Hi Chaps,

I'd appreciate it if you could please answer the following :-

1). Does 1333MHz RAM generate more heat than 1067MHz RAM ?

2). Is the 2.93GHz Core i7 worth the extra £278.26 (Ex VAT) and all the extra heat that it generates ?

3). Did we establish whether this PC has two different motherboards, according to the specification chosen ? If so, do they both have 6 RAM slots ?

I talked to a sales lady from Dell and she said there was. However, giving the amount of wrong information she was stating on how the memory configurations worked, I don't know if I would trust her. The best thing to do is call or chat with Dell and hope you get someone more knowledgeable than I got.

Those fans were the lowest noise rating fans that have a minimum flow of 40cfm at newegg. I did read some of the reviews and I guess I took them with a grain of salt and went by the stated rating. From the sound of what you are saying, the real noise issue is the cpu fan. I figured if I had the 2 case fans at a higher flow rate in there it would help keep the cpu fan from going into 'leaf-blower' mode as much. Worse comes to worse with these fans, I'm only out $15.

I like Poke's idea about upgrading the mtb and case after a while.

I seriously doubt there are two separate motherboards here. There is only one 435MT manual online and linked with this computer in download and that sole manual's depiction of said motherboard is copied in full on the preceding page. This layout mimics mine. I dont see any mention of two motherboards anywhere, nor have I seen a separate board pictured, mentioned, debated in any forum (besides here, now), review, or e-zine. That's not a 100% positive but you'll have a hard time finding someone at dell that knows for certain.

Not sure how much more heat the 1333MHz DDR3 ram would bring. I wouldnt think it a huge issue and the manual states that it can safely run 1333MHz ram. Of course, the Dell bios is not a very feature-rich beast in the least. You have no control over the performance you get with most aftermarket, non OEM boards. Who can blame them for not wanting to deal with the customer headache involved for the headscratcher users that would be plowing them with even more calls/mails.

On the fan issue, the real noise issue IS the CPU fan but the stock case fan is also annoying, and unlike the CPU fan, running at all times so the drone can wear. If the substitute fan is no quieter, there's no reason to bother as the Dell stock fan is rated to move more air than most.

Lastly, the best deal in performance and price is the i7 920 by far. Reason is this processor is the most overclockable. I dont think either of the other two are worth the ducats right now. Moved into another board, and that processor will hit over 4GHz, higher than the $1000 stock 965.

Thanks for that Abstrait.

One other thing I don't understand.

If you select the 8GB RAM option and leave the graphics card unchanged (i.e. "256MB ATI® Radeon™ HD 3650 graphics card", the page displays an incompatibility warning message.

3, 4 and 6 GB RAM options are all fine and it's only the 8GB option that is apparently not compatible with the 256MB ATI® Radeon graphics card.

Not that anyone would now choose the 8GB option (by the way, the Dell UK website has now been corrected).

Actually it not a bad idea as long as you know you need to buy a second 2gb chip to go to 9gb.

Dell charges $100 to upgrade from 6gb to 8gb and $300 to go from 6gb to 12 gb. Logic would say they would charge $150 from 6gb to 9 gb, if they had their heads on straight. From Dell the additional 2gb module is $67. So doing it that way, it is costing you $167 to go from 6gb to 9gb.

If you go 6gb, then you have to replace all of the modules to go to 12gb and 3 of them to go to 9gb if you need more in the future.

If you want 1333 speed, then you have to replace them all anyhow however

I still believe if you are not needing a monitor, it makes the most sense to forgo the lessor quality Dell memory they are overcharging you for and just go ahead and get Gskill or Corsair et al RAM at 1333MHz, avoiding the upgrade headache and starting right off the bat with the best ram. I'm still not seeing the "different motherboard" for the 3GB option, as they would just give you 3 1GB sticks for three of the six slots. I'd save the ducats buying the lessor ram, putting it towards top notch ram at better spec all the way around. You could have the ram waiting for you. When it's time to upgrade, get another round of 6GB for the other three slots, for a total of 12GB of DDR3 1333MHz ram. And it would still be cheaper buying a second HD from the Newegg etc. Why spend more for less product? I would think the 3650 would do fine for most users as well, at least for image quality. Again, I had a 3450 at 256mb that was actually fine with my 24" HD monitor at 1920x1200.

Reading all of this just makes me want to sort mine out, I mean its a beast of a pc (compared to my old athlon xp 2600 32bit from like 2004 ) but the annoying things that you can only sort out once you actually own it and only find out about once you own it can be infuriating! The fans and ram are my main concern and hopefully without spending too much I will be able to sort these (as I have only just started paying for the unit through the 0% interest deal through the college my dad works at!).

The pc was not as quiet as I thought it would be when I got it, it has an annoying hum, it is relatively quiet but still doesnt have the whisper quiet sound I was expecting from a 'studio' pc. I suppose some of the humming in mine could be because I have two HDs in RAID 0 and they need extra dampening or something. Well basically now to get this pc as I want it theres some investigating and fiddling to be done.

One thing I did find which may be a future upgrade in the current case (if it will fit) is this CPU heatsink:

--- I am unable to post links as yet as I have only posted 3 replys so far but in place of a link search Xigmatek Thor in Google and you will see some previews, one from TweakTown which has good pics on page 2. -----

I was going to build my own pc and bought a 775 socket heatsink from xigmatek which is similar to the above 'THOR' model (good name ha). The 775 model cost my about £16 on ebay brand new and it had very good reviews and kept up with some £35-40 models. But as you can see from the pics of the THOR this model is massive so would be interesting to see if it will fit in the Dell case (it probably wont but lets hope!).

Sorry for these long posts but I have much to say about this as I want this pc to be as it should and help others in similar situations. Plus everyone else's input has been really good and useful so far so lets keep it going and we can sort Dells mess out!

Poke13

Here is a cut of my chat with the agent:

5:01:56 PM Agent XPS_RR_Rep_Marilyn
so the amount of the dimms depends on the system you are configuring
5:02:04 PM Agent XPS_RR_Rep_Marilyn
how many are on the system you have there
5:02:23 PM Customer FEChariot
6 it is a dell studio XPS Desktop
5:02:34 PM Agent XPS_RR_Rep_Marilyn
well the base version has 3 dimms the higher priced has 6 dimms

I have looked at the on-line manuals at Dell.com and there is nothing showing 2 mb options for the studio XPS. I am completely convinced she was as clueless on this as she was about the rest of the conversation.

Also Dell just told me my unit was going to be back ordered for another 10 days. I'm going to start pricing out custom build options from newegg now......

UPDATE: REAR CASE FAN TOTAL NOISE CULPRIT

Ok, I'm believing I have been wrong about the main noise culprit this entire time. One, I had always read that the CPU COOLER FAN was roaring to life, sounding like a Porsche 956 heading down Mulsanne Straight. Yes, the stock 92mm CASE FAN was annoying, droning the entire time and too loud for its own good, but when the CPU FAN supposedly roared to High, it was something else entirely. I theorized it was the cooler itself, its implementation, or perhaps even the Thermal Paste differences between various units. Whatever it was, the CPU FAN was needing to shift to high to cool that beast down.

Fast forward to the last few hours of testing and discovery. Alas, the CPU COOLER FAN is NOT THE CULPRIT. It's actually the 92MM CASE FAN THAT ROARS TO LIFE, sounding like the leaf blower on a late fall morn!

I've been running tests on my machine for the last few hours while working, using CPU-Z, Real Temp 3.0, and Core Temp 0.99.4.

You can learn a lot about your system with these programs, and while they are more useful for system builders with something besides OEM motherboards, they provide valuable insight into ANY system.

See the actual readouts that I have saved via screenshots, each labeled above test. My Dell 435MT is actually running at close to 2.800MHz instead of the stock 2.67. The core voltage is 1.04v. Notice the RAM, which is actually SAMSUNG, with clocking and latency specs. The memory is pretty standard with nothing too compelling here. Moving to higher quality 1333MHz would aid but this is ok.

Now notice the CPU temperature reports. The Real Temp on the left was done with the case fan connected while the temps on the right via Core Temp was done with the side panel off and no case fan. Regardless, the core temps are hovering around 50C which could probably be brought down with better case fan cooling and perhaps a better CPU cooler (the stock cooler is rather mediocre). The max core temps I've hit are 64C so far (again, no gaming).

Lastly, see the ATI 4850, which is slightly overclocked, something I did with the auto-tuning feature. Temps for the card are toasty, averaging around 70C. Better air flow would help.

The biggest find here is that the CASE FAN is what is coming on at full throttle, sounding like a blower on steroids. And so far, I see absolutely NO rhyme nor reason for it turning on as it has nothing to do with the core temps in the CPU OR the video card temps. It seems to cycle at whim, perhaps triggered by load but I don't see it mirroring the load in the Core Temp software. Its not clear whether the motherboard/bios is telling it to do this or not.

One thing, this STOCK fan pushes a lot of air so your replacement better do this as well. Perhaps with new fan solutions, the temps and turn/on would come down. People are easily getting the core temps of the CPU down in the upper 20s and 30s in other i7 920 systems I read about. In the case of my 435Mt, at least I've narrowed down the culprit to this case fan. I've not seen a single real answer at Dell (remember, I'm in the USA, too).

NOTE: See the wattage as well, not even at 150w. This PSU is not being taxed with my current load which includes two DVD and a 500GB external drive along with the ATI 4850 and twin 640GB SATA drives in RAID 0.

I too have been pricing custom builds and it's going to be 400 + more USD to get something I'm happy with though it would surely be a step up in quality.






- kh

I priced a bunch of stuff out in comparable systems and i couldn't get near Dell's price off their website much less the package deal that included an extended warranty and much needed software that they offered me. I guess I'm just going to have wait. Dell told me the reason for my delay was that they are selling so many of these studio XPS desktops that they are having a hard time stocking parts to build them. I guess the economy isn't hurting Dell too much so far.

I think I'll just upgrade the video card and PS in a while.

Thanks for all the detailed info abstrait. Good stuff

Yeah, it's definitely a deal for sure. I got my configuration for a hair over $900usd with two HD totaling 1.2TB, now running in RAID 0 which is one fast configuration (backups go to the external), plus the 4850. And the PSU is not even taxed with this config.

If keeping the Dell, it will be interesting to see the solutions for the fan issues. If I keep mine, and I'm at 50/50 now, I want to get rid of the fan noise but ALSO get the temps of the processor down in the 30s if possible. Dont know if that will be easy with this case. The fan blower issue HAS to go for sure.

ADDITION: Did you see my motherboard layout in the page before? You see that 4 pin connector for the CPU fan? That might be able to run that front case fan, too.

Lastly, that @50C is coming with very low load. It's actually hard to get this thing above 15%!

Hi abstrait,

Thanks for a fascinating post.

I noticed you've gone for the 2.66GHz processor, rather than the 2.93GHz one.

Would there be much performance difference between the two ?

Presumably the latter will generate even more heat and it adds a lot more to the cost of the PC.

Do you think that the Noctua NF-B9-1600 Vortex-Control 92mm Quiet Case Fan
should be up to the job ?

Dell currently have a 10% discount on these machines at the moment, so I think I'm going to make a move.

It'll be mainly used for Dot Net / MSSQL programming, with no gaming at all.

I'm going to go with the 3GB RAM option and then buy 6GB 1333MHz RAM from Crucial and swap that out.

I still don't understand why when I choose the 8GB RAM option (no that I'm going to) in conjunction with the basic 256MB GPU, it displays an "incompatibility warning".

Decided not to go for a RAID HD as I think that SSDs will probably be taking over soon.

Thanks for your valuable contributions and I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Hi enigma,

Since owning my own version of this system the fans have been annoying me and are the most annoying thing on the system for sure.

The system you are lookin at should be easily good enough for what you are planning to use it for and a lot more and I think this is why Dell will sell so many, as these machines actually do have a little bit of upgradability but it is all capped by the motherboard being very basic in comparison to other non OEM aftermarket MBs.

In general I think they are a good deal but they do have a few niggly problems, mainly the fan and the slight hum when idling but at the price and the hardware you get you can expect it to be amazing especialy because the case is the same if not very similar to lower spec dell desktops. The biggest let down is definately the case but I suppose this is how they are so cheap, Dell did not have to design or manufacture a newer style case so passed the savings on, even the Power Supply was probably a batch left over from another lower spec'd Dell or something. All the parts are 'fine' but maybe in the long run could have done with being a little more matched to the performance of the core i7. hmm I could talk about this all day.

I really want to get to the bottom of the case fan now as I (and abstrait) both thought it would have been the cpu fan? hmmm. All I know is I have heard it go into medium leaf blower mode when doing a virus scan or installing something, but when I encoded some mpeg video it went into turbo leafblower mode and that is the most worrying thing as to why it has to make so much noise! Argh its as if it reacts to hard drive activity and not just cpu temp hmmm.

My thought is that its loud to try and pull as much air as a 120mm would in a bigger case but I suppose for such a system 1 case fan is a little on the bare minimum side of things!

What do you guys think?

On the Noctua NF-B9-1600 option, I'm thinking that fan might be definitely quiet enough for sure but I'm wondering if it will bring in enough air to get the i7 920 down into the 30s (also, man it's an expensive beast and two will bring a whopping $40). Right now, the average temp of the cores of my 920 is hovering around 50C which I think is a bit on the high side. Perhaps if you get TWO of those Noctua fans, replacing the rear and adding a front option, this powered by a splitter cable that comes off either the 3pin of the four pin CPU fan option near the RAM. That would surely put the cable more out of sight. I sure wish there was some way to manually control these fans. There is still no telling what in the BIOS is bringing this leaf blower case fan to life. I've still yet to hear the CPU fan make near the racket.

When messing with the clocking of the 4850, I did hear the ATI fan cycle into higher speeds as the GPU was stressed. But this was QUIET with a capital Q compared to the 1500w hair dryer case fan.

If I keep this computer I'm going to try the two fan approach. Still havent decided on the exact fan, however as I'm trying to find the most movement of air for the least noise, a fine balancing act. I'm figuring two would be far better than one.

Edit: Fan Blower has been coming on like a hair dryer with an attitude ever few minutes or so lately. My core temps remain averaged between 48-52C. Ive got to see if this is solvable.

I did get a computer parts estimate based on an AnandTech build that came in near the 1200 mark for a nice system w/ EVGA or ASUS Motherboard. It might be cheaper in the long run, to be honest.


---------------------- EDIT ---------------------------

OK, I did finally get the CPU cooler fan to go into action. I was noticeable but not near as loud as the case fan's jump onto hair dryer overdrive.

As of now, looking at the core temps and the load, I cannot deduce why MINE is coming on as it is.

Either I get an answer/solution in the nex three days, or the beast is heading back, much as I'm not looking forward to starting all over.

kh

Hi abstrait,

Thanks for your recent postings which are as informative as ever.

It's obviously winter at the moment in the northern hemisphere, so presumably these Studio XPS machines are going to be deafening during the height of summer when temperatures are much warmer.

Would it be worth getting the 2.93GHz Core i7 instead of the 2.66GHz one ? They cost much more and probably generate more heat, but Dell have a 10% discount on at the moment.

I was reading a computer mag yesterday and they had a group test of eight Core i7 based machines (Dell not included) and they were criticising quite a few of them for being too noisy.

You know, aside from the fan noise and high temps, this computer works and runs like a champ. Indeed, if the beast was in a case with better airflow and fans, I'm sure it would be totally fine, aside from the obvious fast that Dell's BIOS is simply too basic, leaving the user with no way to control the variables that would bring the system and the Core i7 920 to capability.

Still, for the person that has no interest in building his or her own system, this is a compelling solution if one addresses the FAN issue with the notion that HEAT should probably be brought down along with the noise. I'm betting this can be done but it's just not there with the stock setup. On the other hand, the longevity of the system might not be that jeopardized by the slightly higher temps. I'm just wanting to bring them down, regardless.

On the choice between the i7 920 and the i7 940, I personally dont think the 940 is worth the price, especially if you ever move this processor to another motherboard with more control. The 920 is one of the best overclock processors of the i7 bunch and can hit over 4GHz in a motherboard that has a BIOS that allow this. It's definitely the sweet spot in the lineup. Obviously, for now, there is no way to do this via Dell's BIOS. Still, I wouldnt spend the extra ducats on the processor upgrade. Don't think you'll be seeing your best return in money to performance.

Hi abstrait,

I don't really see why YOU should have to work out which fan is making the noise and then incur further expense to replace it. I read on other forums about this machine that customers complain to Dell (with the threat of sending the system back) that the system is unacceptably noisy and put the onus on Dell to quieten it down to acceptable level.

Having had Dell computers off and on for the last near 20 years, I can tell you that sometimes it's far easier to go with a solution on your own, especially now that Dell has gotten to the size they are now, long removed from when Michael Dell was doing it way back when.

I could write them and have them send "another fan" to replace the culprit. And in all likelihood, get the exact same fan with the same characteristics, this reported in a few posts within Dell's own forum.

But you raise a good point. Ultimately, Dell should take care of this issue. I just think that if dealing with something like the fan issue, and dead set on keeping your machine, you might find more satisfaction just researching and solving the issue on your own, besides spending potential hours on the phone in search of someone that has the answers, with a good chance of contradiction by another representative sitting two feet away.

So on balance then, are you intending to keep it ?

Well, that's the $900 question of the moment (that's the great deal on this machine that makes it a tough call), especially as I type, listening to that fan cycle on yet again to blower levels, just this very second.

I've gone back and forth on this and almost feel an irrational attachment to this swine machine. But to be honest, I am leaning towards sending it back and going with my own build via newegg.com. I have worked up several "wish lists" to compare and contrast component choices/prices etc.

It is possible that one could build a very nice alternative for a few hundred more, a few hundred that you would easily spend if trying to upgrade this machine down the line.

Unfortunately, if going this route, it would be my third computer in two months, and it's already pushing my patience. Regardless, I will have an answer to this during the weekend, contingent if they will take the beast back with no issues, of course.