ATI AIW 9700 Pro on Abit NF7-S 2.0

ace960 · May 26, 2004

Hello, I used ATI AIW 9700 Pro on my system without any problem (AGP8x, FW ON). I had corrupted BIOS on my MB and I got it replaced. I had origonally Abit NF7-S 1.2. Now I have the same board rev. 2.0. I cannot start the system since the MB replacement.

The system does not start with this VGA. When I power it on then the VGA fan is running, the CPU fan starts and stops immediately, HD does not start. There is nothing on the screen. When I disconect the extra power cable then it starts and says that I should connect it.

Another VGA (GF4) works ok on this system. The ATI one works ok on other systems (300 and 350 W PS - no name, it also works on 350 W Fortron one).

My system specs:
- AXP1700@2200 MHz (10x220 synchro) @1.75V, Zalman CNPS6000-Cu@1800 RPM, 1 GB Dual Twinmos PC3200 (11-2-3-2.5)
- MSI GF4 Ti4200-8xVTD128 MB 250/512@300/600; NEC MultiSync LCD1760NX
- Hitachi 7K250 160 GB SATA (HDS722516VLSA80); Teac W552E, firmware 1.09
- Abit NF7-S 2.0, bios D23-3D-4247; Enermax EG365P-VE (350 W); CHIEFTEC DX-01SLD; Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 2.0

OC-ing does not make difference.
AGP voltage increase does not help.
AGP8x->4x does not help.
MB runs on the latest bios (24).
When I connect MB and VGA only (no peripherals) then it did not start.
I tested the power cable on floppy drive and the drive works ok.

Power Supply info from the box and from the BIOS screen:
+3.3V - 32A
+5V - 32A
+12V - 26A
-5V - 1A
-12V - 1A
+5VSb - 2.2A
+3.3V&5V - 185W
TOTAL POWER - 350W

Vcore 1,52
Vcc 2,66
Vio 3,38
+5V 5,00
+12V 11,92
-12V -12,19
-5V -5,29
Vsb 5,02
3.3V Dual 3,52

Please help.

Nic · May 26, 2004

I had the same problems with the same hardware.

Radeon AIW 9700 Pro - DOA

Here is a quote from some info I posted in that link ...

...

The Symptoms

As soon as the card arrived, I went about clearing the nVidia drivers and my TV Card drivers from my system ready to install the 9700 Pro AIW. I powered down the machine and swapped in the Radeon. This is where all the trouble began.

As soon as I powered up the PC, it shut itself off. Ok, stuff like this happens. I checked all of the connections, made sure the card was in place properly, made sure I hadn't dislodged anything else by accident, made sure no loose screws were shorting something out, but everything looked fine.

Tried it again and the same thing happened. My first thought was that this was a common nForce2 problem with the BIOS, although usually if this is the case, not powering up isn't a symptom (not reaching POST is). My next thought was that the card was dead, despite getting no warning beeps from the system, however putting the card into a different system I had no issue at all. After a few more troubleshooting procedures it boiled down to this. The problem seemed to be with the Radeon 9700 Pro card as disconnecting the floppy power connector to the card allowed the computer to power up fine, albeit to only get a display warning me that the power connector wasn't connected. All the signs lead to a power issue, but the fact that I had just finished testing and reviewing a PSU that is personally the best PSU I have seen brought me some confusion.

The Problem

So with the Ti4600 back in place I went surfing for information (or at least individuals with the same problem) and my first stop was the Rage3D forums. Lo and behold I come across a long thread with individuals with the exact same problems. They had exactly the same symptoms, with differing systems and specifications, but the main commonality appeared to be the Radeon 9700 Pro AIW card (and specifically a certain PCB revision).

The actual facts of what is happening appear to be a bit hazy but using the information I found at Rage3D, as well as from a few other sites (google is your friend) it would seem the most logical assumption is this. As your machine powers up, the capacitors on your motherboard and graphics card draw a lot of power initially. Now the Radeons draw a lot more than most, and the All-In-Wonder range more than others, which makes the PSU work overtime for that first second of start up.

The PSU I have here is the Aerocool Aeropower II Titanium 520w PSU and amongst its features are Over Volt Protection and Over Current Protection. It would seem that the combined draw from the motherboard and the Radeon is enough to trip the PSU into shutting down the power. You might think this means that the PSU is to blame, but since a lot of high end PSUs have these features for a reason I don't feel its right to place the blame with them.

I had the same issue using a Vantec Stealth 480w, and an Enermax 350w. Some users reported luck with Q-Tec or Kingwin PSU's. We could perhaps blame the motherboard but with such a wide range of differing systems having this issue it isn't likely, although some folks report swapping the motherboard for a different one solved it for them (yet others have the same problem with the same motherboards). Also the fact that some folks report returning the card for a new one solved the problem for them (and others report that it doesn't), leads me to believe that the issue is likely with the Radeon Card.

The main PCB revision recorded that is affected in this way is the ones marked "PN-xxx-xxxxx-10". This isn't to say that this affects all Radeons, or to say that it is exclusively a 9700 Pro AIW problem, but it does happen and the majority of reported cases I could find were AiW cards. It's basically a combination of the motherboard, the Radeon and how your PSU reacts to the initial power draw by your system.

The Solution

Well the problem here is that the PSU doesn't like the initial draw of power by both the Graphics card and the Motherboard at the same time so this left me with only few options.

1) Send the card back to ATI and pray I get lucky
2) Swap the motherboard and pray I get lucky
3) Get a PSU that doesn't have the various protections
4) Create some form of delaying circuit to attach to the 5v rail of the floppy power connector for the Radeon
5) Install a switch in the 5v rail floppy connector and delay the initial power manually

...

ace960 · May 26, 2004

Thank you for the reply. I am really angry about this. I was searching internet last 3 days to find something and this forum was the last and probably the best information I found.

This is really mess. I don't know who to blame first. The most intersting point for my system is that it WORKED with rev 1.2 but it doesn't with 2.0!

How did YOU solve it?

1) The AIW card is not mine - I am just testing it before I go for some upgrade. I wanted to know if it is worth to upgrade from GF4.
2) I just swapped it from 1.2 to 2.0 - they're not gonna to replace it again
3) I want those protection
4)-5) - that's interestning but I am not so skilled to do this.

==
So it seems that it is related to AIW (or ATI) only. I hope that if I take 6800NU that it will work. What do you think?

Arris · May 26, 2004

I was running an Abit NF7-S v2.0 with a Sapphire 9700 Pro and 350w Enermax PSU. I had no such problems. I did have problems with the system when overclocking an 2100+ Tbred B CPU. I then upgraded to an Antec 550w TruePower PSU and the overclock instabilities went away. Just to let you know that it shouldn't be a problem with all cards. Also try a connection straight from the PSU if you can rather than one shared with connections to other devices.

ace960 · May 26, 2004

Originally posted by Arris
I was running an Abit NF7-S v2.0 with a Sapphire 9700 Pro and 350w Enermax PSU. I had no such problems. I did have problems with the system when overclocking an 2100+ Tbred B CPU. I then upgraded to an Antec 550w TruePower PSU and the overclock instabilities went away. Just to let you know that it shouldn't be a problem with all cards. Also try a connection straight from the PSU if you can rather than one shared with connections to other devices.

I believe that the problem is not present on all cards. It seems it is related to some batch of the cards. I did what you recommend - it did not help.

Arris · May 26, 2004

I also had a Sapphire 9800 running on that board without problem (which got the same 3dmark03 score as the 9700 Pro). If the problem is a batch of cards its most likely an older batch. So if this card isn't yours then you should be safe to buy a new ATI card.

ace960 · May 26, 2004

I just test this with noname PS at 300 and 350 W. It works OK. So if you want to run this piece of expensive hardware you should buy noname PS - this is really bad. ATI will not run in my system. I don't care if it was older batch or if it is not mine. This is OTT (my English teacher says that OTT = Over the Top).

agissi · May 26, 2004

That card would be highly worthy over a GF4, highly.

ace960 · May 27, 2004

---agissi---:
That's your opinion. You have partial true. That card is just piece of hardware I cannot normally use. That's all (and nothing more). I am not blind nvidia hw buyer but these things made me jump. But this is not subject of this thread.

==
I've got some notes for peoplee with this problem:
1. The first system power on always works. I mean when I shutdown PC, power off the PS switch, remove the cable, remove GF4 from the system, insert the ATI AIW, switch on the PS and power on the system then it works.
2. When you use this first power on system method then it is not all won. When you try to save some bios changes it fails, it shut downs the system and you cannot power it on again. You ghave to replace the VGA and then you can see the ABit message about saving BIOS (yeah, really "funny").

==
My last test would be to test another VGA card with external power connector (GF FX5900SP). If this works I will be satisfied.

EDIT: GF FX5900SP works ok.

ATI AIW 9700 Pro on Abit NF7-S 2.0

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Nic

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