The day will come...

I wonder what the world will be like when the question: are we alone in the universe?, is finally answered. For sure, it will be a day to remember and it will be great. I'm praying that it will happen in my lifetime. Even if it doesn't, if I had a million dollars, I would willingly offer myself to NASA to be the first person to go to Mars knowing full well that I might not even survive it. Just the idea of being on an alien planet is more rewarding to me than any sum of money in the world.

I'm very fascinated with astronomy and the fact that the universe is so expansive and yet we can't travel it makes me wonder if it's even possible at all with the limited resources that we posses. Is it even worth trying? Perhaps, it was meant for aliens to visit us and they will give us the resources to travel the universe.

Physics offers solutions as to how we can break the speed of light by travelling through worm holes, bending space and time, or crossing to parallel universe by merely changing the frequencies of ours. These all seem logical and doable but even physicists admit there isn't enough energies on earth that can produce these kinds of phenomenas.

The day will come when our mundane lives will all of a sudden seem pointless. People would stop going to their jobs (I know I would) as alien spaceships hover above the skies just like the movie: Indepence Day.

Every day and night I look up at the sky, just by chance I may see the first spaceship.

I don't know. After your last post, http://www.3dspotlight.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=948 , I'd have some reservation about even meeting you in a public place. :eek:

Someone is trying to win the contest.

(Coughs)

Or does he normally post these weird topics all the time?

Originally posted by XYZ359
Someone is trying to win the contest.

(Coughs)

Or does he normally post these weird topics all the time?

No he is new and quite....uhh.....odd, to say the least. ;)

Ahhhh, ok.
Just checking.

:grinthumb

Present day technology is so lame. One of these days im gonna build a time-machine, goto the future and live on a starship :) Living on Mars would be so cool.

...Dont mind me, i'm quite crazy :P

You need help, my man.

Perhaps you're content with your life and die so without even knowing what else if anything is out there. Not me.

I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

I said you needed help. You do. I am not necessarily disagreeing with what you are saying.....

every post i have read from erwin is a little weird and makes me think either he is just completely off the wall or he is trying to win the contest.... this is just my input though

Originally posted by cabrone
every post i have read from erwin is a little weird and makes me think either he is just completely off the wall or he is trying to win the contest.... this is just my input though

That's what I thought when I read the post.
But, boeingfixer told me he was off the wall and does this.
I really don't know.

(I really think he is trying to win the contest. He thinks "quality" is the length of the post and if it makes sense. But, remember, going to Mars has nothing to do with current gaming and hardware discussion.)

Farewell.

:grinthumb

Originally posted by cabrone
every post i have read from erwin is a little weird and makes me think either he is just completely off the wall or he is trying to win the contest.... this is just my input though

And whats wrong with either? Or both.... ;)
Personally I don't imagine mars being a very exciting place to visit. Maybe viewing it from space would be nice rather than just seeing previous images and footage of it. But its just looks like a desert. I'd rather go somewhere with indigenous life... (or at least a pub or two :D )

Just an example of diversity in an international, public forum. I don't mind reading about space travelling, PC hardware & software, Ms. Spears' acting, what kind of music people listen to, how to overclock a PDA &c.

i think you guys're being a bit too hard on the guy. i don't see anything wrong in his post. and it's not violaing the TOS or anything, is he? though this thread may be wierd, but a wierd thread could lead to some interesting discussions...
from the old forums:
if i had a time machine... (http://207.115.70.83/forum/read_msg.php?tid=584&forumid=ubb5)
One OS to rule them all (http://207.115.70.83/forum/read_msg.php?tid=784&forumid=ubb5)

if only people would imagine along with him and see what it'll lead you to (like ScarletHippo and Arris)...
or maybe it's because we're in the middle of a contest, everyone's so designated (did i use the right word? :p ) to make quality posts...

Like I said, I don't have anything against posts like these. Actually, I want to get out of this planet. Well, out of this country, for a start.

Originally posted by Mictlantecuhtli
Like I said, I don't have anything against posts like these. Actually, I want to get out of this planet. Well, out of this country, for a start.
uh.. i think we started typing those posts at the same time, but you finished and posted first :)

anyway, i do think there's some kind of life form out there (whether it be intelligent or not).
i always hear scientists reports stating things like "there's no water and oxygen there. so there can't possibly be any life forms". duh! i mean, so what! we're talking about "aliens" here. they're not human! they don't have to have eyes, a mouth or a nose. it could even be a 10 ft tall amoeba with no nucleus that absorbs (eats) dirt through its skin and breaths corbondioxide... or maybe carbonmonoxide! :D
but hey, they are scientists, men of science... they need evidence in everything :p
anyway, i wouldn't want to live on a spaceship that much. it sounds too bizzarre for me. eating food tablets? NEVER! i like walking around on good ol' earth. just the fact that later on, we might be studying through cameras and the internet freaks me out. i don't really think the students'll get the same old feeling as sitting around in the classroom full of friends... oh, and a teacher ;)

Originally posted by Phantasm66:
You will be assimilated! Resistence is futile!
http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/st-tng/episodes/images/223-3.jpg

:haha:

Seems like a perfectly valid question to me.

We may find in the near future that Mars played a much larger role in our collective past than we have been indoctrinated to believe. The quest for information and travel beyond what is current accepted as 'normal' has typically resulted in an acerbic response from those who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

Our future as a species may very well hinge in transferring a portion of our population to other viable locations.

Any atheist in the house? What do you think about the beginning of the universe and how it all started? I think any atheist can be converted if they ponder the question: how did the universe started.

I was raised a Catholic and after Highschool I decided not to strictly follow a certain religion. I believe there is a god but not necessarily the god that the world's different religions preaches. I think it's a safe bet to believe in a unnamed god, at the same time not alienate any god. Who's to say which religion is the true religion of the ultimate god.

Perhaps the universe is beyond our human intelligence and comprehension but it's hard to imagine a universe without a beginning, a creator. If you're familiar with the idea of the BIG Bang you have to ask yourself who/what started it, and if there is a god, who created this god; did he/she had a superior and so on. The concept that space was completely empty and the big bang simply occured at a single point and started a revolution is unacceptable to me.

Originally posted by erwin1978
Any atheist in the house? What do you think about the beginning of the universe and how it all started? I think any atheist can be converted if they ponder the question: how did the universe started.

I am an atheist and I have my own particular ideas about how the universe was created.......

Originally posted by erwin1978
Any atheist in the house?
Indeed I am an atheist also.

I'm in 8th grade about to move into 9th and it is torture for me.
I'm not going to get into it all.

Also, I have alot of logical sense on how "God" was created and such.
What happened during the times, who wrote the bible, etc. (I'm not saying I know it all, just what I think)
I might write a document about that but I just don't have the time.

I will go to Mars with you.....




Let's rock and roll....





like to dream
Yes, yes right between the sound machine
On a cloud of sight I drift in the night
Any place it goes is right
Goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here

Well, you don't know what we could find
Why don't you come with me little girl on a magic carpet ride?
Well you don't know what we could see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me?, fantasy will set you free.

Last night I held Aladdin's lamp, so I wished that I could stay.
Before the thing could answer me well someone took, the lamp away
I looked around a lousy candle was all I found.

Close your eyes girl, look inside girl, let the Sound take you away.




Fair dos, even Thomas Edison was a drunk and an idiot.... as am I.

I forgive you....

Originally posted by erwin1978
What do you think about the beginning of the universe and how it all started?
I have made the headings in bold, and the headings with times in them red

Originally posted by SNGX1275 in the OLD FORUM
History of Universe:
1. Initially-Minkowski Space -pre big bang
Mass = 0
Temp = 0k
Volume = 0 *Laws of Physics do not apply*
2. Big Bang - Universe Created
-First appearence of Expanding Energy -something higher energy than plasma
3.1 Second into Existance
- 1st appearence of mass
- Exponential Expansion Phase
- Broken Symmetry (slight variations in texture)
- Hotter and "cooler" regions begin to form
- 1st Heterogeneties
4. Partical Creation Phase
- 1st particles - antiparticles created
- Expanding Sphere continues
5. Partical Production Ceases - subatomic particles
- Particles and antiparticles mutually anialate each other
- Attraction due to electormagnetic properties
6. 14 seconds after Big Bang
- Subatomic particles begin to organize into protons & neutrons
- Then organize into the nuclei of H and He
- 80% Hydrogen 20% Helium
- Temperature = 3 Billion K
- H & He concentrated in Hotter Regions
7. Time = 300,000 Years
- Temperature 3000K
- Temperature is cool enough for electorns to attract to H and He nucleui - atoms formed
- "Proto"star formation in hot dense regions
8. Time 1 Billion years
- Accumulation of enough H-He to allow 1st stars to ignite
- Proto galaxies begin to form - corresponding vacuum of space

Thats the history of the universe for you. Kind of placed it in this post for fun. I'm bored and been drinking a bit yet its too early to go out just yet.

In case you are interested into where formation of earth comes into play I'll help you out. All you high school students take note maybe you can use this in one of the science classes you take

Estimates range for universe age most being between 13-20 billion years. Based on the "Red Shift" (Hubble I think discovered this). And by Cephid Stars (they pulse at a high rate and somehow they determine this I could explain the best I can but it would take too much time).

Our Solar system can be very precisely be estimated to be 4.6 billion years old. Oldest dated earth rock - 4.2 Billion. Now time for earth history:
1. At least 1 supernova explosion before matter in Earth can be formed (remember H and He were the only elements that existed at formation of universe... We have more than H and He right?)
2. Planetesimals form in our solar system (masses of matter)
3. Heavy elements settle to inside of planets (now I'm just goign to do earth now).
4. After 100,000 years our sun enters a T-Tauri stage where it expels 25% of its mass in a proton/electron plasma.
5. This explosion blows a good portion of the gases from the inner planets out to the gaseous planets.
6. Fairly long planetary accretion process of how elemental seggregation happened (that I will not get into-Smith and Ringwood models if you care to look them up)
7. Then sometime in accretion process when earth is still molten a big meteor hits it and displaces some of the matter, making up the moon. Trust me this is a logical model - I could provide you with elemental percentages of matter in earth and moon and compare it to smith and ringwood models and it would make sense.

Well I think this is my longest post ever by about 4 fold. Hopefully the people that cared enough to read this learned some. I find it pretty interesting.

If you are curious as to how I know this stuff, well I learned it from about the 3rd and 4th lectures in Geochemistry at my school. (I'm a geology major).


Note: I'm not trying to do anything religious/antireligious here. Just posting an explanation that makes a bit of sense to me.

Maybe if I look through my notes some I can post how all the elements that the Earth has were formed. If you read my last post you will notice that I only accounted for hydrogen and helium. We all know there are more elements than that now.

oh no... astrology... yeah, it's interesting alright, but i just have the feeling it's so far off that we can't possibly learn of the truth yet... not even in my life time... it's like people are making things up with theories and calculations (no offence, anyone)...
somewhere out there... sometime in the past... there was this...
AAAAHHH!!!

Originally posted by Ai Hate
oh no... astrology...
I wasn't really trying to convince people anything - and I sure didn't mean it as an astrology lesson, I didn't learn it in an astrology class. I might post back with just a little more information on formation of elements. I'd like to just cause I find the subject interesting - many may not espically if everyone here only focuses their life on computers. Many times I feel as an outsider here because I feel like I'm the only one here that doesn't have or want a career based on computers. I guess if everyone here would see it as a wasted post I won't do it. But generally anythign not computer related I kind of like reading on here. Sometimes computers do get boring you know.... maybe you don't

well, i think you're getting me a bit wrong here. i read your posts, and if you posted about those notes you mentioned, i'd read it too. i'm not trying to say "BAH! Take ur geology stuff somewhere else!".. please don't get me wrong..
i have to agree, none computer stuff is quite fun to read too. that's why we have a Gen. Disc (now meeting spot) forum.
and actually you're not the only one who doesn't want to have a computer career. if i remember, Boby too, didn't want to have a computer career. And Phantasm66 always says "Get out and find some girls!!" :D
why did you think that "if i had a time machine" thread went so long... physics, time, space...muwahaha...

Originally posted by Ai Hate
well, i think you're getting me a bit wrong here. i read your posts, and if you posted about those notes you mentioned, i'd read it too. i'm not trying to say "BAH! Take ur geology stuff somewhere else!".. please don't get me wrong..
Good. I was a bit suprised when I read your posts to be honest. Guess I did take it the wrong way - for that I apologise.
Tomarrow sometime - provided I do find those notes - I will post on that. While I don't expect people to believe everything that I have/will post in this thread, I do hope that you don't not read it and disagree just because of "fill in whatever reason here".

Einstein's comment, "God does not play dice," became notorious. The phrase uses the present tense, not the past. This suggests that Einstein was probably not referring to the fact that a creator God would not in the beginning have created a universe in which chance reigned supreme. Rather he may have meant that as God or reason incarnate, the universe could not be governed by chance alone.
http://www.2think.org/einstein.shtml

In the beginning, there was nothing, and then it exploded
:haha:

How can "nothing" explode??? There must have been something to explode.....

Ka-Boom (http://members.dencity.com/marvmartian/sound.html)

How It All Started (http://www.ping.be/~pin12042/sons/2000star.wav)

Originally posted by Mictlantecuhtli
In the beginning, there was nothing, and then it exploded
:haha:
We had a hard time grasping that concept in class too. Doesn't make much sense thats why there was that "Laws of physics do not apply" thing. Basically there is no explanation and scientists made something up to explain it.

I think that's where a higher power comes in. Us humans think too linear. The universe is beyond our understanding.

Here's an interesting small article. (http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/showtell/story/0,24330,3379876,00.html) If you've seen TheScreenSavers show, then you'd be familiar with Physicist Michio Kaku.

The last paragraph in the article probably sums up my entire insight of the future.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SNGX1275
Here you go guys: (for those interested)
Well its hard to write atomic weight and atomic mass without doing it in a math program. So here is what I'm going to do. if I right 1:1H that means 1 proton and 1 neutron. 13:7C means 7 protons 6 neutrons.

So 1st we started with hydrogen and helium like I said in that previous post but here is how helium forms:
*1:1H + 1:1H +1:1H +1:1H ----> 4:2He
*This process is called electron capture. It converts a proton to a neutron when it captures the electron.
*He production results in densification of core of stars which leads to a temperature increase.
*At about 100Million degrees Kelvin He fusion occurs:
4:2He + 4:2He + 4:2He ----> 12:6C with Intermediate Li, B, Be
*Carbon atoms form a catylist for further reactions
*CNO cycle (carbon nitrogen oxygen)
* 12:6C + 1:1H ----> 13:7N + gamma
* 13:7N ----> 13:6C + a Beta particle (positron)
* 13:6C + 1:1H ----> 14:7N + gamma
* 14:7N + 1:1H ----> 15:8O + gamma
* 15:8O ----> 15:7N + Beta
* 15:7N + 1:1H ----> 12:6C + 4:2He which is the catylist for the CNO cycle - its recycled. the 4:2He is an alpha particle when stripped of electrons.
* Alpha Particle Fusion
* 12:6C + 4:2He ----> 16:8O
* 16:8O + 4:2He ----> 20:10Ne
* 20:10Ne + 4:2He ----> 24:12Mg
* there are 9 more steps to this which continue all the way up through formation of 56:28Ni, that is the last of alpha particle fusion. I don't think I need to continue the pattern as it should seem obvious after 3 examples. (the nickel formed is radioactive, it decays to a stable Iron)
*NOW 1 OF 2 THINGS CAN HAPPEN
1. Reaction continues until all of the He is used up, then the star fizzles out and forms a "White Dwarf" which has a cool dark Iron Core and the other elements that formed (smaller than Fe). Note: Our sun will take this path.
2. This is the cool one
Neutron Capture occurs in Red Giant Stars
* 62:28Ni + 1:0n ----> 63:28Ni + gamma Note: I must have temporarly fallen asleep during this class because I don't have in my notes how we got from that alpha fusion to 62:28Ni....
* 63:28Ni + 1:0n ----> 63:29Cu
* This is the process that formed all further elements

Now you might be subconsiously wondering why we have heavier elements than Iron on Earth, espically since our Sun is taking the wrong path. Well it simply means that our solar system is a result of at least 1 supernova explosion (red giants can do the whole supernova thing).

While I'm rambling on (you guys don't have to read the rest) I'll include some observations about elements in our Solar System.
1. As atomic # increases abundance generally decreases.
2. Oddo-Harkins Rule:
- Elements with even atomic #s are more stable than odd.
- Number of neutrons also has an effect on nuclear stability:
Proton Neutrons Mass # Of Stable Isotopes
Even Even Even 168
Even Odd Odd 57
Odd Even Odd 50
Odd Odd Even 4 (Li, Be)



It appears that the spacing isn't work right for that table, you'll just have to imagine they line up :).

Originally posted by erwin1978
Here's an interesting small article. (http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/showtell/story/0,24330,3379876,00.html) If you've seen TheScreenSavers show, then you'd be familiar with Physicist Michio Kaku.

The last paragraph in the article probably sums up my entire insight of the future.

What a great article you posted Erwin! I really enjoyed reading that!

I have read about a lot of these things before, as well as watching many documentaries, but that writer is very clear and concise and provides imagery that clearly conveys the complex subject matter. I liked it a lot. :)

Originally posted by Ai Hate
oh no... astrology...

I think it is more of Astronomy.. Not astrology, right? Astrology is more like Terot reading and stuff. hehe.

I won't totally discount the big bang, but creating matter and energy from empty space that doesn't exist simply isn't logical. Is one of our most simple phsyics laws, "Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed"?

I realize this is more on the quantum, theoretical level, but I will never accept the big bang theory as feasible unless someone can show me how to create nothing from something.

At the same time, I'm not religious. I'm a well-defined agnostic I believe. So, while I won't totally discount it, God is not an answer in my opinion either.

Personally, I have just kind of accepted there was no beginning. It could have always been here, but we as humans simply don't have the capacity to grasp something without a birth and death.

Originally posted by Rick
I won't totally discount the big bang, but creating matter and energy from empty space that doesn't exist simply isn't logical. Is one of our most simple phsyics laws, "Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed"?
Yeh you are right its not logical, I think thats why the scientists that came up with that history of the universe said "Laws of physics do not apply" as sort of a thing to "explain" the unexplainable.
I will have to agree that we just don't have the ability to think that something doesn't have to have a beginning. Sounds wierd at first but think - not living things have the same emotions as humans. Just think of it as something we just dont' have the ability to understand.

Here is my theory on the creation of everything:

At some point, Engery became Matter. Possably energy from some other dimension that became so powerful that it began to manifest itself in the form of matter in our dimension.

As for the Big Bang, I beleive that there have been several. Because of Gravity, all the matter in the universe will eventually come together. It will compress and explode like the big bang. Gravity will then eventually suck it all in again and the process will start again.

Obviously the planets are so far apart that it will take billions upon billions upon billions of years for this to happen.

BTW, erwin1978, nice article.

Originally posted by SNGX1275

Yeh you are right its not logical, I think thats why the scientists that came up with that history of the universe said "Laws of physics do not apply" as sort of a thing to "explain" the unexplainable.

Essentially we are talking about a kind of "chaotic" space, where laws like this might apply:

*The speed of light is either faster or slower than it is now.

*The speed of light can change in value.

*It is possible to travel faster than the speed of light.

Its thought that this kind of state existed, or something similar, in the first few moments of the universe's existence. The normal rules of physics did not apply, and what is currently impossible was possible and vice versa.

I'm just going to throw in a little thought and come back later to give my full explaination.

I believe their are many universes each created by the singularity of a black hole suddently tearing into spacetime and then exploding, therefore creating a new dimension, as we have labeled it. After all there is a finite mass in the universe and the singularity of a black hole is incredibly dense and heavy with a massive amount of mass. Since all the mass in so compacted the temperature in the singularity (by our laws) must be unbelievably hot, hence the explosion and immediate cooling. I also think that all the mass in the singularity is broken down into the most basic elements such as hydrogen and helium (don't ask me why, its just my theory). And since there are possibly millions and millions of black holes, I believe there are millions and millions of other universes. This is just a short little briefing of an arguement that would take days to explain. I know it might sound crazy, but with what little knowledge we know there is no telling what is possible and what is not possible.

Just my 2 cents.

I remember reading about that the universe is in a continuos cycle of expanding, collapsing and expanding again. One cycle takes some time, though. Was it billions of years.. *searches for that newspaper*

According to my Astronomy1 class, our sun:cool: goes through that same cycle. Originally, it was just a collection of gas and gradually pulled more gasses from the surrounding area into its core. Eventually, it became a gigantic ball of gas. As its mass got bigger it's gravity pull increased, pulling more gasses into it. Soon the gasses were so compact in the core and the increase in temperature ignited the gas ball and the sun was born.

In a few billion years, as the gasses are burnt up, the mass of the sun will obviously decrease and so does its gravity pull. With less gravity holding the gasses together, the sun will expand. The surface gasses will just spread out.

I forgot what happens next and how the cycle begins from the start. :mad:

Here is my radical, no physical proof-ish theory as to how the universe began:
There are a lot more dimensions in existance, many more than the four with which we humans are currently acquainted (sp?). They warp or double back on each other....

This works if one views time as a dimension, as something that ceases to exist when all motion ceases to exist.

There could be loads of things out there, stuff which we humans, w/ our puny five senses, are completely unaware exists.

I have a hard time beleiving in theology because usually magic turns out to be scientific phenomena that had no logical explanation at the time. Also, this whole faith thing (beleiving and basing your life around something w/o absolute proof) really irks me. If I have to go out of my way to worship this, um, thing that is god/ God, that gosh darn it I think god/ God ought to come down and make these wishes painstakingly clear to me personally. The bible was written by humans, so it does not count in this particular respect.
Actually, I sort of think that God has some sort of self esteem issue, what w/ all of this worship nonsense. Who is God to devote 1/7th of my life to worhiping God? Creating something does not grant you complete control over it, and if I had known that my purpose was to act as God's play toy, I would not have bothered, geeze.

Sorry I am very tired

I want to go to Mars by myself if it's feasible.