, you would still be paying $2500-3500 for your basic PC and we would only be at about 500Mhz if that. Think I am wrong ? Without AMD pressuring Intel what would be Intel's drive to make them fast and cheap. NOTHING !!

let's not turn this into a flame thread, shall we?

 

[boeingfixer]

Re: Re: Hammer

Originally posted by Ai Hate

let's not turn this into a flame thread, shall we?

Hey Ai Hate,

Let me apologize to my fellow forum posters, I did not mean to preach. I shall step off my soap box now., Please forgive me all if I was preaching.

Thanks

Boeingfixer

 

[Ai Hate]

no prob

actually, my post isn't aimed (only) at you. but to those intel lovers who might start to fight back too.
just in case

 

[boeingfixer]

Re: no prob

Originally posted by Ai Hate
actually, my post isn't aimed (only) at you. but to those intel lovers who might start to fight back too.
just in case

Thanks, hammer is just one of those things we are all going to have to wait and see. Hopfully it will be all I have been reading about it.

It sure has a ton of pins huh ??

I also just read that Samsung is sampling DDR 400. Now thats a performance leap !!

 

[erwin1978]

Like my dog, I'm drooling profusely over the Hammers' potentials. I don't think the Hammer will catch on like a wild fire like AMDs current processors have. Intel already has its Itanium out and it hasn't triggered a 64bit-frenzy and I don't expect any different for AMD. It was smart of them to make the Hammer cpu backwards compatible with 32bit applications; this will make the transition seamlessly.

 

[boeingfixer]

Originally posted by erwin1978
I don't think the Hammer will catch on like a wild fire like AMDs current processors have. Intel already has its Itanium out and it hasn't triggered a 64bit-frenzy and I don't expect any different for AMD.

I am going to disagree with you on this. When Athlon came out, it was predicted not to be anything to recon with Intel. Well alot of people where wrong on that. I think Hammer will be the same. I think alot of us AMD supporters are going to abandon our Athlons and and choose hammer. Especially if it is priced like Athlons have been and boards are well priced like now too.

 

[erwin1978]

Well, this time AMD is not a no-name tag newbie that's trying to dethrone the monarch that was Intel. There is no longer a doubt that AMD can man-handle Intel and bring it down to its knees.

I don't doubt that 64 bit cpus is the way to the future, but it won't happen over night.