TechSpot - PC Technology News and Analysis

Hanto · #21 10-06-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Nic
And the mere installation of some harmless software (e.g. a game) can cause your software translation program to crash and thus lose the mapping to your drive. I've had it happen, and I could even replicate it by repeating the same install. A power outage may also cause this to happen, as can many other effects. These utilities do work, but they are not reliable, and that is the issue here.

Incidentally, I've done a web search for info on data loss when using drive translation utilities, such as MaxBlast. I drew a blank, probably because not many people are using such utilities to provide drive translation, and I only spent about 10 mins searching (enough for me). Problems do exist, but I can only provide my own experience as evidence. Make of that what you will.

Nic, both you and Rick should know that no company is going to allow much dis-advertising to reach the internet in this day and age.. It's there, just has to be searched harder for then it used to be.

However my main reason for this response is not to worry about some GAME install or to justify Rick's statement about translation software being okay for the masses, because in my experience, it is the single worst VIRUS a person will EVER come up against. It does things to the HD and the computer's ability to UNDERSTAND the HD that only extremely dedicated ( to the welfare of the computer ) people would begin to take notice of.

Hanto

Th3M1ghtyD8 · #22 10-06-2003

Quote:

It does things to the HD and the computer's ability to UNDERSTAND the HD that only extremely dedicated ( to the welfare of the computer ) people would begin to take notice of.

What you mean like hook in to the hard drives MBR & MFT, and redirect logic hard drive calls in LBA mode into a format the BIOS can understand, through the use of paging.

Nic · #23 10-06-2003

Here's some info on Software Translation (Dynamic Drive Overlays) ...

[This website also does not recommend using these programs.]

Resolving BIOS and Drive Size Barriers

Quote:

Software Translation (Dynamic Drive Overlays)

Before we delve too deeply into Software Translation, otherwise known as "Dynamic Drive Overlays", you should be aware of the fact that we are not a proponent of their use unless there are no alternatives and the need to deploy the large hard drive is immediate. At times, software translation can cause problems for the operating system, data restoration and/or recovery in the vent of a drive crash.

As we have explained earlier, first attempt to overcome the problem by updating the BIOS on the motherboard, and if that isn't an option, regardless of the reason, give adequate consideration to a motherboard or system replacement. No doubt the first thought that will enter your mind is that we are trying to sell motherboards as a solution. True, we sell motherboards, but we also make every attempt to prevent problems that we have seen through our years of experience. The issue comes down to choosing between the alternatives, spending money on a hardware solution, or going with a free software solution. Just keep in mind that free is not always what it implies if doing so wastes considerable amounts of your time and endangers your data. For those of you who can afford to do so, we strongly recommend a hardware solution, such as an expansion BIOS card, add-in disk controller card, third-party BIOS upgrade (for a fee) or a new motherboard.

If a hardware solution is simply not in your future, and you must get your system up and running, then your only alternative in order to access the full hard disk capacity is to use a software translation driver, also referred to as a dynamic drive overlay or DDO. In the past when drive size issues were more prevalent, these drivers were typically named something akin to Disk Manager, EZ-Drive and MaxBlast etcetera. Essentially they, through the use of software, override some of the older BIOS code in the BIOS chip on your motherboard or hard disk controller, thereby allowing access to the full size of your new hard disk. The software loads immediately during the machines boot up (startup) process and must be active before any other software, such as your operating system, tries to access the disk. To accomplish this, when the DDO is installed the first time, it modifies the master boot record of the boot disk, installing the driver at the very beginning of the disk.

Usually when a new hard disk is purchased at full boxed retail, the drive manufacturer often includes a copy of their driver program, drive overlay and utilities free with the drive. You can also download these drivers and other free disk utilities from the drive manufacturers web site. While there are several of these overlay utilities available, we have seen the least problems with those provided by Maxtor and Western Digital. Both have made an exceptional effort to write premium software and both fully support what they have written.

Maxtor has had one software solution in place since 1993, with its MaxBlast® software. Software translation is an effective, but non-conventional, means of translating sector addresses of large capacity hard disk drives. Instead of loading a driver in the start-up files, MaxBlast® loads drivers before the operating system is loaded. The latest version of MaxBlast® can be obtained directly from Maxtor's Internet Web site. As in the case with Maxtor, Western Digital also has drive translation software to enable the use of large hard drives in systems with an outdated or legacy BIOS, motherboard, and in some cases the operating system itself. Western Digital's version of this software was known as EZ-Drive®, which is now referred to as Western Digital's Data Lifeguard Tools®.

As mentioned at the beginning of this topic, we are not a proponent of using drive overlays. While drive manufacturers often tout that using their software translation drivers is equal to updating the BIOS, simply put, it isn't! There are numerous problems associated with using software translation for large disk support, which supports our position of not recommending them when other alternatives are available. Here are just a few of the more prominent issues:

- Operating System Installation and Compatibility Issues: These drivers modify the master boot record and are installed at the very beginning of the data area on the drive, essentially setting up their own logical disk volume using a non-standard disk format. As such, your disks are not being setup in the manner intended by the system manufacturer, drive manufacturer, motherboard manufacturer or the developer of the operating system. The overlay drivers can cause problems when using alternative operating systems, or should you attempt to set up a multiple boot system.

- Driver Problems including Removal: The majority of these overlay drivers can be very difficult to remove from the disk, requiring you to rely upon uninstall utilities that come with the driver itself. Should you need to remove the driver as the result of an upgrade, such as a new motherboard that supports larger drives, you will need to either leave the overlay driver in place or repartition the hard disk and format it. Aside from the inherent danger to your data, just the inconvenience of having to reformat just when your operating system is running perfectly would be enough to cause second thoughts.

- Reduced Drive Interoperability: Most of the overlay drivers that come with the various manufacturers' drives are customized for the drives they manufacture and their specific technology. Hence, if you were put a Western Digital hard drive in your PC and later want to add a Maxtor drive, you may have a bit of a problem. At this point you may have to purchase an advanced version of a disk manager, and given the added cost, it may be prudent to purchase an add-in hard disk controller or replace the motherboard.

- Floppy Disk Booting Complications: As noted earlier in this discussion, since the driver is located on the hard drive, you must boot from the hard drive in order to load it. If you boot from a floppy, your hard drive may seem to "disappear" because the overlay hasn't been loaded. These overlay drivers will allow you to boot from a floppy, however you must first boot the hard drive, wait for the overlay to load and then a message to be displayed that permits you to boot from a floppy disk.

If you're not doing anything unusual with your computer system such as either multi or dual booting various operating systems, programming, web design or data intensive work, and the potential for data loss is not a concern to you, these overlay drivers will work. Overlay drivers are an acceptable alternative when you need to get your system up and running now and cannot wait for a better solution. If you're concerned about potential data loss, and/or your system has a substantial amount of software to be loaded, we recommend that you seek other alternatives as we have mentioned above.

StormBringer · #24 10-06-2003

I spoke my opinion based on my experiences with the software. Personal experience in which I had see no problems. I also stated that there were possible problems, though I felt nic was making too big a deal out of it. Especially in the situation here.

Even the statements made by Rick and the quote nic posted both agree that in most cases there are none of the "major problems" that can possibly occur. Rick has even recommended these installation utilities on previous occasions, others have as well, no one condemned them as fools and idiots for doing it.

Just like anything else recommended by any of us here at TS, you have to weigh the options. If you need to get the machine up and running, and if there is no BIOS update that can help, and you don't want to buy a controller card, then this would be another option to consider.

Nic · #25 10-06-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by StormBringer
Rick has even recommended these installation utilities on previous occasions, others have as well, no one condemned them as fools and idiots for doing it.

And no one is condemning your advice either, as we all know you have a lot of experience with computers and that the quality of your advice is generally very high, and much valued. As long as the user is aware of issues, and accepts them, then that is fine. As to Rick, and others, recommending the use of such software, then it's probably more a case of them mentioning the fact that such software exists, rather than them actually *recommending* it's use.

I personally have never had a system stable for more than a few days using drive overlay software, so I am not a proponent of it. It is unpredictable, and your data really can be there one minute, and gone the next, simply because you chose to do something innocuous, such as install a new software application, or run windows update. Its all 'hit & miss', and way too risky for me to recommend to anyone.

We all know how bad it can feel to lose all the data on a hard drive, so I personally would never recommend installing drive overlay software to anyone, though it does do its job, just not reliably.

StormBringer · #26 10-06-2003

From a post made a few days ago
http://www.techspot.com/vb/showthrea...&threadid=7987

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick
The 8GB barrier is a limitation with older systems and there are a couple of work arounds.

FIRST, MAKE SURE YOU ARE ENABLING "LARGE DISK SUPPORT" WHEN USING FDISK. It should prompt you for this and you should choose YES.

1.) Flash your BIOS to the latest revision. Your board manfacturer should have the latest BIOS available for download. This is recommended only if you understand the consequences.

2.) Use drive installation utilities to break the 8GB barrier. WD & Maxtor always come with drive installation tools which "trick" the BIOS into recognizing the whole drive.

3.) Purchase a PCI UDMA controller. This is a PCI card that adds additional IDE channels to your computer. The card works independantly from the BIOS, meaning it can address larger sizes even if your computer does not support it.

Something else to consider is that once you break the 8GB barrier, then you have to find a way to get past the 32GB barrier. LoL. You really should not have installed such a large drive in such an old system. Hopefully doing the above will also get you past 32GB as well.

The next one after that is 137GB, so you shouldn't have to worry about that one.

I don't think that was a passing mention. It was given as an option as mine was. Nothing less, nothing more.

Betageek48 · #27 10-22-2006

Having had to recover only *one* of my home machines from translation software corruption was enough to teach me a lesson about using it.

Never again!

But then, that's just me.....

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