This is quite intresting..

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84

That suits me just fine. If they turn it into a killswitch, with all the legitimate users that will have trouble with it, I'll have a good enough reason to tell people how to disable/bypass it (pending a check on the DCMA to make sure it's legal to do - I certainly have no issues over the ethics of the issue).

Even though My XP is genuine still pisses me off. Might be time to make the switch to Mac or Linux.......

What Do you mean by a kill switch??

This is stupid. If they kill the Xps off then that will force many to buy Windows Vista. I really diagree about everybody having to buy there own individual XP. If I buy something I then own it. I should be able to do anything i want to with it. If i want to share it whats wrong with that?

WGA KillSwitch - A means by which MS will prevent WGA-failed installations from operating unless the issue is "resolved" within a certain timeframe (just like XP product activation and the "30 days to activate"), where the installation of the WGA bloat (because that's really all it is to a genuine user - just a little extra disk space and internet bandwidth used for nothing, and a bit of an invasion of privacy), is mandatory for the installation of further updates.

It hasn't happened yet, but it's possible. The only benefit of WGA is to Microsoft really. You can understand it, but nevertheless it's still a rather draconian measure that's proving problematic for some genuine users. It's also a little hypocritical when you consider just how happy MS has been to actually benefit from piracy in the past, but that's another argument.

This is stupid. If they kill the Xps off then that will force many to buy Windows Vista. I really diagree about everybody having to buy there own individual XP. If I buy something I then own it. I should be able to do anything i want to with it. If i want to share it whats wrong with that?
If MS kill off xp installations in this manner, it will mean that people will have to buy genuine copies of XP at the moment, or maybe Vista at some other time. The trouble is that many genuine copies of XP are falling foul of MSs WGA checks, which is obviously unethical and unfair.

Unfortunately though, when it comes to XP, there really is nothing to argue about in the "everyone having to buy it" debate. That's just the way that commerce operates. MS is no different in that respect. MS actually owns EVERY copy of XP out there. What the consumer buys is a license from MS to use it.

I agree that everybody should have to buy the product. What I disagree with is that it should be one product for one machine. Personally, I feel that it should either be done on a household basis, or it should be licensed for personal use only on a maximum of (lets say for example) three machines.

However, the current (and every) EULA says no, so no it is.

of ok i see now, i just didnt understand what you guys meant.

i get the feeling that MS doenst trust anybody to do anything any more, i mean you think that the biggest name in software would be a little nicer to its customers who pay $100.00 to use their junk.

well i'm buying a new MacBook for college so in a few weeks, im done with MS 4ever i did my own personal test installing OS X Tiger and XP home and OS X truly does have a one click instalation

1. you pick whether you want an "simple" upgrade, or a clean install, thats it it does the rest

XP: it only takes anout 50 questions oh not including a 53pg EULA that tells you what you can and cat do with the software "YOU" purchased

MS has seriously gone downhill

Ahhh, Bill Gates....

He wants more money, by forcing users with little or no money, to pay $100 dlls or more for XP or Vista?

Poor users, they spend more than 500 dlls building a PC, and the have to spend 100dlls or more just to get windows....

I`m lucky I got a super special when I bought XP (50 dlls :) ).

I`m lucky I got a super special when I bought XP (50 dlls :) ).

I got Mine for $34 on ebay
:) :) :) :) :)

One of the reasons MS doesn't trust anyone is because many users feel it's okay to share it once they paid for it. As far as commercialism goes I completely agree with it - it's not a free OS. If you want a free OS go to linux - but don't expect any real support from anyone there except from the linux community. Only problem with that is all the applications most people want to run are on windows - so looks like you'll have to pay for it after all if you really need it. Not sure how people can get upset that someone would want you to pay for their product. With so many people not following those simple rules it's no wonder and was only a matter of time till they took steps to TRY to "force" people to do so.

Well said LNC :D

I got Mine for $34 on ebay
:) :) :) :) :)

Ahh, you`re lucky! Is it used?

XP: it only takes anout 50 questions50 questions?? haha it's more like 5. and they are very simple questions like what time is it, or what is the computer's name.

windowsXP is a fairly painless installation process (especially if you have an SP2 version) it's not a 1 click install, more like a 5-10 click/type... big deal. anybody that has trouble with an XP instal needs to seriously question their own inteligence :D

oh and BTW, your name is going to contradict your recent decision to switch to a mac (your name says that AMD is the best, but you are going to buy an Intel based PC now :confused: hehe ;)

Its the same with Crossfire_851. Instead of two ATI`s on crossfire mode, he has two Nvidias on SLI, if I`m not mistaken :)

haha :D :D :D

oh and BTW, your name is going to contradict your recent decision to switch to a mac (your name says that AMD is the best, but you are going to buy an Intel based PC now :confused: hehe ;)

Yes, I did realize that, maybe one day Apple will Offer AMD CPUs in thier systems to give Mac users a broader choice,

MAD or Intel

hmm?? let me think

Ahh, you`re lucky! Is it used?

Nope, It was an OEM version and the seller had 100% feedback after 1547 customers, and it was a wholesaler store, and ckecked it with Windows Genuine Advantage Tool and it confirmed that it was genuine

What's even more scary about the "kill switch" is that, not only could they kill your PC IF they think you did something wrong. What happens when that system is hacked and somebody has the button to shut down every internet connected XP or Vista PC in the world?
What happens if the update system is hacked and some virus is force fed to millions of PCs overnight through Windows updates?

Seems to me, just like our government has a finger on a button to let loose nukes. MS has a button now to shut every "law abiding" citizens PC down. But of course, the hackers and crackers who are not connected to the system or have gone around it, will be laughing at all us who paid good money for the software that now turned on us.

MS, through auto-updates, just force fed one of their newest WGA crapwares on my PC at work. I happen to be running SP1, so now I have a "star" icon in my system tray that basically takes up 5megs of space and tells me over and over to get SP2. If you kill the process, it pops back up immediately and doesn't go away. They don't give you any options to close it or "don't remind me" or "hide icon". Not even a "remind me later". No they just slap it on there and there's nothing I can do.
Seems MS has learned some tricks from the spyware creators. Because they are using the same tactics to tell everybody what to do. I'll be hacking out their hacks next time I get a chance.

I propose MS remove all WGA from Vista. And if XP is so dang insecure without SP2 and WGA, then they aught to start a massive recall and give everybody copies of Vista for free.
How many parts of your new car have to go bad before you use your warranty? 1 or 2? And yet we live with a swiss cheese OS with problems on every corner and MS solution is to crack down on pirates by implementing things that don't work, and just hurt valid users. And then force us to BUY more stuff from them?
How would you like Ford to say "oh, your breaks were faulty? Well, you'll have to buy $2000 in new equipment to replace it."

Anyway, rant over, MS bugs me. Um, quite literally :)

If Microsoft really does plan to turn WGA into a kill switch in September, be prepared for an enormous backlash.

This is one rumor from one MS tech., What about $9 us an hour?

If WGA had that many prob's wouldn't the post's here @ TS be a lot more in number?
If they do, they do. And if they do, we do, as always.

Theres' alot of world Gov's that use legit copies, at risk from this kill button?
I doubt MS wants to loose the lion's share of that market.

Its the same with Crossfire_851. Instead of two ATI`s on crossfire mode, he has two Nvidias on SLI, if I`m not mistaken :)


LMFAO, hey I got a good deal on my board. SLi is better technogly also. Crossfire (CrossFire851) just sounds better then SLi.

Theres' alot of world Gov's that use legit copies, at risk from this kill button?


Yes, if MS is really serious about this, they could eventually shut down the whole planet. considering that 95% of the worlds computers run Windows then they could create serious problems. For example, lets say they issue a Kill-Switch for the computers that control the satellites for Nuclear Weapons on the ground. Then we're all going to be in real trouble.

LMFAO, hey I got a good deal on my board. SLi is better technogly also. Crossfire (CrossFire851) just sounds better then SLi.

Yes, CrossFire851 is better than SLI851 :)

the probability of WGA becoming a kill switch are less than 0.00001.

the intent is to disable updates for unlicensed users,
which (ignoring the politics and implementation issues) is a good thing imo.

Why? The industry needs to slam the door on unethical users who p i r a t e
software and then complain about services. The vendor has responsibility
ONLY to those with a valid license.

btw: I've never worked for MS (nor would I) and actually distain most of their
products.

Yes, I realize the intent, but like others have mentioned, what happens when a hacker gets a hold of the code it uses and then uses that to exploit the core operaating system. They could shut down hundreds of thousands maybe even millions of windows PCs through automatic updates, which almost every winXP has set to update automatically. according to MS windows XP is installed on 500 million computers. so if a hacker could compromise those PCs (which they eventually will find a way ) thats 500,000,000 PCs wiped out. As i said b4, what if those computer are linked to Nuclear Weapons, or Aircraft GPS system, you could have a 747 trying to touch down in LA or something and kill alot of people.

Thats the scary thing about the WGA

what if those computer are linked to Nuclear Weapons, or Aircraft GPS system, you could have a 747 trying to touch down in LA or something and kill alot of people.Doubt much of those would be linked directly.. maybe the personell who works there or something.. they'd probably use their own OS's or maybe a linux box :D

Sad to say however, i think in one of the jokes threads here (cant remember which one), someone posted a pic of a monitor in an airport terminal that should be displaying the timetable for airplanes departing/arriveing etc.. instead it was your run of the mill BSOD...... :knock:

Microsoft can't turn off legal copys, the lawsuit could cost too much for even them, but those in violation of the EULA have no legal grounds. So they just stop the freeloaders, maybe send them over to Linux. Who wants to make software for a bunch of crooks anyway?

but there is still the possibilyi for problems

Yes. It happened to me. I had a rather unstable overclock and got the pop-ups. I tried to reactivate but got the message that my copy was already activated. There was a option to buy another Xp home for $99 (half price if it's a retail version.) I restarted, fixed my overclock, and have not seen it since. They have already updated WGA once that I know of.

The biggest deal is that they seem to want to dissable all computers without WGA installed. To do that they must have some other thing to do it.

As i said b4, what if those computer are linked to Nuclear Weapons, or Aircraft GPS system, you could have a 747 trying to touch down in LA or something and kill alot of people.
Not ONE MS PC is driving anything you mention above. MS itself would not
certify their systems for such applications. Even Sun Micro Systems will not
certify JAVA for these applications.

Systems with weapons OR life support responsibility are not purchase over the counter -- they are written from scratch.

These tactics hurt regular users just the same.
I've had plenty of PCs come in the store because somehow they did not activate and were shut out with no internet access.

Even my own PC, all I did was some general maintenance and update my drivers etc... and then it pops up saying my hardware has changed and I have to activate again?!

A time will come when Windows will probably use some type of hardware key, rather then huge annoying software hoops. Just stick the little key/plug in a USB port and then XP will work. One plug, for one copy of Windows. No problems.

This would even be bound to fail because it wouldn't work for multi-license schemes, they would still require a "corporate" type of install. And that's what the theives use anyway. But regardless, home users could get a hardware key for retail-purchased versions.
Then they would never have any problems. For multiple-license clients, well, let them deal with gargantuan software hoops. I'd rather have a hardware key and unrestricted software then software with all this "genuine DISadvantage" crapola.

Well Put Vigilante

Not ONE MS PC is driving anything you mention above. MS itself would not
certify their systems for such applications. Even Sun Micro Systems will not
certify JAVA for these applications.

Systems with weapons OR life support responsibility are not purchase over the counter -- they are written from scratch.


Nor will Intel CPUs.

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2159537/class-action-lawsuit-challenges

MS are now being sued over WGA. About time too. The first of many I hope.

Microsoft denies WGA kill switch in Windows XP (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=software&articleId=9001559&taxonomyId=18)

Well its about time something got done about this rediculous WGA thing

What's even more scary about the "kill switch" is that, not only could they kill your PC IF they think you did something wrong. What happens when that system is hacked and somebody has the button to shut down every internet connected XP or Vista PC in the world?
What happens if the update system is hacked and some virus is force fed to millions of PCs overnight through Windows updates?

Seems to me, just like our government has a finger on a button to let loose nukes. MS has a button now to shut every "law abiding" citizens PC down. But of course, the hackers and crackers who are not connected to the system or have gone around it, will be laughing at all us who paid good money for the software that now turned on us.

MS, through auto-updates, just force fed one of their newest WGA crapwares on my PC at work. I happen to be running SP1, so now I have a "star" icon in my system tray that basically takes up 5megs of space and tells me over and over to get SP2. If you kill the process, it pops back up immediately and doesn't go away. They don't give you any options to close it or "don't remind me" or "hide icon". Not even a "remind me later". No they just slap it on there and there's nothing I can do.
Seems MS has learned some tricks from the spyware creators. Because they are using the same tactics to tell everybody what to do. I'll be hacking out their hacks next time I get a chance.

I propose MS remove all WGA from Vista. And if XP is so dang insecure without SP2 and WGA, then they aught to start a massive recall and give everybody copies of Vista for free.
How many parts of your new car have to go bad before you use your warranty? 1 or 2? And yet we live with a swiss cheese OS with problems on every corner and MS solution is to crack down on pirates by implementing things that don't work, and just hurt valid users. And then force us to BUY more stuff from them?
How would you like Ford to say "oh, your breaks were faulty? Well, you'll have to buy $2000 in new equipment to replace it."

Anyway, rant over, MS bugs me. Um, quite literally :)
Sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theory to me. I wouldn't worry about that too much. there's more important things to worry about like asteroids hitting the earth or getting abducted by aliens! haha

Sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theory to me

Not at all. There have already been reports of genuine users who MS have told to buy a new copy of XP because they've failed validation - possibly old OEM customers perhaps.

Not at all. There have already been reports of genuine users who MS have told to buy a new copy of XP because they've failed validation - possibly old OEM customers perhaps.

That's completely true... and I'll be honest, I agree with those who have said that it's not Microsoft I'm worried about, it's what malicious hackers do with the huge security hole created by the WGA. Microsoft "genuine advantage police" would need to certify themselves as genuine before they did anything to your PC... but I wonder how willing they'd be to live by the kind of rules they're forcing on the rest of us.

Truth be told, usually I don't mind Microsoft, but I'm a bit disappointed they seem to be ignoring common sense on this one.

Sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theory to me. I wouldn't worry about that too much. there's more important things to worry about like asteroids hitting the earth or getting abducted by aliens! hahaWell said tedster, this is indeed becoming a "paranoid conspiracy theory". maybe some people have been watching too many sci-fi future "corporate controlled everything" where big brother sees, smells, and knows every single thing we do and think. but this is not reality, and i don't think it will be either (at least not in any of our lifetimes).

I do not like the idea of microsoft (or any 3rd party for that matter) to have the ability to control PC's remotely. however I also am not worried about it going further than the targeted pirates.

as far as it shutting down government systems?? i highly doubt that would happen via M$ WGA. the secretary's computers may run windows, but mission critical systems do not depends on such a flawwed operating system as windows.

Nor will Intel CPUs.huh?? :confused: where did that come from? LOL :D

Errrm, I think some people may have their wires crossed! "WGA killswitch" doesn't mean that MS can remotely control machines. It just means that they make the WGA update mandatory, and make it require action within 30 days if it fails (just like windows product activation does).

Well said tedster, this is indeed becoming a "paranoid conspiracy theory". maybe some people have been watching too many sci-fi future "corporate controlled everything" where big brother sees, smells, and knows every single thing we do and think. but this is not reality, and i don't think it will be either (at least not in any of our lifetimes).

I do not like the idea of microsoft (or any 3rd party for that matter) to have the ability to control PC's remotely. however I also am not worried about it going further than the targeted pirates.

as far as it shutting down government systems?? i highly doubt that would happen via M$ WGA. the secretary's computers may run windows, but mission critical systems do not depends on such a flawwed operating system as windows.

huh?? :confused: where did that come from? LOL :D
now if I was in Communist China...... then I'd worry.....

It doesn't have to be a "paranoid conspiracy", because it already happens.

They DO know what you do. Maybe they don't know what you smell :) But tracing your spending habbits may let them know what you think about. Sure nobody may be watching you personally, but don't think there isn't massive amounts of data being collected about everything people do, buy, watch, listen to, browse to, talk to, etc...
Given a reason, a detective, FBI, whatever, could dig up dirt on you from preschool days. lol. Right down to the day you visited the nurse because of a scrape on your knee.

It's more scary how careless companies are at protecting our personal data. Hense increase in identity theft and stolen credit card numbers. Not to mention the profit made from collecting data and then selling it around to the highest bidder.

Frankly I'm not so worried about big brother watching, because I'm not doing anything illegal. I'm more upset that these companies only treat us as sacks of money to fatten their already-fatted wallets. We are consumers, we are monitored, watched, recorded. They trace us to find out what we like, they put our actions en masse into software to crunch the numbers and create systems which make them the most money. In other words, I'm tired of being a living statistic.

Does anybody have that feeling sometimes? We get a pay check from the corps so we can turn around and give it back to them in order to live? All the while they analyze us to better our consumerness. Like mice in a glass tank, running our "rat race" for them to watch and record.

Granted, I'm not given to conspiracies, and I don't spend a minute out of my day thinking or worrying about this stuff. But I do believe it IS happening, to a degree. Billions of terrabytes of data isn't being collected about the public for no reason. It's being put to use in some way. And people are profiting off it.

After all, they say the greatest trick the devil ever played is convincing the world he doesn't exist.
Why would "they", the big corps and data miners, admit to foul play or abuse of our personal habits?
Why did suddenly most grocery stores require membership? Absolutely NO reason at all. What's wrong with a person grabing some goods, then pay for it? No, we now need club cards for extra "benefits". Meaning they raise prices and then lower them again for members only. Data mining anyone?

So anyways, I don't want to sound like a nutcase, like I said, I never think about such things, but I know they are happening. To a degree.

it's what malicious hackers do with the huge security hole created by the WGA.



Bingo. My main worry about this as well. If not for me, rather, the large amount of users who wouldnt know if it was genuine MS or not. Think about all of the people who get trapped into phishing scams?

Yes, if MS is really serious about this, they could eventually shut down the whole planet. considering that 95% of the worlds computers run Windows then they could create serious problems. For example, lets say they issue a Kill-Switch for the computers that control the satellites for Nuclear Weapons on the ground. Then we're all going to be in real trouble.

Not realy most computers that control satalites and nuclear wepions use verry utilitarian versions of UNIX (some dateing from the 1960's)and are on isolated grids specifically built for defense purposes and not connected in any way to comercial networks or the internet.

I am convinced, that the day, may one day come, when:

1. out sourced imports pc parts, :knock:
2. meglamaniac OS developers, :angel:
3. rediculous retailers, :grinthumb

will push the red button and everything everywhere will shut down & not reboot :dead:


p.s.: I can see them comming! They think,...... I think,......they're a figment of my imagination. But they aint foolin me, they're right there and they're wearing speedo's!

This is stupid. If they kill the Xps off then that will force many to buy Windows Vista. I really diagree about everybody having to buy there own individual XP. If I buy something I then own it. I should be able to do anything i want to with it. If i want to share it whats wrong with that?

They will do the same with Vista. Maybe they should put more money into fixing existing problems on the OS than pouring money into stopping Piracy.

Hey, guys, I got an Idea! Why don't we all go out and get Windows XP Proffessional? It's only, like, 300$. I mean, we're all rich, like Bill Gates, right? And who cares if it fails WGA. Oh well! We can always afford to buy another "genuine copy". Drumroll please.......I DON'T THINK SO! Isn't Microsoft like a monopoly? I thought the government outlawed those a long time ago...

Nah microsoft isnt, cause MAC OS's and Linux (free) are big too. But I cant even think of any more to choose from, so i guess lack of variety leads to their success.