AMD Ryzen 7000 is off to a slow start, Zen 4 sales are not good

[kapital98]

Good article. It would have been nice if it had a special label: "analysis" or even "opinion".

The one issue where the article provides no citation, and is likely wrong, is this: "One key factor is the economic climate worldwide. We are in a recession, which is weakening demand for PC hardware substantially."

Most economists argue we are not currently in a recession due to the strong labor market. Two quarters of decreasing GDP is not sufficient for a recession. This is something the NBER takes into account when making their decision on a recession. However, they also take other things (like labor markets) into account as well.

Even laymen news sites (Business Insider, etc) go out of their way to describe the nuance and why most analysts don't believe this is a recession [and, even the "technical" aspect of a recession, given in finance articles, are not agreed upon by macroeconomists; hence most academics avoiding the term.]

Now, if this is an opinion piece, and a citation is given, then claiming we are in a recession is more understandable. But stating it as a pure fact is both factually wrong and unintentionally misleading.

 

[defaultluser]

I don't think they could have released those chips that early even if they wanted.

well then, they should have delayed - as long as 5800x3d is already on the market, this product is pointless!

who cares about Raptor Lake - we're expecting the mass-production o be round ces. oh. and Intel's prices will rise too ( so why the sudden need to hurry to release thhis hodgepodge?)

 

[Puiu]

well then, they should have delayed - as long as 5800x3d is already on the market, this product is pointless!

who cares about Raptor Lake - we're expecting the mass-production o be round ces.

You can't delay. Sitting on stock is always a bad business decision, especially when your competition is trying to one-up you.

Even if gaming isn't that amazing compared to the 5800X3D, the rest is still amazing. The increased multithreading performance is very large and it was needed to keep Intel close in benchmarks.

Imagine having the 13th series from intel compared to the 5000 series from AMD. It would have butchered them, especially in MT.

 

[punctualturn]

Funny how every single time that Tim produces a video about AMD, it is always with a negative tone or simply to trash them (except for one of the FSR videos) , but boy, am I waiting for him to do the same for even one Nvidia video.

So 1K for a mobo, cpu and memory its bad, but 1700 for just a gpu its ok because...reasons....


And mind you, AMD actually reduced the price of some of the new CPU meanwhile offering way better performance, but somehow, the mobos and memories prices are AMD fault and the reduced CPU price is ignored.

Is like its always has to be AMD fault....

 

[Soaptrail]

As I see it

succinctly sums it up.
Hopefully, when Intel releases their next gen parts, AM5 mobos will find pricing sanity.

I plan on building 4 new systems to replace various systems in my home built with much older procs/parts. IvyBridge-E, Phenom II, Kabini, A12-7850 APU, but there is no way I am going to jump into AM5 with mobo prices in insanity territory, nor am I willing to build a new system on an AM4 platform, nor am I willing to do another Intel build.

On the bright side, it would seem that AMD priced the Zen4 CPUs reasonably, however, AMD and mobo manufacturers seem to be riding that "preferred by enthusiasts" and 70% market share with far too much hubris for my tastes. The good thing, as I see it, is that AM5 platform sales are slow, and given "free market economics" along with Intel's pending launch of cheaper, yet unlikely lived longer than one CPU generation mobos, the price for getting into even the high-end AM5 systems will drop - assuming, of course, AMD wants to sell the AM5 platform.

I have never had to spend more than $200 for a mobo and I have a X570 motherboard currently. I get they add some additional items like better VRM's and higher speed wired internet but all these $300+ mobo are crazy and they are not for me.

 

[Puiu]

Funny how every single time that Tim produces a video about AMD its always with a negative tone or simple to trash them (except for one of the FSR videos) , but boy, am I waiting for him to do the same for even one Nvidia video.

So 1K for a mobo, cpu and memory its bad, but 1700 for just a gpu its ok because...reasons....

Their videos are usually very fair. There is a reason why Nvidia previously banned from receiving review cards. And most of the early 5000 series videos were positive (with some exceptions ofc).

 

[nodfor]

Maybe they should focus more on less power and heat. That is the thing that stops me from buying them.

These new cpus are very efficient - if you mind them going full power, you can just set a lower power limit.

 

[Fastturtle]

No Sheep Herman! One of the major issues that is affecting sales is that AMD has only stated that AM5 will be around through 2025 officially. They may extend that but they could also kill it in favor of the AM6 in less time. This is way to short a refresh cycle for many businesses as most are on a 5-6 year replacement cycle. We also have Windows 10 support expiring in 2025, so many companies have to keep that in mind and Win11 is simply a train wreck as far as being ready for Prime Time. Corporate thinking is "If it aint broke, don't fix or replace it" and that's impacting the adoption of AM5.

Another factor that impacts business adoption is the power draw. AM5 uses quite a bit more power then AM4 and with the Russia/Ukraine War, Europe is having to wait as power is going to be a problem even though most of the Crypto Mining has ended. Simply put, they don't have the reserves available in any one country to laugh off the energy crisis when Russia can simply shut them down through the net as they've already supposedly done with all of the Wind and Gas Peaker Plants during the early stages of the war. Businesses are scared that they may not have any customers soon if someone in Russia decides to play the Nuclear Game (there aren't any winners in that one).

 

[ScottSoapbox]

A lot of people realize prices are going to be much better in the future with first more Intel competition and cheaper motherboards, then later cheaper RAM and cheaper SSDs.

Why build before black Friday?
And even cheaper if you wait until early next year.

 

[Nobina]

After the very dangerous virus that wiped out most of the planet it was suspected sales would slow down. Prices being absolute shite don't help either. To buy a new AMD 7000 CPU + NVIDIA RTX 4000 GPU your mom needs to work really hard to make me able to afford it.

 

[brucek]

The one issue where the article provides no citation, and is likely wrong, is this: "One key factor is the economic climate worldwide. We are in a recession, which is weakening demand for PC hardware substantially."

Perhaps recession was the wrong word, but consumer confidence feels relevant to me. I agree it's not about declines in jobs or GDP. It's about the higher prices everywhere you turn. I'm not an economist, but this is the theme I hear over and over in casual conversations and mainstream media.

 

[toooooot]

When your talking about $1000+ for just the CPU, Motherboard & RAM, is it any wonder sales are slow.

This is our new reality. Covid changed the world forever.
Goodbye affordable computer upgrades.
I have already accepted that my next decent PC will cost at the very least 2000 dollars.
This sucks and this is the reality.

 

[defaultluser]

You can't delay. Sitting on stock is always a bad business decision, especially when your competition is trying to one-up you.

Even if gaming isn't that amazing compared to the 5800X3D, the rest is still amazing. The increased multithreading performance is very large and it was needed to keep Intel close in benchmarks.

Imagine having the 13th series from intel compared to the 5000 series from AMD. It would have butchered them, especially in MT.

and? they launched am4 on an ancient Steamroller new apu variety.

just port a zen 3+ 6800u with rdna2 to the platform for cheap at 65w (already uses ddr5), and you'll have your justification (and then you can wait 6 more months for big apu plus big cache 7800x3d!)

 

[Theinsanegamer]

This is our new reality. Covid changed the world forever.
Goodbye affordable computer upgrades.
I have already accepted that my next decent PC will cost at the very least 2000 dollars.
This sucks and this is the reality.

*literally sub $100 motherboards and $120 6 core CPUs are available*

I think you may need to stop huffing the doomium there.

 

[waclark]

I haven't been following the Zen 4 launch closely. Is it because the cpu prices are to high, or the combo price of the new setups? I know they run hot but that is the new norm for all high end cpu's now.

Both. Intel comparable CPUs are coming in at lower prices. Building a Zen 4 "budget" system hasn't been possible until recently due to no low cost mobos and expensive DDR5 memory. There are now ~$200 boards so you can save some $$ with those and some places have deals which include free DDR5 RAM.

 

[AlaskaGuy]

It won't be any different for Raptor Lake until the release of the B670 boards and locked cpu's and that won't happen until after Jan. 1st.

 

[Shaitan]

X570E from Asus had 8 hdds, dual LAN and supports 128 GB RAM. The newx670 has 6 hdds support, one LAN and supports the same amount of ram. Why would I upgrade?! I have 128 gb now. The cost for DDR5 is ludicrously high, the mobos are now more expensive while offering less connectivity than before. Ok, will wait for 2025. Also, 4090 is insanely priced. My 3080 will do just fine for the next 5 years then.

 

[wiyosaya]

I have never had to spend more than $200 for a mobo and I have a X570 motherboard currently. I get they add some additional items like better VRM's and higher speed wired internet but all these $300+ mobo are crazy and they are not for me.

I bought an X570 mb for $180 in 2020 (it was for a system I built for my Wife). That price is why it is so disappointing for me to see X670E and X670 MBs insanely priced.

I can't remember which manufacturer it was, but I think I saw an X670E MB on Amazon from a third-party seller for $1,500 and all I could think was yeah, right. As it was, the their-party seller was scalping because I saw the exact MB elsewhere for $1,000 and even at that "discount" all I thought was "yeah, right". NFW I'll pay that price for a MB.

As I see it, there are no features on the current crop of X670/X670E MBs that warrant that kind of pricing.

 

[punctualturn]

As I see it, there are no features on the current crop of X670/X670E MBs that warrant that kind of pricing.

Hence why I keep asking, who is guilty of these crazy prices, AMD or the mobos makers and why are they so high?

 

[Neatfeatguy]

Sales will most likely pick up next year with the 3D chips.

All I know is if AMD put out a 5900X3D, I'd be willing to buy one. As it stands, though, I'm content with my 5900x and I have zero plans to upgrade anything unless I have to due to hardware failure.

I don't know what these tech companies are expecting the world to continue to buy and constantly upgrade when folks have just started getting their hands on the previous generation of products due to "shortages".

I've had my 5900X for 1.5 years now. No way in hel| I'm going to be upgrading to a new socket, MB and RAM. I'm sure many people are now in that category, for example: They started out with maybe a 3600 and upgraded to something better for AM4 socket and the improvement to jump to AM5 just isn't enough to entice people. Coupled with the higher costs of things and the looming recession (some say it's here, some say it's not here yet, but close). People just aren't looking to drop tons of money on this stuff right now.

It's looking like this current gen of CPUs and GPUs might be kind of a bust for these companies. I guess we just wait and see.

 

[AlaskaGuy]

Hence why I keep asking, who is guilty of these crazy prices, AMD or the mobos makers and why are they so high?

AMD should have offered a DDR4 version of it's boards imo.

 

[doolybird]

The "cheapest" B650 MB in Australia is still north of $350 AUD......this was the price of a premium MB just a year or two ago. The mean price of an AM5 MB is around 650-750..this doesnt even factor in DDR5 .Im perfectly happy with my x570 and 5950x system......looks like ill have to keep for a few more years yet....

 

[hahahanoobs]

Times are tough. AM4 is just too enticing. In Canada it's almost on par with the US in regards to pricing. 5800X for $299 and 5600G for $149 for example. 5800X3D discounted $70 already.
GPU pricing is a completely different story unfortunately.

 

[punctualturn]

AMD should have offered a DDR4 version of it's boards imo.

Personally, I think it was a good move to start fresh with DDR5, but the option for DDR4 would have been great.
Still, I dont think thats the only reason why these mobos are so expensive, I mean, intel started using them since last year (I think) so its not something completely new.

 

[kapital98]

Perhaps recession was the wrong word, but consumer confidence feels relevant to me. I agree it's not about declines in jobs or GDP. It's about the higher prices everywhere you turn. I'm not an economist, but this is the theme I hear over and over in casual conversations and mainstream media.

Agreed. Consumer confidence tends to be a good leading indicator on economic activity and it's something the FED looks at closely. This is a really good, in-depth article but it's those little comments (with no citation) that get to me. Tim's work is always top-notch.