Almost got my old scanner working w/Win7 64bit

By Mugsy
Nov 23, 2010
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  1. SO close! Help me get this ball across the goal line!

    I have a old "Microtek ScanMaker E3" scsi flatbed scanner that originally came with an ISA scsi interface (to give you some idea of how old it is). I connected it to my PC using a equally ancient Tekram 390F pci SCSI card (c.1995) that I've been using with 32bit WinXP Pro for years.

    The scanner has an 8-1/2" x 14" scanning bed, 9600dpi and 48bit color reproduction. It works great and I see no reason to spend a few hundred dollars to replace it just for Win7 compatibility, so I'm trying to get it to work with the 64bit version of Windows 7.

    To complicate things, the company that made my SCSI card (Tekram) went out of business years ago, so the 32bit XP driver was the last they made. But after MUCH Googling, I found a 64bit Win7 compatible driver for another card using the same chipset, and low & behold, Windows 7 recognized it! It then "detected" my scanner for the first time, but didn't have a driver.

    Again, after much searching, I found a Vista 64bit version of Microtek's "ScanWizard" scanner software with 64bit driver, and now 64bit Windows 7 detects my scanner! Yeah!

    But when I try to access the scanner, I get an error telling me I "must install Color Matching System first" for the scanner to work. I don't remember any such software being needed to use the scanner with XP, and there is no such program in the ScanWizard software I just installed (searching online suggests I will also need to run an "ICC Color Profiler").

    Anyone have any ideas? So close yet so far! (I love doing things I was told were "impossible".) Help!
  2. raybay

    raybay TS Evangelist Posts: 7,241   +9

    That Microtek ScanMaker E3 scsi flatbed scanner ... didn't even work well with Windows XP... and the cost in time and components to attempt to make it work are much higher than a decent Canon or Epson scanner which can be had fof $40... Less if used...

    On what system are you runny SCSI ?
  3. Mugsy

    Mugsy TS Guru Topic Starter Posts: 360   +9

    My E3.

    The scanner has always worked perfectly for me. Fast; perfect color recognition, and standard TWAIN compatibility.

    If you know where I can find a fast 9600dpi 48bit scanner with 8-1/2" x 14" scanning area for $40, please post the link.

    Otherwise, your reply is not helpful.
  4. raybay

    raybay TS Evangelist Posts: 7,241   +9

    We bought our Canon 8800F scanner on eBay for $40 plus shipping... meets or exceeds those specs.
  5. Mugsy

    Mugsy TS Guru Topic Starter Posts: 360   +9


    A quick Google search finds the Canon is a 4800x9600 scanner with a Max. Document Size 8.5" x 11.7".

    That's not "meet or exceeds".

    Since I have all the hardware currently working and recognized, lacking only the necessary software to allow Win7 to use it, I don't need to invest one dime getting it to work.
  6. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 11,456   +1,759

    This is sort of open to semantic debate. From my point of view, it's more along these lines, "no, you like finding things to do that are impossible, then come here and expect us to tell you how do do them".

    So, try installing "XP Mode" in your computer, then run the scanner under that.

    If that doesn't work by itself, then install any version of Adobe Photoshop Elements into XP mode. PSE integrates color management into the computer, and interprets color profiles.

    Or, maybe you should kick back some lazy night, and write new drivers for it.
  7. Mugsy

    Mugsy TS Guru Topic Starter Posts: 360   +9

    XP Mode

    The problem is you can't install 32bit drivers under a 64bit OS, and software installed under "XP Mode" can't access hardware devices that are using 64bit drivers. You must either go ALL 64bit, or nothing.

    And I'm not asking to be "bailed out". I've already done the heavy lifting just getting the scsi card and the scanner to even be recognized by Win7 (they said it couldn't be done). Now I'm just looking for software.

    Doing some more searching, I found 64bit Win7 versions of the Color Manager and ICC Profiler for the 9800XL scanner on the Microtek website, but after installation, it doesn't recognize the E3 (I suspect it is looking for the 9800xl).

    And unfortunately, though my programming skill is decent, I wouldn't know where to start to solve this issue. It does NOT appear to be a "driver" issue at this point (since all the Device drivers are installed and working), so much as a "compatibility" issue.
  8. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 11,456   +1,759

    Well XP mode is 32 bit.
  9. Mugsy

    Mugsy TS Guru Topic Starter Posts: 360   +9

    Your point?

    Uh, yeah.

    First off, I think you are referring to the "XP Virtual Machine", not "XP (Compatibility) Mode".

    Either way, you can't install 32bit drivers under 64bit Windows 7, not even in "XP Mode". Not sure if you get that or not.
  10. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 11,456   +1,759

    Actually, "XP Mode" is M$ designation for the virtual machine version. This gets run under "Virtual PC". So, I'm talking about the virtual machine, and you're talking about something else. Do you get that?

    You're allowed to install software directly into XP Mode, (VM), M$ said so.

    With that being said, actual "hardware incompatibility" is "a bridge too far". For example, you can't put a 64 bit CPU into a 32 bit board, it won't work.
  11. Mugsy

    Mugsy TS Guru Topic Starter Posts: 360   +9


    You still don't seem to understand that you can't install 32bit drivers under 64bit Windows in "XP Mode"... "compatibility", "VM", or otherwise. Doesn't work.
  12. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 11,456   +1,759

    Oh well, then I guess you're SOL.

    Oddly certain drivers show up in the "Add Remove" program listing. For example video drivers, audio drivers, and the there's LAN drivers, they show up there also.

    M$ says you can install software into the virtual machine. Perhaps they should have said "certain software". Or they were lying. I simply hate it when that happens.

    Just as an aside, I have one of the old Canon scanners mentioned by raybay. In this case, an even older one, (8400F). Canon supplies Win 7 drivers for it, and it scans just fine off Win 7 32 bit. So good in fact, I think I'll install the 64 bit version in my other PC.
  13. Mugsy

    Mugsy TS Guru Topic Starter Posts: 360   +9

    Not helpful.

    "Ordinary" software that uses standard functions that HAVE to be emulated through the VM, like audio, video and disk access or otherwise 99% of most programs would not work, can be installed this way.

    But the VM isn't a complete OS. It's just an emulator.
  14. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 11,456   +1,759

    With all that said, Photoshop (or Elements) ingratiates itself into the color management of the OS. That said, when printers or scanners are installed those devices are directly linked to PS functioning. Those profiles and color management are the things you claimed you are lacking. So, again, can you get PS or PSE to take over the color management from Windows?

    It's not working now, so installing the image editor first is something else to try. Besides, if that doesn't work, you'll have the satisfaction of telling me so.

    As my limited understanding of the subject goes, color profiles are digitally signed into a device at the hardware level. Accordingly, it's the responsibility of the driver to communicate that to the OS. My limited point being, that the driver can't be ruled out completely as the culprit.
  15. LookinAround

    LookinAround Ex Tech Spotter Posts: 6,491   +183

    Yes! MS makes "driver installs" confusing. But I can explain why some "drivers" will appear in Add/Remove Programs

    Because driver EXE files are really "driver packages". The EXE file is a packed executable
    > The EXE might contain just the device driver OR
    > As often the case for LAN, audio and graphics driver packages: the EXE can contain more then just the device driver. The EXE will include application level stuff: e.g. control panel applets, vendor "hot key" applications, notification icons and shortcuts for the device, etc.

    In such cases
    • The EXE installation creates both application and driver level installs
    • The application stuff appears in Add/Remove Programs
    • The driver appears in Device Manager
    • When you run application uninstaller from Add/Remove it uninstalls BOTH the apps plus the driver level stuff that had been installed
    That's also why if you only try uninstalling a graphics/audio/network device using Device Manager, you see the device reinstall itself on reboot.

    But if you uninstall those devices using Add/Remove, the Add/Remove uninstaller both uninstalls AND removes the files (including driver files). So in this case, on next reboot, Windows says "no device driver found" instead of the device reinstall
  16. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 11,456   +1,759

    Then can a "driver package" be installed into a virtual machine? And if it could be, would it still be separate from the driver installed under the actual OS? Or is the entire VM installation attached to a single API? (In this case, the API that would be "Virtual PC's" mount point)?
  17. LookinAround

    LookinAround Ex Tech Spotter Posts: 6,491   +183

    That's a good question. And my honest answer is "i don't know" :(

    Understanding Windows and Windows devices seems to me to be a "black art". (At best, i'd say my knowledge is lighter shade of grey.) Frankly, sometimes the more i figure out, the more i get confused and amazed the whole darn thing works! (Well, Windows generally works :D ). It's quite a large, complex and layered beast!

    My best guess (also see Windows 7 FAQ about 32 bit programs on 64 bit hardware): Compatibility issues seem to always revolve around the driver and other low-level (kernel level) software. The same compatibility issues will apply to those low-level components n the driver pacakge as well
  18. superty12

    superty12 TS Enthusiast Posts: 413

    Install Photoshop or Elements onto Windows 7. Wow, that is techniclly impossible.
  19. Mugsy

    Mugsy TS Guru Topic Starter Posts: 360   +9

    VM and Drivers

    Unfortunately, the VM is just an Emulator, so it doesn't support things like Drivers. When I open the Device Manager from within the Win XP Virtual Machine installed on my 64bit version of Windows 7, all "obscure" drivers like my SCSI card and the Scanner aren't listed, replaced with a bunch of "Unknown" (aka "Question Mark") "Virtual XP Device" entries.

    So if I try to install my XP scanner software on the VM, it says "Scanner not found".

    And XP software installed using "Compatibility Mode" under Win7 likewise doesn't detect the scanner. Dunno why, which is why I'm looking for software that does.

    (More info, I Daisy Chained an OLD Zip-100 drive from the scanner, which worked perfectly, confirming that the scsi card & driver are not at fault. It is definitely a scanner issue.)
  20. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 11,456   +1,759

    WTF are you talking about?
  21. superty12

    superty12 TS Enthusiast Posts: 413

    @CaptainCranky: I mean that technically, getting that old a scanner to work with Windows 7 isn't possible.
  22. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 11,456   +1,759

    That's not what you posted This is what I responded to;
    When both Photoshop and Photoshop Elements are installed, Adobe RGB is substituted for Windows color management. Accordingly, PS & PSE have a background process running all the time.

    The OP stated the scanner's color profile wasn't being picked up by Win 7. I suggested the software install as a "what the heck, it's not working now" sort of last ditch attempt to determine if PS was able to pick up the scanner profile when Windows couldn't.

    PS CS-4 runs natively in Win 7 32 or 64 bit, and PSE-7 will run under it also, but with some quirks. PSE-8 and PSE-9 are supposed to have full compatibility with Win 7, but I think 32 bit only. Again, they'll both run under 64 bits, Adobe just won't supporrt it
  23. Tedster

    Tedster Techspot old timer..... Posts: 6,000   +15

    @ mugsy - actually you CAN install 32 bit drivers under XP virtual machine mode in win 7 64 bit. I installed an older scanner this way. While it will not work in win 64, it will work under XP virtual machine mode.
  24. Mugsy

    Mugsy TS Guru Topic Starter Posts: 360   +9

    Heard it before

    That's what they said about my old SCSI card, yet here it is.

    Hardware is hardware. All one needs is the proper software to access it.
  25. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 11,456   +1,759

    So, then I was right and it's a software issue?

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