Ive read the forum rules, and ive acted in the forum in a way i believe follows those guidelines, but it seems that some things i would think of as acceptable language isnt accepted by a lot of other people, if your from the UK, then you prolly accept words like "Hell", "Damn", "****", "*****" etc.

Its not just the cultural language issue either, "Gentlemanly Behaviour" is also a very blurry generalisation, Gentlemanly as in we must all wear monacles and call each other "Old Chump" or Gentlemanly as in we can have a bit of a laugh together, and use light matey language towards each other (which is what i would think is meant).

I think we should have a more in depth and detailed rules page with a list of words we can't use and a more comprehensive guideline of acceptable behaviour.

imo the forums "Family Rating" has been taken way too far and i feel i cant have a joke with anybody anymore incase i get banned for expressing an opinion or banned for causing offence to somebody unintentionally.

I would like opinions from ppl not just in the US, it would be interesting to see the opinions from people around the world.

I think we've functioned fine without a more descriptive set of rules for a few years now - and "I feel" that common sense would let you know when you're stepping over the line. If you review your post and think to yourself, "I wonder if that will offend the previous poster?", then it probably needs to be edited. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anything at all about you or anyone else on the forums in particular, but as far as I can tell the moderators and administrators of Techspot enjoy/prefer the "Family Rating" of the forums. We want to prevent our forum from mutating into the filth most other forums have become. You should see no pr0n or WaRez or even vulgarity here. We have to take it pretty seriously because if you keep pushing the line eventually you don't really have any boundaries. </rant>

DoM, you have been a member for sometime now and you've already had a good taste of what is the right tone to remain in good standing in these forums. To put things short, we rather have 'personality' toned down a bit that being closer to a flame war, even if you were joking, this is not acceptable:Originally posted by (=DoM=)
how could it be fake you idiotsFrom our Guidelines: Criticize ideas, not people. We won’t stand, nor support personal flaming.
No questions asked, that is a rule that must be followed.

Of less relevance but still important: Avoid double posting, instead of posting twice in a row, next time you could edit your previous post, that is, unless someone had already replied to your original message. This last note not only goes to DoM but other members that have been doing the same ocassionally.

I have to go now but will be around later to see your responses on this matter... TS is one of the few tech forums that have been kept really clean, let's keep it that way.

Rules suck! I suppose you could make more, though as I never read the original ones I don't think I'd notice. :o

Vulgarity is a bludgeon while sarcasm is a sword. I've seen folks shredded here without explitives- not that its the purpose of TS, but everyone loves a spirited debate! :hotbounce

I do think that a broader selection of ideas should be allowed because I think it would contribute to a sense of community. I was disappointed that the George Bush thread was removed, but it isn't my house- I just lurk here. ;)

It's not that we in the US don't accept those kind of words, just not on TechSpot. If you want to read or see those things, this isn't the place for it. As you say the 'family friendly' rating is what we try to achieve here, but that doesn't mean we can't start unusual topics of conversation.

In regards to the Bush thread, we have been around to know what sorts of threads set others off. Just like the AMD vs. Intel threads, it would cause a huge flame war about who's for Bush and who's against. And we just don't like seeing those sorts of things around here, so they are removed.

Originally posted by Godataloss
Rules suck! ..... but everyone loves a spirited debate!I wouldn't say that's the right way to look at things, just visit a few other forums and you will notice how quickly a bad moderated board can turn into an useless, non-informative board.

Rules give members and moderators a general guideline on what's acceptable and what not, and that's the first question DoM came up with at the beginning of this thread.

As for the politics posts... I have nothing against those and I've given complete liberty to moderators do what they believe will be best for the site, I've been thinking for some time however, opening a new board: "Offtopic"... you know, the Meeting Spot should in theory serve those needs but it does not completely.
What I mean is that the Meeting Spot still carries some of TS' computer background which caps the possibility of starting interesting conversations outside the tech world, not necessarily debates but there's always room for insightful opinions and ideas.

So let's take this "What Is/Isn't Acceptable?" thread onto another topic, what do you guys say about an "Offtopic" forum?

An off-topic forum can't hurt IMO. If it doesn't work that much & becomes useless we can scrap it like the Programming forum.;)

& BTW does that mean that when a thread starts to go off board we send it to that Off-topic forum ?

I think an Offtopic forum would be great, i dont go out to offend anybody believe me, when i call somebody a mong, or an idiot, christ, i even call my mum a mong and an idiot sometimes :P its not meant to be offensive, just a matey dig.

I thought i knew some of you ell enough to get away with that, obviously not.

But back onto the offtopic idea, would it be possible to split it into a few sub categories? ie, Politics, Funny Stuff, Philosophy, Radiohead (:)) or something?

Anyway, this is turning out to be the most productive thread ever. Can i appologise to anybody who may have taken offence on the HL3 Confirmed thread, i didnt mean anything by it, its just the way i speak, so sorry about that.

Originally posted by (=DoM=)
its not meant to be offensive, just a matey dig.

That's something you can get away with in a chat room & such where you know the people really well & they know you.

On a forum, even with extensive use of smilies, it's not always clear how serious the other person is & you can't always predict how the other person will react.

We just try to avoid that altogether on these forums & so far it's worked quite well ( whenever we gave a flame-prone thread the benefit of the doubt, it always went to a useless flame like first predicted ).

I agree with everything you have said in your last few posts... the problem is (and is a known fact) that it's not the same calling your friend an "idiot" while talking to him as a way of speaking, than writing and reading someone else is calling you that... actually I believe that was how smilies were born, used during computer chats for taking away some seriousness to expressions that could be taken as offensive. Once again I will reiterate that any personal comments are not allowed in the forums, just to avoid this kind of problems

As for the Offtopic forum, I believe it's going up for sure but still would like to hear from more members if we should diversify that or make it just general (let's remember this isn't a huge forum).

Can i throw another thought into the equasion, i know Java chat rooms are a bit dodgy and quite frankly amateurish for a website like this, but i think it would be a big success on this site, not everybody has irc (including me) and they just like a quick chat with people quickly without any hastle without having to fill in a massive forum registration form, this will also cut down on forum members who post once to ask a question then never again and will diversify the website further. Could we at least try it? for a week or 2 and wee how it goes, i think it would be cool.

Just a thought

another thing too, we should have this...

http://mushroom.nosox.org/b3ta/norwoo.gif

tiled in the background of all the pages of the site, you know it makes sense :)

Javachat is available via the starchat site..

Just start it up and log on to the channel #3dspotlight

I mean on the actual site itself

What difference does it make wether it's on the site or not ?

It will only be read by the people allready in the chatroom either way.

coz people are lazy, including me.

The idea behind it is Generic Computer Enthusiast, (lets call him Mr.A).....

Mr.A comes to techspot.com looking for help, he gets BSOD's all the time, he doesnt know what to do, He is lazy, like me and cant be bothered registering on the forum, he sees a button on the mainscreen "Java Chat!" he clicks, it loads, he can fire off his question and get an immediate reply, no extensive forum registrations, no hunting IRC channels, just quick, simple advice, thats all. Mr.A leaves very happy because Didou told him how to fix his problem, Mr.A dances into the sunset, The End.

See, did i not sell it well enough then?

Heh, what could people post in Off Topic forum? If posts are off topic, what is/was the original topic? :giddy:

I think The Meeting Spot has served this purpose well enough so far, although I've seen some comments about some threads that are 'off topic' even for The Meeting Spot. Like Julio said, this is (still) a small site, while we have over 12000 members, most of them haven't posted even once, so I don't see real need for more forums.

I'm also a bit afraid that kind of place could turn into a flame forum easily.

Well that's the whole point. That Java Chat can simply point to the page which loads the StarChat IRC java applet & he wouldn't even notice that he's on another site or that he's using IRC.

Try it -> StarChat IRC Java Chat (http://www.starchat.net/chat/index.php?nick=Didou&submitbutton=+Chat+) ( works with IE only ).

A public chatroom would only attract bored people who will do anything for some attention in a chatroom. The desired type ot attention being a ban.
The little effort to get connected to an IRC chatroom is a very effective means to keep out idle spammers.

The forums here are not only about helping people asking questions, they are a collection of hopefully useful information. The problems discussed here will be available for anyone coming hre in the future. In a chatroom nothing remains unless you keep your own logs. Not to mention that the chances of getting any useful info from a public chatroom are very slim - anyone ever tried asking questions in Yahoo! computer related rooms?

Another scenario:
Mr Lazy is browsing the TS front page for news. He is bored so he joins the hatroom, ASLs everyone and mentions that TS sucks. To the next person coming in asking for help he suggests that they open command prompt and run "format c: /y". Since chat medium is instant, his "advice" can't be moderated ...

Putting a chatroom on the main TS site would also mean that TS takes some degree of responsibility for the content. Thi means only problames for TS adminds. The current #3dspotlight IRC channel is not officially affiliated with TS and this allows different rules and more freedom.

I totally disagree Nodsu, Chat rooms are helpful, i was an admin in Compu-help chat rooms that MSN hosted for nearly 2 years (before they shut down all chat rooms in the UK) and i used to enjoy helping people, people didnt come in to get banned at all, we had the odd spammer, or bot, but they were few and far between.

Forget it now, its been built up to much.

All i thought was to have a button on the mainpage but it doesnt matter now, leave it

Sorry I jumped into this a bit late.....just noticed it. I tend to think that what's currently offered should serve this site nicely. It's run this way well with no major issues (other than the occasional locked thread). As far as rules go, there are plenty. Anybody with a touch of brains can peruse these forums and get a sense of what we're all about and what's allowed/disallowed. This is a tech forum with a bit of off-topic.....hence the name TechSpot. It should be kept that way IMHO.

I know I haven't been around here as much as most but this is something I feel strongly about. And as always, it's......

.....just my $.02. :D

In regards to the Bush thread, we have been around to know what sorts of threads set others off. Just like the AMD vs. Intel threads, it would cause a huge flame war about who's for Bush and who's against. And we just don't like seeing those sorts of things around here, so they are removed.

So I guess in addition to the rules there ALREADY is an unwritten methodology that dictates the removal of posts that may lead to unlawful behavior. I thought the whole point of a moderator was to remove posts that were inappropriate and close a thread if it got out of hand. Mine was the second post on the thread- entirely factual and offensive only to the subject of the topic, not to any users or previous posts- very much comparable to saying Nvidia cards suck- dont buy them.

I am all for a Humanity forum where TS member could discuss carbon-based issues in the same mature manner that we (usually) discuss other matters.

I agree with Godataloss, a Humanity forum would be great, a forum where anybody can express open opinions, i have lots of opinions to express, especially about the whole bush debate and his corrupt presidency, but thats another issue, that would go down a storm a Humanity forum.

Another one would be a music forum, i would be a keen poster in that section.

Mike Moore for President!

Radiohead Own!

...and so on

we deffinately should have a politics forum too, anytimes a good time for a mass debate (sorry, couldnt resist)

As far as music goes, nothing stops you from posting such threads in the meeting spot. I don't think a music forum itself is necessary.

If you do a search you'll allready find a few music related threads in the meeting spot.

i thought the meeting spot, is where you introduce yourself when you first become a member, didnt realise it was also an Off-topic forum

There is a stand-alone Introduce Yourself forum.

Take a look at the meeting spot, it seems you don't really see the kind of threads we create in there.;)

oh crap, sorry, forgot about that one, and also, oh crap sorry Julio, you told me off for always double posting and ive done it 3 times since you told me :P sorry, i post something, then i remember that i missed something out, its just a bad habit, ill try and stop

Basically just try to behave like an adult and remember that even although lots of people do use bad language in real life, not everyone appreciates this. We have a responsibility to shield minors from anything offensive, and we have a responsbility not to let ourselves down with poor behaviour. That's all.

Now, another way to make sure that you behave like an adult is being careful not to offend people. Treat others always with respect and remember that even although you might not agree with someone, this does not necessarily mean that they are wrong - perhaps you are wrong or what they are saying is true from a certain point of view.

Above all, try to be a gentlemen. If I can manage it then its surely not hard!

Holy cow, there was a lot of action in here since last night.

Anyway, Godataloss, I didn't remove your posts, I generally don't go into The Meeting Spot, but I was speaking on behalf of all moderators as to how most things work. Sorry if your post got removed, but it was probably done for a reason.

Further, I think an Off-Topic forum can be looked at as a good thing and a bad thing. It could be good to get the debates and heated issues out of the technical aspects of TS. While it could also be a forming grounds for carrying over the debates and flaming into other parts of TS, which would be bad. I'm sure people would read the Off-Topic forum and think it is ok to act that way all over the boards. Just a thought here.

I don't think we need an off topic forum. Meeting Spot should be for that.
As far as a Politics forum, I don't think thats a good idea because its such a sensitive topic and there are lots of different sides to every story that each part of the world hears. Everyone wants to believe the story they heard is the correct one. Rarely does someone change their mind on something like that unless they were completely undecided in the first place.
There are entire forums dedicated to politics and other such controvercial topics, if you are that interested go to them. As mentioned above its just going to piss people off at each other and that will likely spill over into other forums we have here.

I think the whole goal is not to step on people's toes.

Accidents happen.. People don't always understand the rules and there will be ToS violations for as long as this board exists... We know this.

Just be courteous, helpful and do your best to remain fair and open. It's impossible to please everyone and nearly impossible to take in consideration everyone's feelings about being offended etc...

If something slips, its our job to take care of it. And we will deal with it as it comes.

i think that a politics forum would be bad idea. politics is not a fun topic to talk about since people feel so emotionally charged about their position. discussing politics would not persuade a person to "switch sides;" it will just reaffirm their beliefs may it be correct or incorrect.

that politics forum would be destined to flame wars, even more so than ATi vs. Nvidia or AMD vs. Intel threads.

I too feel that we don't need anything more off-topic than what we allready have in "The Meeting Spot"...

It is, as has been stated before, all too likely to spill over into other parts of the forum. Next thing you know and we have flamewars popping up all over the place resulting in bans. And all just because someone got a bit overexcited in the political/religious part of the forum.

I'm very active in politics in Norway, and know that what I described above happen even in regular political parties every once in a while, and when it does friendships are broken, people are hurt and everybody looses. I don't want to see that happen here.



DoM> Just Curious, what prompted this thread?
Was it just the lack of bad language? ;)

I remember when I got here, I had a problem moderating my language to an acceptable level, since I tended to swear a lot, but after a while I found that it got more and more easy, until it became second nature.
And you know what? People are more willing to listen to someone who doesn't use an expletive as every other word...

And if you really want to show how agitated you are, you can use formatting to get your point across, and you might find it to be much more effective...

(Note: I'm not trying to tell you what to do, only to show how I found the lack of swearing useful both on and off the board...)

What prompted me to question the tone of the forum is what i feel to be its sterileness it feels so controlled and uniform and its unearving, its not bad language, its just the lack of personality imo which makes the whole place grey and bland, on other forums i used to post on there wasnt flaming, we had a close community which all agree'd with each other.

Lets just trial an off topic forum for 2 weeks, post on it as you would if it wasnt going to be under the microscope, lets see how much flaming goes on.

The problem with an off-topic forum will be that if it indeed proves popular, it will drown out the type of posts that are the whole reason I read TS- that is to better understand these expensive hunks of metal and plastic.
DoM- as you seem to be the prime motivator behind this movement, why dont you try to spice up the #3dspotlight channel. I finally dusted off mIRC last night and logged on and boy is that place in need of some spice ( I think the UK/US time difference may play a part in this). And as Julio seemed receptive to the idea of a new forum here on TS, perhaps he would consider a space on the homepage where the current topic/ list of users on #3dspotlight could be posted.

True, but we dont know that untill we trial it, thats all i ask, a 2 week trial. Im not the prime motivator, i just brought the issue to the surface, if it is an issue at all.

2 Weeks Julio, thats all, i did scan that image for you :P

Originally posted by (=DoM=)
What prompted me to question the tone of the forum is what i feel to be its sterileness it feels so controlled and uniform and its unearving, its not bad language, its just the lack of personality imo which makes the whole place grey and bland, on other forums i used to post on there wasnt flaming, we had a close community which all agree'd with each other.

Lets just trial an off topic forum for 2 weeks, post on it as you would if it wasnt going to be under the microscope, lets see how much flaming goes on.

Well we try and keep a nice balance between personality showing through in posts and several people having a pointless conversation in a thread about computers. Nothing worse than searching a forum and ending up having to read 40 posts of "banter" before getting to the solution your looking for. I think thats why it probably seems sterile and bland. And as far as a close community I think there are a core of longer serving forum members that I feel a strong sense of community with. And no disrespect, but you have only been registered since february. You'll get to know us over time ;)

I think the Meeting Spot could see more use but, dunno if this is a good or bad thing, it seems to receive less posts because users are used to us being a no nonsense information source rather than somewhere to chat about the weather :p

Personally for offtopic chat I use www.otcentral.com

Well, that would be the ideal solutution, a different forum for all of your needs, but it would be nice to have a singular forum, an uber forum if you like, where we can disguss all things

Nice mix of "discuss" and "disgust" there :p

If something does everything then it's good for nothing. These are the only forums I visit and that is because these are the only forums without **** floating over everything I have found.

The 2 week trial wouldn't hurt anyone though. Won't hurt me because I won't be reading it :p

We should make up a separate set of very strict and specific rules for the BS forum maybe?

We should make up a separate set of very strict and specific rules for the BS forum maybe?

Nodsu - the forum Nazi! :D

For the record.. personality shows through plenty. After all, I never knew how suspicious to be of Didou and his midget thinking until he blackjacked (http://www.techspot.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11205&highlight=blackjack) me 3/4 of the way through that thread..

Let's not mention the favorite OS flame wars, the picture thread, or the extra off color jokes that get inserted daily.

There are plenty of ways to circumvent the rules grasshopper. You just need personality to do so. ;)

Didou is fine as long as you don't open his cage ;)

I resent that !!! http://users.skynet.be/fa426454/images/Smilies/athlonmp.gif

http://smilies.xibase.com/poke2.gif

I think also (although this is somewhat of a rehash of above posts) that you can really benefit from the irc room. I'll get in touch with Goalie and see about posting his FAQ on how to get there (we never posted it but he made one) and I'll replace the current bloated 'sticky' with Goalie's.

Most of the people that are in the IRC room are mods and long time members of Techspot and we all know each other fairly well I think. We aren't real serious in there, we like to have some fun, and I think that that would add to the 'Techspot expierence' for you guys that think its too strict here, because you'd get to know us more that way. Us being long time members is also probably why we don't sense this 'lack of community' or whatever was (mentioned by DOM I think) above.

As mentioned above the website is one of the few that you can get answers fairly quickly and not have to read through 18 posts to find the answer, to me I like it feeling 'clean'.

Hahaha! I can see Arris was getting bored! :grinthumb Anyway, so we can't swear at all? :eek:

I'm not a moderator so I can't say for sure but in my experience.
One can swear moderately and in right places using mild swear words. S***, f***, p*** and lighter stuff like damn, friggin, stupid are allowed in small quantities if they are needed to make a point.

I think you need at least "Techspot Paladin" rank to be able to judge the appropriateness of swear words tho :p

Hahaha! Okay, not that I was going to swear you know! But sometimes they just come out... Hahaha! ;)