I was wondering what everyone thought of the feasability of having dry ice as a cooling element? I have a 120mm fan in there already and I think I could make the space to have a tray for the dry ice to be in some water... then I would get a very cool fog effect (I have plexiglass case on one side) and I could throw some pretty lights in there... everyone would OOOHHH and AAAAAHHH at my ingenuity... I'm really not so sure how much of an effect this would have on the actual temp of the thing but it would look SWEET... umm yeah tell me if you've heard of an idea like this or if you think it wouldn't work... or if you have anything to add at all...

It is not often that someone uses aliteration on a thread, nor do they often suggest putting dry ice in a rig. Im not sure if i would, but it would defintly give it a creepy look. My only concern, and i am no dry ice expert, isnt there a amount of moisture that is given off by dry ice? But maybe not. Good luck either wat

Sean

having an open container of water in a computer will undoubtedly lead to a bad experience.
dry ice is carbon dioxide in frozen form. when it warms up, it sublimes (term for going from solid directly to a gas) instead of becoming a liquid. it does not last forever and you would be opening your case frequently to add it. the ice will remove heat from anything metal it's touching, causing a buildup of condensation on those parts.umm yeah tell me if you've heard of an idea like this or if you think it wouldn't workheard it many a time, but ive never seen it done, on account of the concerns i already mentioned. plus you'd constantly be paying for new ice as it's not the same stuff you make in your freezer.

hmm... thanks for the input... I probably wouldn't just have that running all the time, just if I ever had someone over, so I could show it off... dry ice comes for $1 per lb here so I don't think I'd do too badly in the financial way... yeah an open container of water scares me, but I think I would make the sides high enough... I dunno about the condensation... that is a good point... I'd like need to drain it off... or something... anyone else have something to say? like maybe how to make it work... heheh, shucks I really thought this could work... oh well...

you can always smoke some pot to give your system the desired effect...and it's an activity you can do with your friends. ;)

i read an article about dry ic3 in MaxPc (www.maximumpc.com) and it had soso effects. Its just too dang3rous 4 most people :|

yeah it has uhhh... averse effects to the skin...

This might be just as crazy as the whole dry ice idea, but here it is.
You could put a second plexiglass panel about 1-2" behind the main window, enclose it on the sides and put the dry ice in the compartment. It would keep the worries of condensation away(it's contained), and it would still look cool. Just a thought.

not really feasible. CO2 boils at a low temperature.... mainframes that supercool use noble gases like argon or xenon..... otherwise they use liquid nitrogen (not a noble gas, but not flammable).

I have NEVER recommended using water to cool overclocking computers. Water and electricity just don't mix. If you get the smallest leak - bye bye computer.

Some have talked about using alcohol.... (isopropyl or glycol) as an antifreeze cooler.... never really discussed this with anyone who had done it though.

the problem is that alcohol lacks the heat capacatence of water. water cooling has just got to be done right, is all.

I have NEVER recommended using water to cool overclocking computers. Water and electricity just don't mix. If you get the smallest leak - bye bye computer.

Some have talked about using alcohol.... (isopropyl or glycol) as an antifreeze cooler.... never really discussed this with anyone who had done it though.


This is not true.

Water is not conductive. (At least not with the power we have access to) Anyone who is anyone that watercools will, at the very least, use distilled water. Now granted, the water will not remain pure, but the fear of it suddenly rupturing and causing a massive short is akin to fearing your car's radiator will suddenly start unloading on the contacts to your car battery. You can also add other chemicals to the mix to keep it pure enough and keep its conductivity low. Water cooling systems these days are very reliable, and THE primary use for them, aside from noise, IS to overclock. Not use water to cool an overclocked machine? I suppose you think that air cooling alone is sufficient?

Sounds very risky, dry ice starts to sublime at -78.5°C, which makes it hard to store as most freezers have a minimum temperature of -20°C. Secondly you would be releasing a lot of CO2 gas in a confined space and would your PC case be able to withstand the extreme drop in temperature without cracking.

Water is not conductive.if this was false i'd have died in may 2004 of electrocution. my tap water barely conducts anything at all.

water is not conductive

true. PURE water is not conductive. Tapwater tends to be pretty coductive though by nature of the impurities in it.

CO2 gas in a confined space and would your PC case be able to withstand the extreme drop in temperature without cracking.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about my body being able to handle the increased CO2 in the air from regular use of this party trick. Normal air contain's only about 0.4% CO2 or lower, and to unleash a full Lb of dry ice into a small room... ... well, it's going to play with the ratios just a little I would have thought.

Using it once or regularly?
Anyhow, due to the CO² level in this I'd say there are easier and cheaper methods to give your friends and yourself a oneway ticket to Walhalla.
Using it regularly will make continious ventilation of your room an absolute necessity.
Dry-ice is always used in ventilated area's and poured in containers in open air, and that's for a very good reason.
Second due to the sublimation, when it contacts your skin you can severely burn yourself. :hotouch:
What are you trying to do?
Build a cool looking and fine running system or are you trying to make the national news? :knock:

Liquid cooling is always superior to air cooloing from a thermodynamic standpoint, and yes, if you know what your're doing I suppose water cooling would work good. But I don't recommend it for newbies. Water and electronics just don't mix.

Liquid cooling is indeed a better way of cooling then aircooling, technically speaking.
It is more complex to build-in in your system and to maintain and therefor not that suitable for dummies in this area.
I also agree on the fact that before something enters the market some, sometimes nutcases, make a lot effort and destroy a lot of equipment before a market-suitable product can be released.
The first watercoolers for pc's I heard about, where demolishing more machines then giving them better cooling.
For instance a small element they lacked was mg-probes (mg=magnesium) which caused oxidation pretty fast with people getting up and find their computers flooded.
Needless to say those PC's where trashbin-food on the moment that happened.
Of course you can think of designing better ways to cool a PC.
In this dry-ice, to use the above mentioned example, perhaps could be an improvement.
But if you want to do that, I suggest you search yourself a very good sponsor and another PC, more then one will be needed, then yours to do the testing on and of course a decent, safe, working/testing environment.
Also, always inform yourself very well about the products you want to use.
This is necessary because you have to know in advance what possible reactions might occur in each stage of the process.
You don't want yourself get killed or severally injured over some chemical reactions that you didn't think about.
If you have a design in mind, great, set it out on paper, think about it twice, correct where you think is necessary and when you finally got something that you can build...
Start all over as if you where drafting from scratch.
After that you can start building your first proto and do some real-life testing.
Even then you'll be surprised of all the problems you'll be facing and have to find a solution for.

to use CO2 cooling, you would need a compressor to recycle the gas once it boiled at room temperature. It would be a kind of sophisticated refrigerator at a small scale. This is not practicle and also would be energy consuming. The evaoprator side of the system would be very hot and would have to be external to the computer case. In theory it could work.

I kind of compare this project to the pogue vapor carborator of the 1930s that got 200 miles to the gallon by totally vaporizing gasoline before combustion. In practice it was very dangerous to put together and quite difficult to assemble.

The plus side of CO2 is that it is not a conductor of electricity unlike water, which is a very good conductor due to the fact the molecules of water contain hydrogen.

The bad side of of CO2 is that it is a very mild corrosive. In a contained system this would not present an issue, however under high pressures and temperatures it does factor in.

The plus side of CO2 is that it is not a conductor of electricity unlike water, which is a very good conductor due to the fact the molecules of water contain hydrogen.WATER IS A BAD CONDUCTOR. hydrogen molecules are responsible for making water polar, not conductive. water is only conductive when it has substances dissolved in it, creating ions. didn't you take chemistry in high school?

you could have a closed loop CO2 system with a compressor to return the sublimed gas back to a solid..... but that part would get quite hot.

I was thinking recently that there are products sold for the automotive coolant aftermarket that might work (like antifreeze additives) that help cool engines.

the addition of automotive products to the cooling water would render it conductive.

Water is already conductive. In a closed loop system it wouldn't matter.

A water cooler mod for a computer is essentially an auto radiator on a small scale.

Adding a product like heat-take, would increase the surfactancy of the coolant thereby allowing additional heat removal.

In a water cooler system, water never actually touches the CPU.

http://www.alltronics.com/peltier_devices.htm or you can play with this.

Hehehehe, the way things are going on in this section we might indeed end up with a new CPU-cooling system.
Wouldn't that be "cool"? ;)

Zephead said:
the addition of automotive products to the cooling water would render it conductive.
Tedster said:
Water is already conductive. In a closed loop system it wouldn't matter.
A water cooler mod for a computer is essentially an auto radiator on a small scale.

Indeed addition of automitive cooling improvers, like antifreeze or synthetic coolingliquid, will improve its conductivity, but then again that only mathers if your system starts leaking.
Also true, it is after all a closed circuit, so the conductivity of the "water/coolingliquid" doesn't really mather.
Good maitenance should prevent that.
I was more like thinking in the direction of synthetic oils that are used for cooling.
They've got a few advantages to water, lower or even no conductivity and higher temperature resistance.
For instance, since we're comparing to automotive, the water circuit of a car is going over the red at a 115-120°C but the oil-system can go up to 150°C before things starting to go the wrong way. :hotbounce

yes but oil is not as good a thermal conductor as heat, plus you would need a stronger pump because oil is more viscuous.

I like the idea of a water/antifreeze system.

yes but oil is not as good a thermal conductor as heat, plus you would need a stronger pump because oil is more viscuous.

I like the idea of a water/antifreeze system.Super Peltier Junction
These devices were used in picnic coolers; as they consume 80.6 Watts they should be used with a large heatsink (like maybe 4x6"). We're offering them here at a bargain price but we don't want folks to smoke 'em either. Here's the data: measures 40x44x3.3mm, deltaT=79deg, Imax=8.1A, Vmax=16.1V, Thot=50deg C, Qmax=80.6W Made in USA by Tellurex under their P/N CZ1-1.4-127-1.14. Large quantity available, substantial discount for cash customers buying lots of 1000 or more.
DATA SHEET Hint: 23F004 heatsink fan assembly may be used for cooling the hotside of these.
04U003 $14.95

Water is already conductive. In a closed loop system it wouldn't matter.we have already established that water itself is not conductive. only when substances dissolve in the water and create ions does the water begin to conduct electricity.
and it would matter because a system cooled with conductive water is far more likely to be destroyed in the event of a leak than if the system had contained pure(er) water.

Tedster said:
yes but oil is not as good a thermal conductor as heat, plus you would need a stronger pump because oil is more viscuous.

Sorry mate but oil is a better thermal conductor then water is, but it is indeed the pump you'll need and the power it will use that's going to be the issue in this possibility.
Also when using oil you must calculate in that its viscuousuty changes over its temprange, plus that some synthetic oils can be pretty corrosive too.

Zephead said:
we have already established that water itself is not conductive. only when substances dissolve in the water and create ions does the water begin to conduct electricity.
and it would matter because a system cooled with conductive water is far more likely to be destroyed in the event of a leak than if the system had contained pure(er) water.
Indeed only pure water is not conductive, but that you'll only find in labs.
In short, even distilled water is conductive, less then tabwater I agree but still.
On the other hand, what are the charcteristics of the currently used coolingwater/liquid?

1000cc said:
Super Peltier Junction
These devices were used in picnic coolers; as they consume 80.6 Watts they should be used with a large heatsink (like maybe 4x6"). We're offering them here at a bargain price but we don't want folks to smoke 'em either. Here's the data: measures 40x44x3.3mm, deltaT=79deg, Imax=8.1A, Vmax=16.1V, Thot=50deg C, Qmax=80.6W Made in USA by Tellurex under their P/N CZ1-1.4-127-1.14. Large quantity available, substantial discount for cash customers buying lots of 1000 or more.
DATA SHEET Hint: 23F004 heatsink fan assembly may be used for cooling the hotside of these.
04U003 $14.95

I've visited the site and am still working on the how-it-works.
Perhaps you could write down a pretty article about it.
Explaining this equipment in general with a short "how-does-this-work" weaven in.
It has got potential, that I agree upon, but I'm not just fully through with understanding it.

I've visited the site and am still working on the how-it-works.
Perhaps you could write down a pretty article about it.
Explaining this equipment in general with a short "how-does-this-work" weaven in.
It has got potential, that I agree upon, but I'm not just fully through with understanding it.http://www.tropicool.co.nz/ start here.

Sorry mate but oil is a better thermal conductor then water is, but it is indeed the pump you'll need and the power it will use that's going to be the issue in this possibility.
Also when using oil you must calculate in that its viscuousuty changes over its temprange, plus that some synthetic oils can be pretty corrosive too.

. i dont agree here The reason Suzuki FAIL wining races in the mid 80s on street legal sportbike was becouse oil cooling on racing bikes was not better than water cooled ..Yamaha and Honda & Kawi went water Suzuki abandon the idea. corrosion is not a problem i have torn dozens and dozens of motorcycle engines thru many years. also the most exotic racing bikes the 500cc 2cycle Grand Prix bikes are all watercooled SINCE GP racing started. This are million dollar bikes.

Although I'd like the idea of racing technology used in a rig.
On the other hand Porsche had all it's best models racing oilcooled and they've ever been the most stable and secure racingcars around the world.
But this is a complete other usage of oil as cooling, it's also a different kind of oil, complete other characteristics.
Also high-power transformers are oil-cooled.
This is a very special oil, which is quite corrosive too, but for that application it's still the best way to have them running "cool".
The transformers themselves are in an oilfilled tub in this.
It's a completely closed system and the oil is also used as an insulator between the poles (end-connectors).
I know this 'cause and old-colleague and close friend of mine works as a design/development engineer for Pauwels trafo (a worldwide known Belgian company building exclusively high output-transformers)
I'm talking transformers you'll find in powerplants and downwards 'til street-level, all are oil-cooled.
I went true the Super Peltier Junction idea, it's a cool "dry" idea and they use it already for CPU cooling I saw.
I just wonder why it hasn't been more commonly known on the market?
Is it to "heavy" for the power-supply?
Too expensive? I Didn't think so.
Not powerfull enough for todays CPU-temps?
I mean you need a bit more cooling for a CPU running aircooled at around 50°C then you need for a fridge (closed airbox) coming from the environmental 30°C max (Belgium).
And you need to do this extra cooling on a surface of about 2.25cm² (taking 1.5cm sides on your cpu (hot-spot) as they're designed today.
Indeed the square bump in the centre is the surface that gives way all heat.

power wise they dont need much. heat transfer depends on chip size . peltier are more efficient making heat but they do cool.. the hot side gets very hot needs good heatsink and fans . case ventilation must be good since the peltier creates lots of heat. the ideal mobo would have the CPU on the other side "this way the hot air does not get dump inside the case.http://www.tetech.com/

http://www.tetech.com/publications/ more on peltier.

So, if I understand this wright, the problem is the dissipated heat from the Peltier cooler.
To get enough cooling you'd be producing so much heat one wood almost need to have it's heatsink placed outside the case and that heatsink should be huge and very well fan-cooled.
But then we're back to square 1, 'cause wouldn't we be better of then with traditional aircooling?
I mean, no huge heatsink, no power needed for the element and we're already dealing with lots of fanning at this moment, which we wanted to prevent and get rid of in the first place?
Or am I to critical here?
It looks like a very nice concept though.
I'm asking myself the Peltier junction cools one side and heats the other, so what would happen if you mount let's say, for example, 3 junction above each other, or is the heated side that hot that the cool side can't have that.
Of course the top-side would then almost be an electrical grill, I think. :confused:
Mmmh, someone ever experimented with these? :rolleyes:

you got the right idea . being inside is not big roblem as long you got enough fans blowing air in and out . i have a game box 3800+ that i must build so i cant mess with peltiers right now .i have seen a CPU one but was very simple using just 1 pelt . They have a watercooled one for watercooled system this really gets cold. and you must insulated so it wont create ice and water around the CPU. they also have a water chiller peltier block that you could run the water thru and lower the water temp.

read this since i kind agree . is from another forum. =Watercooling was fine... just wasn't cutting the cooling I need, I don't trust peltiers cooling my components that much after it KILLED MY FX5900!

I can't believe you actually bought that, how much did it cost you? a good 300US at least? You could've saved so much money if you just paid a visit to a junkyard for a radiator, and went to Wal-Mart for a pump. You could make your own waterblocks, but I don't recommend it, so you buy the waterblocks, CPU/VGA, and HDD if you have Raptor or 15000rpm+ SCSI drives. I really don't recommend chipset blocks, since a Vantec Iceberq4 does the job really well.

So yeah just my opinion if you're going to spend that much money on a watercooling setup, the triple radiator... lol i'll bet ANY car radiator will beat that thing's performance, well i guess car rads are huge and weighs a crapload. Anyways, if you're going to spend that much money on watercooling setup, might as well save a tiny bit more for a prometeia mach2 ls.

But still that kit's great, you should buy another XP120 with a Silverstone 120mm fan, and a 226watt peltier. Epoxy the peltier on the radiator, I said I don't trust peltiers on components(GPU/CPU) But I trust it on radiators since it'll just make the water cooler. Then use the XP120 to cool the peltier.

He mention car radiator - just so you dont get confuse is the very small radiator under the car dash board used as a heater to warm the car in the winter. My idea would be a peltier helping a Heat sink but not being sandwich between the heat sink and the CPU this way if the peltier fail the heat sink would take up the slack until you replace the peltier without any fear of damage. using peltier with water cooled is a bit less work. "but whole point was to avoid water by using peltier" A good size midtower case is a must or even a full tower.

the only reason i mention a mother board with a cpu on the other side is a "you could using a new case system with large heat sink on the left side. another option would be if the case was wide enough now you would have enough in bewtween wall room . the left side would act like a wind tunnel too cool the cpu and peltier and the right side would look like a regular mother board minus CPU . "here i think im ahead 10 years in design" prob some scumbag might read this and get rich. OF course ideal would be for both CPU and graphic card to be on the left side. and cool the same way . but at the moment i dont think MSI, ASUS ,DFI ETC or ATI and NVIDIA are going to kidnap me. or comply with my wish............MAYBE chaintech LOL.

I live in scottsdale AZ todays temp is +112°f! :hotbounce
My main reason for adding to this post is
there is a company here who used to produce cryonically sealed
server towers (they also freeze ppl) they also have some baseball
players head frozen there :eek: .
I am not sure how or why they did it or why they seemed to stop.
But the idea 5 years ago cost about $300usd to seal it.
I'm pretty sure they we're try'in to reach super conductivity.
They also anealed a cpu (amd 586 133) freezing it down to -250° f
It supposedly ran faster 586 333 or sum thin like that.
Just a thoughtful thought :approve:

112 degree is ok if you case are super flown with at least 3 to 4 120mm fans with a flow of 50 to 80 CFM each. im sure you also use a A.C a good HS like a XP120 AND a 120mm on it . you can built a chiller from a stores that sells used equipment for restaurants like juice chillers they have a very small freon compressor inside.

1000cc
112 degree is ok if you case are super flown with at least 3 to 4 120mm fans with a flow of 50 to 80 CFM each. im sure you also use a A.C a good HS like a XP120 AND a 120mm on it . you can built a chiller from a stores that sells used equipment for restaurants like juice chillers they have a very small freon compressor inside.


Check this thread (http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic24850.html)
You can bet I'm keep'in it chill.
I have considered chiller system but it's out of my realm mentally & $$$'s :haha:

Check this thread (http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic24850.html)
You can bet I'm keep'in it chill.
I have considered chiller system but it's out of my realm mentally & $$$'s :haha: if you can find a aquarium chiller used also you could use it.. this were on ebay new for $289.00

yes that would work with the new fluid systems.
Now you got me think'n,
freon chiller out side to super cool
h20 (w/ dessolved ions)
pumped into pc box through sealed hose to all the heat sinks
would definately work!
I have a very good aquarium center that has surpplus....Hmmmm? ;) :

i would use a half liter to a liter insulated resevoir tank run the chiller way ahead get the water temp down then let it balance it self. should run nice a cold 20 or 15 celcius with ease.

This is south florida it gets in the 90s but very humid of course the A.C can keept it at 72- 75 or 80 most of the time, some days it strugles to keep it at low 80s. right now is 76 degree at 9.40 pm but i can crank the ac to maybe 70 at night.

"I went true the Super Peltier Junction idea, it's a cool "dry" idea and they use it already for CPU cooling I saw.
I just wonder why it hasn't been more commonly known on the market?'

Here's why:
1. Peltiers take up a crapload of Watts. Most PSU's don't have that amount of extra Watts. If you don't give it enough juice, you don't transfer enough heat off the CPU. When this happens, your CPU will fry because the peltier is a very bad conductor of heat, making it worse off. When that happens, you'll do better with the CPU alone without any heatsink/fan. Also, peltiers with not enough wattage will not transfer enough heat across, causing the same problem as mentioned above.

2. Peltiers that do move enough energy across will create a bigger need for a bigger heatsink on the other side. If you don't cool down the hot side fast enough, the cold side will also start heating up. And since peltiers create more heat on the hot side than absorbing heat on the cold side, you 'd probably need something like a water cooling system on the hot side.

3. They cost money, as some other posts have mentioned.

4. You get condensation problems. But that is specifically for high powered peltier systems. Its not that hard to control the peltier, but a normal thermostat will not bode well for your peltier, so you'd need to sink in more money for a proper temperature controller for you peltier (something to do with the way peltiers operate).

5. Peltiers are not very power efficient at the moment. Not much money has been put into improving these peltiers.

But if you can overcome all these problems, I'm sure peltiers will be used more often. In fact, I was just researching these peltiers, I found that someone is coming out with a peltier operated CPU cooler. Full set will cost quite abit, and it addresses most of the problems mentioned. Comes will a complete set of instructions on how to prevent condensation (doesn't use thermostats). Check the link on the other thread I started.