Argument over video game leads teenager to shoot and kill friend

[cliffordcooley]

Here is an example of how stupid gun laws are in the states. I've felony child support charges. therefor I'm not supposed to own or use a gun or knife. Seriously I lost the right to defend myself all because I made a choice not to reward a ***** for leaving me. I made this choice all because she told me child support would be forced when she left. Now she is in prison for child abuse and drug charges. And I have custody of my youngest son after receiving felony child support, which prevents me from owning a gun. You will not see me in the free world without a knife. I don't for the moment have a use for a gun but I do have a use for a knife. And if I ever do find myself needed to use a gun, these stupid charges will not stop me from my needs.

However these charges will make my penalties greater, should I ever get caught. And that is all because of a non-gun related Felony charge. That is just how stupid any other gun regulation will be. Regulations will not solve anything.

 

[captaincranky]

This comment is less a retort on topic, rather it's a flag of defeatism. Just because you don't care, don't try to pin it as if other's don't. Not everyone is so desensitized at the loss of human life that it no longer phases them.

As I stated numerous times, I'm not trying to strive from an ideal such as saving everyone, merely common sense gun laws.

"So, enough of your nonsense. People flew airliners into the World Trade Center, it's time to outlaw guns. That's makes sense, to,you maybe, not so much the rest of us."

wtf, no one said this at all?

I have a better idea for your future happiness. Drop out of Techspot and join the Peace Corps. Put your personal comfort where your mouth is,. and take a half dozen of these other whiny liberals with you.

We have plenty of gun laws So called, "law abiding citizens", disobey them for their personal gain..

You want a new iPhone, but things are a little tight? No problem. Just buy a gun, pretend to lose it, then sell it to the next hoodlum you run across, for twice what you paid for it.

If that doesn't work for you, try re-embracing family values, and try raising some sane children for a change.

You constantly talk out both sides of your mouth. You don't want big government, but you want government to take of every detail of your life. You don;t want Google following you constantly, yet you buy "Alexa", for every room of your mortgaged until 50 years after your death house..

BTW, those banks which were "too big to fail", were just doing what comes naturally, taking people's money.

What went wrong,is it the fact people are so gullible and stupid, they're arrogant enough to think you can actually buy a house you can hold on to, for a $100.00 down, against a $500,000.00 purchase price. Didn't read that "balloon payment clause"? whose own damned dumb fault is that?

So, toddle along and write your own gun laws, and live by them. Just don't try to force them on the rest of the USA's people. Most of us can still read: "and the right for people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged". Just don't try to float that past the people in the hood. They're still living in the "United Sates of You Scriminatin' Against Us, So's We Ca Do Whatever we Want".

 

[captaincranky]

@cliffordcooley Hey Cliff, are those charges Federal? Because if not, and the issue has been settled, there's ca slim chance you might be able to have vthem bexponged.

BTW, don't answer this post, you don't need everybody here knowing your business. Me, you wonder? I'm old and getting forgetful.

 

[Boilerhog146]

All the regs ,solve nothing here . the government registry we had for years ,was scrapped because it didn't reduce gun crime one bit..created a huge backlog ,and computer system and offices full of people, costing millions ,affecting only legitimate owners.

I can go to T.O. Calgary ,or Edmonton .or any major city and buy a handgun,off the street ,that most likely came from the u.s. Regs won't change that fact.

even the system we have now ,honest owners abide by the rules ,crooks could care less.still have guns killing people on the street.

so go ahead down there regulate ,and see for yourself ,disarm the nation ,you will collect all the legit firearms, but the crooks will still have guns and gun crimes will still happen. oh and you will create a whole lot more dissidents .and criminals in the process.better build some more prisons ,your gonna need them.

 

[Evernessince]

Here is an example of how stupid gun laws are in the states. I've felony child support charges. therefor I'm not supposed to own or use a gun or knife. Seriously I lost the right to defend myself all because I made a choice not to reward a ***** for leaving me. I made this choice all because she told me child support would be forced when she left. Now she is in prison for child abuse and drug charges. And I have custody of my youngest son after receiving felony child support, which prevents me from owning a gun. You will not see me in the free world without a knife. I don't for the moment have a use for a gun but I do have a use for a knife. And if I ever do find myself needed to use a gun, these stupid charges will not stop me from my needs.

However these charges will make my penalties greater, should I ever get caught. And that is all because of a non-gun related Felony charge. That is just how stupid any other gun regulation will be. Regulations will not solve anything.

Obviously she did something wrong but in order to get felony child support charges, you have to willfully fail to pay child support for at least 1 year for a misdemeanor and at the 2 year mark it's bumped up to a criminal felony. Given that you stated you had a felony, it's 2 years unless you live in a state with specific laws in this regard. Your child is more important than any feelings. If she wasn't using the child support for it's intended purpose, log the date/time and incident details. Recorded statements from the child can help, pictures from your phone as well. I know this likely doesn't mean much coming from an online comment but it's hard to do the right thing. Does your state offer pardons? I know that california and new york both have forums you can submit to get your gun rights back. It's also worth checking if there is a time limit. Domestic violence charges limit your ability to get a gun for 10 years, but your case as you mentioned it isn't of a violent nature.

I have a better idea for your future happiness. Drop out of Techspot and join the Peace Corps. Put your personal comfort where your mouth is,. and take a half dozen of these other whiny liberals with you.

We have plenty of gun laws So called, "law abiding citizens", disobey them for their personal gain..

You want a new iPhone, but things are a little tight? No problem. Just buy a gun, pretend to lose it, then sell it to the next hoodlum you run across, for twice what you paid for it.

If that doesn't work for you, try re-embracing family values, and try raising some sane children for a change.

You constantly talk out both sides of your mouth. You don't want big government, but you want government to take of every detail of your life. You don;t want Google following you constantly, yet you buy "Alexa", for every room of your mortgaged until 50 years after your death house..

BTW, those banks which were "too big to fail", were just doing what comes naturally, taking people's money.

What went wrong,is it the fact people are so gullible and stupid, they're arrogant enough to think you can actually buy a house you can hold on to, for a $100.00 down, against a $500,000.00 purchase price. Didn't read that "balloon payment clause"? whose own damned dumb fault is that?

So, toddle along and write your own gun laws, and live by them. Just don't try to force them on the rest of the USA's people. Most of us can still read: "and the right for people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged". Just don't try to float that past the people in the hood. They're still living in the "United Sates of You Scriminatin' Against Us, So's We Ca Do Whatever we Want".

I don't like Apple, I don't buy smart speakers, and I didn't support the bank bail out. I'm conservative financially and if you'd ask my opinion on the budget it's way overboard.

 

[Evernessince]

All the regs ,solve nothing here . the government registry we had for years ,was scrapped because it didn't reduce gun crime one bit..created a huge backlog ,and computer system and offices full of people, costing millions ,affecting only legitimate owners.

even the system we have now ,honest owners abide by the rules ,crooks could care less.still have guns killing people on the street.

so go ahead down there regulate ,and see for yourself ,disarm the nation ,you will collect all the legit firearms, but the crooks will still have guns and gun crimes will still happen. oh and you will create a whole lot more dissidents .and criminals in the process.better build some more prisons ,your gonna need them.

Once again, no one is asking to disarm the nation.

I also clearly pointed out in another post that "crooks could care less" is patently false

Here's that link again: http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/papers/CPP-EvalPolicyEval-2003.pdf

"They both show sharp decreases in the observed rates of firearm deaths immediately following the implementation of gun reform in two countries. There is no way to reconcile this stark empirical reality with the argument that “criminals don’t obey laws.” Clearly, some criminals obey some laws some of the time; this is the nature of incentive explicit in law enforcement. Even at the margins, this is valuable."

"The statement that “criminals do not follow laws” is true for the same reason it’s completely irrelevant to a substantive discussion on gun reform– it’s a tautology. It says exactly nothing about the proper course of action a society should take to improve social outcomes.

Definitionally, criminals don’t follow laws. This is no more a meaningful statement about social realities than the observation that dogs bark or cats meow, so it is baffling that gun proponents view this as an acceptable rejoinder in political debate.

Though it may seem like such an obvious point may not need mentioning, it has become increasingly popular among those who oppose gun reform to argue that such legislation only hurts law-abiding citizens, making it more difficult for innocent civilians to get the guns they need to defend themselves. Criminals, after all, don’t obey the laws that burden law-abiding citizens. I will term this position the lawbreaker paradox—a paradox because it axiomatically reinforces the idea that laws, though created with the intent to improve social outcomes, hurt the people who follow them.

The paradox is as follows:

1. Law-abiding citizens obey the law
2. Criminals are lawbreakers, and thus do not obey the law
3. Laws impose restrictions on the behavior of only those that follow them
4. Laws, therefore, only hurt law-abiding citizens

Without exception, every law could be refuted with the lawbreaker’s paradox, and societies would swiftly descend into anarchy if it weren’t for reasonable policymakers. Laws against rape, murder, and theft, for example, are rarely followed by rapists, murderers, and thieves, but the fact that such people exist in society is the reason behind such regulations in the first place.

Among gun advocates forwarding this line of argument, there seems to be a serious lapse in moral intuition that privileges expediency over human lives. To think that the minor inconvenience of gun reforms such as background checks, waiting periods, and assault weapon bans is more burdensome than the death of thousands of innocent civilians each year (which such reforms seek to redress) reflects a miscalibrated sense of what matters in the world."


"After all, when gun advocates say that they are being ‘hurt’ by gun control, let’s be clear what the actual implication of this statement is: my right to not be bothered in the least by regulation outweighs the right to life for thousands of innocents who die in the absence of said regulation. Not only can such gun reforms reduce the number of homicides, but there is very little controversy about the tremendous effect they would have at[URL='http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/03/suicides-vs-handgun-background-checks'] reducing suicides. So, the belief that laws aimed at saving lives “hurt law-abiding citizens” is completely incompatible with any sane definition of right and wrong."[/URL]
http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/papers/CPP-EvalPolicyEval-2003.pdf
If laws didn't work, there would be no such thing modern society. Laws deter criminals, of that there is data everywhere.

 

[cliffordcooley]

@cliffordcooley Hey Cliff, are those charges Federal?

I honestly don't know.

 

[captaincranky]

Once again, no one is asking to disarm the nation.

I also clearly pointed out in another post that "crooks could care less" is patently false

Here's that link again: http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/papers/CPP-EvalPolicyEval-2003.pdf

"They both show sharp decreases in the observed rates of firearm deaths immediately following the implementation of gun reform in two countries. There is no way to reconcile this stark empirical reality with the argument that “criminals don’t obey laws.” Clearly, some criminals obey some laws some of the time; this is the nature of incentive explicit in law enforcement. Even at the margins, this is valuable."

"The statement that “criminals do not follow laws” is true for the same reason it’s completely irrelevant to a substantive discussion on gun reform– it’s a tautology. It says exactly nothing about the proper course of action a society should take to improve social outcomes.

Definitionally, criminals don’t follow laws. This is no more a meaningful statement about social realities than the observation that dogs bark or cats meow, so it is baffling that gun proponents view this as an acceptable rejoinder in political debate.

Though it may seem like such an obvious point may not need mentioning, it has become increasingly popular among those who oppose gun reform to argue that such legislation only hurts law-abiding citizens, making it more difficult for innocent civilians to get the guns they need to defend themselves. Criminals, after all, don’t obey the laws that burden law-abiding citizens. I will term this position the lawbreaker paradox—a paradox because it axiomatically reinforces the idea that laws, though created with the intent to improve social outcomes, hurt the people who follow them.

The paradox is as follows:

1. 
   
   
   • Law-abiding citizens obey the law
   • Criminals are lawbreakers, and thus do not obey the law
   • Laws impose restrictions on the behavior of only those that follow them
   • Laws, therefore, only hurt law-abiding citizens

Without exception, every law could be refuted with the lawbreaker’s paradox, and societies would swiftly descend into anarchy if it weren’t for reasonable policymakers. Laws against rape, murder, and theft, for example, are rarely followed by rapists, murderers, and thieves, but the fact that such people exist in society is the reason behind such regulations in the first place.

Among gun advocates forwarding this line of argument, there seems to be a serious lapse in moral intuition that privileges expediency over human lives. To think that the minor inconvenience of gun reforms such as background checks, waiting periods, and assault weapon bans is more burdensome than the death of thousands of innocent civilians each year (which such reforms seek to redress) reflects a miscalibrated sense of what matters in the world."


"After all, when gun advocates say that they are being ‘hurt’ by gun control, let’s be clear what the actual implication of this statement is: my right to not be bothered in the least by regulation outweighs the right to life for thousands of innocents who die in the absence of said regulation. Not only can such gun reforms reduce the number of homicides, but there is very little controversy about the tremendous effect they would have at reducing suicides. So, the belief that laws aimed at saving lives “hurt law-abiding citizens” is completely incompatible with any sane definition of right and wrong."
If laws didn't work, there would be no such thing modern society. Laws deter criminals, of that there is data everywhere.

Oh goody, more lecturing. BTW, I stopped responding to you, I just happened to quote you when offering a few observation about contemporary culture in general. So that was, as rthey say, "the royal you".

BTW, no human is innocent, and "all men must die". "Homo sapiens sapiens", can be looked at a couple of ways, we're either the "wise ones", or first cousin to the chimpanzee. The latter being closer to the truth.

In the meantime, why not go back to worrying about everybody and everything by yourself? You know, the whole, "weeping and gnashing of teeth", but do it in private. Some of us grow weary of the clatter.l

 

[MUMMZ]

I think that some of these "video game leads to" articles are a little sensational...there is probably much more to the whole story...he could of messed around with the dude at school, stole his lunch, bullied him, stole his girlfriend...I doubt a simple basketball game or an argument about the actual game could of caused all of this to happen...I wish main stream media could do a little more investigative journalism to discover more about these stories before they publish potential "click baity" articles...and no offense to any authors of this article, but this just seems to be the way mainstream media operates

 

[Evernessince]

In the meantime, why not go back to worrying about everybody and everything by yourself? You know, the whole, "weeping and gnashing of teeth", but do it in private. Some of us grow weary of the clatter.l

The same is true for you through no? If you didn't care enough to type your counter-opinion, you wouldn't have posted at all. I can appreciate the fact that you are willing to voice yourself here, as apathy is worse than saying nothing at all. I'm not a fan of the "safe spaces" line of thinking though.

 

[Boilerhog146]

Once again, no one is asking to disarm the nation.

I also clearly pointed out in another post that "crooks could care less" is patently false

Here's that link again: http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/papers/CPP-EvalPolicyEval-2003.pdf

"They both show sharp decreases in the observed rates of firearm deaths immediately following the implementation of gun reform in two countries. There is no way to reconcile this stark empirical reality with the argument that “criminals don’t obey laws.” Clearly, some criminals obey some laws some of the time; this is the nature of incentive explicit in law enforcement. Even at the margins, this is valuable."

"The statement that “criminals do not follow laws” is true for the same reason it’s completely irrelevant to a substantive discussion on gun reform– it’s a tautology. It says exactly nothing about the proper course of action a society should take to improve social outcomes.

Definitionally, criminals don’t follow laws. This is no more a meaningful statement about social realities than the observation that dogs bark or cats meow, so it is baffling that gun proponents view this as an acceptable rejoinder in political debate.

Though it may seem like such an obvious point may not need mentioning, it has become increasingly popular among those who oppose gun reform to argue that such legislation only hurts law-abiding citizens, making it more difficult for innocent civilians to get the guns they need to defend themselves. Criminals, after all, don’t obey the laws that burden law-abiding citizens. I will term this position the lawbreaker paradox—a paradox because it axiomatically reinforces the idea that laws, though created with the intent to improve social outcomes, hurt the people who follow them.

The paradox is as follows:

1. 
   
   
   • Law-abiding citizens obey the law
   • Criminals are lawbreakers, and thus do not obey the law
   • Laws impose restrictions on the behavior of only those that follow them
   • Laws, therefore, only hurt law-abiding citizens

Without exception, every law could be refuted with the lawbreaker’s paradox, and societies would swiftly descend into anarchy if it weren’t for reasonable policymakers. Laws against rape, murder, and theft, for example, are rarely followed by rapists, murderers, and thieves, but the fact that such people exist in society is the reason behind such regulations in the first place.

Among gun advocates forwarding this line of argument, there seems to be a serious lapse in moral intuition that privileges expediency over human lives. To think that the minor inconvenience of gun reforms such as background checks, waiting periods, and assault weapon bans is more burdensome than the death of thousands of innocent civilians each year (which such reforms seek to redress) reflects a miscalibrated sense of what matters in the world."


"After all, when gun advocates say that they are being ‘hurt’ by gun control, let’s be clear what the actual implication of this statement is: my right to not be bothered in the least by regulation outweighs the right to life for thousands of innocents who die in the absence of said regulation. Not only can such gun reforms reduce the number of homicides, but there is very little controversy about the tremendous effect they would have at reducing suicides. So, the belief that laws aimed at saving lives “hurt law-abiding citizens” is completely incompatible with any sane definition of right and wrong."
If laws didn't work, there would be no such thing modern society. Laws deter criminals, of that there is data everywhere.

I read in some post in this thread that china, india,austrailia, Europe,mexico have lots of gun bans and restrictions,some posts view total gun bans as the way to go.and you give them a like.so you agree with that.
yet people are still killing people ,and with guns ,
and here everyone has access ,even teens can take the hunting dog and a shotgun and go hunting. yet very few people are killed with guns. I and many friends of mine started very young with a bb gun.. join cadets , getting education and experience.

people should raise their kids properly, with education and experience.starting as early as possible.rather than trying to protect them from learning about things. censoring everything they do ,everything they see.and watch,the kids grow up ignorant.knowing shite about shite.too many kids grow up in a daycare.are then shoved out into the world ,some do believe that removing guns from society will be the fixall that fixes all ,B.S.

and your link references all laws ,not just gun laws .most laws are indeed necessary, highway laws help to determine who has right of way, very much needed .and naturally a criminal will obey laws as he/she sees fit, probably has a trunk full with guns and Drugs,don't wanna get pulled over . common sense prevails ,very rarely.

 

[cliffordcooley]

rather than trying to protect them from learning about things. censoring everything they do ,everything they see.and watch,the kids grow up ignorant.knowing shite about shite.too many kids grow up in a daycare.are then shoved out into the world ,some do believe that removing guns from society will be the fixall that fixes all ,B.S.

precisely

 

[captaincranky]

The same is true for you through no? If you didn't care enough to type your counter-opinion, you wouldn't have posted at all. I can appreciate the fact that you are willing to voice yourself here, as apathy is worse than saying nothing at all. I'm not a fan of the "safe spaces" line of thinking though.

The destruction of the American family unit is responsible for most of this nonsense. Children are spoiled asnd entitled. The old sayid is, "locks are only to keep honest people honest And so it is with laws, "Laws only keep law abiding people law abiding".

So, since we already have gun laws including background checks, which you keep claiming "don't exist". More legislation won't help.

Now run along, and go try and buy a hand gun from the first gun store you come to. If the store operator doesn't simply hand you a pistol, no questions asked,please shut up

This generation's sense of entitlement and self importance is beyond belief, way, way beyond belief.

Assuming you cure every disease you come across, figure out how to repair every genetic monster that inbred populations can produce, in another 50 years, people will be so tightly packed, if one person farts, the dozen standing next to him will gun him (or her) down. And a base model Tesla will likely cost a half million dollars, so don't imaging Elon Musk is going to solve the world's energy issues.

Now, I really am sick and tired of listening to you. You plan on whining on and on, about issues you have a very limited grasp of. All this bullsh!t of school shootings, stems from improper socialization of individuals. Something that parents today, can't face. Nobody in this generation, seems to be able to accept responsibility for their own deficiencies, or incompetence, at raising children or at instilling traditional values in them. Then, you stand there and scratch your head and wonder what went wrong. After which, you stand there begging the big government, which you claim you don't want, despise, and invades your privacy, to bail your thumb sucking a**es out.

After all, what could a doddering 70 year old, who has survived 4 generations of this dreck you're trying to pass off as human beings, possibly know that you don't?

 

[Evernessince]

I read in some post in this thread that china, india,austrailia, Europe,mexico have lots of gun bans and restrictions,some posts view total gun bans as the way to go.and you give them a like.so you agree with that.
yet people are still killing people ,and with guns ,
and here everyone has access ,even teens can take the hunting dog and a shotgun and go hunting. yet very few people are killed with guns. I and many friends of mine started very young with a bb gun.. join cadets , getting education and experience.

people should raise their kids properly, with education and experience.starting as early as possible.rather than trying to protect them from learning about things. censoring everything they do ,everything they see.and watch,the kids grow up ignorant.knowing shite about shite.too many kids grow up in a daycare.are then shoved out into the world ,some do believe that removing guns from society will be the fixall that fixes all ,B.S.

and your link references all laws ,not just gun laws .most laws are indeed necessary, highway laws help to determine who has right of way, very much needed .and naturally a criminal will obey laws as he/she sees fit, probably has a trunk full with guns and Drugs,don't wanna get pulled over . common sense prevails ,very rarely.

You literally just conceded my point

"highway laws help to determine who has right of way, very much needed"

Highway laws operate in the SAME WAY gun laws do. They prohibit an activity to save lives. What, do you have a double standard. Here let me take your argument and apply it: "Oh why even have highway laws when Criminals will just ignore it!"

Oh SNAP!

You can apply this logic to ANY law that prohibits activity to save lives, it's called the Lawbreaker paradox. I linked it from an article you failed to read.

precisely

Yep, I'm sure a bullet is teaching them real quick. Brilliant. It's always funny seeing the generation responsible for a future generation complain about the way they where raised.

 

[Evernessince]

The destruction of the American family unit is responsible for most of this nonsense. Children are spoiled asnd entitled. The old sayid is, "locks are only to keep honest people honest And so it is with laws, "Laws only keep law abiding people law abiding".

So, since we already have gun laws including background checks, which you keep claiming "don't exist". More legislation won't help.

Now run along, and go try and buy a hand gun from the first gun store you come to. If the store operator doesn't simply hand you a pistol, no questions asked,please shut up

This generation's sense of entitlement and self importance is beyond belief, way, way beyond belief.

Assuming you cure every disease you come across, figure out how to repair every genetic monster that inbred populations can produce, in another 50 years, people will be so tightly packed, if one person farts, the dozen standing next to him will gun him (or her) down. And a base model Tesla will likely cost a half million dollars, so don't imaging Elon Musk is going to solve the world's energy issues.

Now, I really am sick and tired of listening to you. You plan on whining on and on, about issues you have a very limited grasp of. All this bullsh!t of school shootings, stems from improper socialization of individuals. Something that parents today, can't face. Nobody in this generation, seems to be able to accept responsibility for their own deficiencies, or incompetence, at raising children or at instilling traditional values in them. Then, you stand there and scratch your head and wonder what went wrong. After which, you stand there begging the big government, which you claim you don't want, despise, and invades your privacy, to bail your thumb sucking a**es out.

After all, what could a doddering 70 year old, who has survived 4 generations of this dreck you're trying to pass off as human beings, possibly know that you don't?

Hubris stemming from age does not equal anything material.

Got two words for you Captin, Lawbreaker paradox. There is significant data proving that Criminals do indeed obey some laws. Burglers are burglers and not murderers because they choose to not break guns laws. This, aside from the fact that simply having laws in place have a deterrent factor. I doubt you can debate that laws don't have a deterrent fact, just like when your mom threatened to belt you if you got into the cookie jar. This is beyond well documented, the determinant affect of laws. Australia saw a sharp drop in gun related deaths following in enactment of strict gun laws.

I don't want to hear about other people not being able to self reflect Captain, that's Hypocrisy. Other people, including the children you so often mock, want improvement. What are you doing?

 

[cliffordcooley]

Yep, I'm sure a bullet is teaching them real quick. Brilliant. It's always funny seeing the generation responsible for a future generation complain about the way they where raised.

Talk about ignoring the evidence! That's all you are doing through out this entire thread.

It is pointless to waste more time with you on this topic.

I stick by my previous comment. You are not listening to any of the evidence anyone presents. You might as well have horse blinders on. You obviously think telling someone they can't have a gun, will stop them from using one. I (by my own submission) said I wouldn't let regulations get in my way, if I so felt a desire to use one. And even if guns were banned, there would still be a black market for them (just like drugs). You are a troll, that is all there is to it. You can't possibly be that naive.

 

[captaincranky]

Hubris stemming from age does not equal anything material.

Got two words for you Captin, Lawbreaker paradox. There is significant data proving that Criminals do indeed obey some laws. Burglers are burglers and not murderers because they choose to not break guns laws. This, aside from the fact that simply having laws in place have a deterrent factor. I doubt you can debate that laws don't have a deterrent fact, just like when your mom threatened to belt you if you got into the cookie jar. This is beyond well documented, the determinant affect of laws. Australia saw a sharp drop in gun related deaths following in enactment of strict gun laws.

I don't want to hear about other people not being able to self reflect Captain, that's Hypocrisy. Other people, including the children you so often mock, want improvement. What are you doing?

Suffering through listening to you, ad infinitum.

The reason burglars don't use guns, is because they don';t need them.

If you understood the federal sentencing guidelines, (which you obviously do not), a crime has a base value in points, which translates to months of sentence. So, you walk into a bank, hand the teller a note demanding money. "X" points. For everything you do after that, points are added. Bring a gun, more points. Pull it out, more points,. Fire it, more points still.

Professional criminals, know what sentences they can expect for a given crime. They also know what enhancements they can expect. which is why burglars don't bring guns to a break in.

Murder as a primary offense, has an entirely different character. It's either personal, or an emotional meltdown..

Now we've had war since Vietnam. My generation was certainly not "densitized to violence", no9 is any generation since.

Over and over, you persist in saying we need more gun laws. Yet, you won't go out and try to buy a handgun, to prove yourself right.

So, I hear Australia's nice this time of year, and you'll love the gun laws.

 

[Evernessince]

Talk about ignoring the evidence! That's all you are doing through out this entire thread.
I stick by my previous comment. You are not listening to any of the evidence anyone presents. You might as well have horse blinders on. You obviously think telling someone they can't have a gun, will stop them from using one. I (by my own submission) said I wouldn't let regulations get in my way, if I so felt a desire to use one. And even if guns were banned, there would still be a black market for them (just like drugs). You are a troll, that is all there is to it. You can't possibly be that naive.

/facepalm

And you have contributed what to this conversation? 0 links. That's what I thought. I've contributed at least 8 unique sources with data. Please, this is beyond funny.

Suffering through listening to you, ad infinitum.

The reason burglars don't use guns, is because they don';t need them.

If you understood the federal sentencing guidelines, (which you obviously do not), a crime has a base value in points, which translates to months of sentence. So, you walk into a bank, hand the teller a note demanding money. "X" points. For everything you do after that, points are added. Bring a gun, more points. Pull it out, more points,. Fire it, more points still.

Professional criminals, know what sentences they can expect for a given crime. They also know what enhancements they can expect. which is why burglars don't bring guns to a break in.

Murder as a primary offense, has an entirely different character. It's either personal, or an emotional meltdown..

Now we've had war since Vietnam. My generation was certainly not "densitized to violence", no9 is any generation since.

Over and over, you persist in saying we need more gun laws. Yet, you won't go out and try to buy a handgun, to prove yourself right.

So, I hear Australia's nice this time of year, and you'll love the gun laws.

"The reason burglars don't use guns, is because they don';t need them."

But you guys were claiming Criminals used guns. Guess not.

Ohh, insulting me before trying to explain something. What a good idea to get someone to listen /s

Great, you just explained the deterrent affect I was talking to you about. So if I burgler isn't bringing a gun because of laws against it, then the laws are obviously effective. By extension of your own comment, other deterrents should also work with gun laws. We, I shouldn't say "should", I've already provided proof that it has worked in the past in America and every other 1st world country in the world.

 

[captaincranky]

I've already provided proof that it has worked in the past in America and every other 1st world country in the world.

In most cases, murder isn't premeditated, it's a crime of passion. Or, it's the calculated work of a disturbed mind. None of these attributes attach to a professional criminal.

Either this has become a treatise on crime in general. or we're discussing your histrionics about gun laws.

A professional burglar, and a lunatic who melts down and shoots up a school have zero in cvommon.

So, why do you insist on drawing a comparison which simply doesn't.

Where's your logic? "Burglars don't use guns so we need stronger gun laws".

Now, for the umpteenth time, either go out and prove you can buy a handgun, no questions asked, or give it a rest. You can't do that, we already have gun laws to prevent it.

 

[Evernessince]

In most cases, murder isn't premeditated, it's a crime of passion. Or, it's the calculated work of a disturbed mind. None of these attributes attach to a professional criminal.

Either this has become a treatise on crime in general. or we're discussing your histrionics about gun laws.

A professional burglar, and a lunatic who melts down and shoots up a school have zero in cvommon.

So, why do you insist on drawing a comparison which simply doesn't.

Where's your logic? "Burglars don't use guns so we need stronger gun laws".

Now, for the umpteenth time, either go out and prove you can buy a handgun, no questions asked, or give it a rest. You can't do that, we already have gun laws to prevent it.

"A professional burglar, and a lunatic who melts down and shoots up a school have zero in cvommon."

Who said anything about a professional burglar? Do you even realize how few of those there are? Complete strawman.

Burglar != Professional Burgler

Talking about plain ol every day Burglers, the logic is "Not all burglers will use guns because of the laws". Mind you that is just one example. You can apply that to the varying degrees of murder, rape, ect. You seemed determine to can the conversation into a specific obtuse example.

"Now, for the umpteenth time, either go out and prove you can buy a handgun, no questions asked, or give it a rest. You can't do that, we already have gun laws to prevent it."

Why would I need to buy a handgun when I already own 5 rifles? FYI the existence of laws says nothing about the laws themselves. I could write a law regarding the banning of peanuts and it could be a complete failure due to the language, implementation, loopholes, scope, ect. Not to mention, gun laws vary state by state. Saying that if person x can't buy a gun could mean nothing to person is state Y.

Here's a comparison of Gun laws around the world: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-gun-policy-global-comparisons

America's background checks are weak and often inaccurate, America has far less strict rules on semi-automatic and automatic weapons, states are not required to include mental health issues in any background check, Weapon enhancements that improve a weapon's lethality are much easier to obtain, ammunition isn't required to be stored safely or even separately, and more deadly assault rifles are not restricted like they are in every other 1st world country. I'm sure I'm missing a few more points as well.

You're argument that "laws exist" is about as strong as a wet paper tissue.

 

[captaincranky]

"A professional burglar, and a lunatic who melts down and shoots up a school have zero in cvommon."

Who said anything about a professional burglar? Do you even realize how few of those there are? Complete strawman.

Burglar != Professional Burgler

Talking about plain ol every day Burglers, the logic is "Not all burglers will use guns because of the laws". Mind you that is just one example. You can apply that to the varying degrees of murder, rape, ect. You seemed determine to can the conversation into a specific obtuse example.

"Now, for the umpteenth time, either go out and prove you can buy a handgun, no questions asked, or give it a rest. You can't do that, we already have gun laws to prevent it."

Why would I need to buy a handgun when I already own 5 rifles? FYI the existence of laws says nothing about the laws themselves. I could write a law regarding the banning of peanuts and it could be a complete failure due to the language, implementation, loopholes, scope, ect. Not to mention, gun laws vary state by state. Saying that if person x can't buy a gun could mean nothing to person is state Y.

Here's a comparison of Gun laws around the world: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-gun-policy-global-comparisons

America's background checks are weak and often inaccurate, America has far less strict rules on semi-automatic and automatic weapons, states are not required to include mental health issues in any background check, Weapon enhancements that improve a weapon's lethality are much easier to obtain, ammunition isn't required to be stored safely or even separately, and more deadly assault rifles are not restricted like they are in every other 1st world country. I'm sure I'm missing a few more points as well.

You're argument that "laws exist" is about as strong as a wet paper tissue.

Like I said, this is a social issue. American society is collapsing

The only thing which sounds like it might make you happy, would be to repeal the 2nd Amendment, and put all gun manufacturers and their employees to the guillotine.

So, background checks don't work, but you don't have the stones to try to test that. That's my take away from your latest round of bluster.

II'm a straw man because you already have guns? Really.

People aren't obeying the laws we already have, so let's change the US to a police state.

Better you should move to Australia That way, since you're so enamored of their anti-gun legislation, you could abide by it on the way in.

I'd be willing to bet, they would't let you on the country with your 5 rifles.. And since it would take some time for you to become naturalized, you wouldn't be able to purchase more, at least not for a few years.

And there you'd be self righteous as all hell, and completely unarmed. That would make me happy, how about you?

 

[Boilerhog146]

You literally just conceded my point

"highway laws help to determine who has right of way, very much needed"

Highway laws operate in the SAME WAY gun laws do. They prohibit an activity to save lives. What, do you have a double standard. Here let me take your argument and apply it: "Oh why even have highway laws when Criminals will just ignore it!"

Oh SNAP!

You can apply this logic to ANY law that prohibits activity to save lives, it's called the Lawbreaker paradox. I linked it from an article you failed to read.



Yep, I'm sure a bullet is teaching them real quick. Brilliant. It's always funny seeing the generation responsible for a future generation complain about the way they where raised.

I conceded nothing . a criminal will obey a law when it suits the purpose, will obey traffic laws to hide other more serious violations,

I read the information in the links ,did you?



Highway laws work the same way gun laws do.?

WRONG! highway laws restrict an activity .not prohibit. and they are to prevent Id!ots ,that got a drivers licence some how ,from crashing ,letting them know when they are in the wrong.. speed limits .stop signs,traffic lights, etc.

There are no such indicators for gun laws ,only, common sense ,responsibility,education and experience.

the criminal has No/multiple standards.so yup, I have 2 standards maybe 3 ,yours, his ,and mine.

when disobeying traffic laws , suits a criminal. he will obey nothing.or no one and will use the vehicle as a weapon also..that point has been proven.

the law breaker paradox, did you just learn a new term recently? ,your quoting from what you read again. I read it ,but I have no need to quote from it.as it doesn't apply to all laws ,some laws do make sense, some do not.. ,. its just used for the sake of argument ,go ahead, repeat your self and put the links up again.

with all the rules ,laws , prohibitions,restrictions ,a gun is still easy to go and buy, illegally. a legal gun not so easy .

Because of the laws ,I can go buy an illegal hand gun way easier than I can a legal one .I bet that still doesn't make sense to you does it?


and as I already stated. I approve of gun laws that prevent crime from happening. not that cause hardship for legit gun owners and families.

The only way to stop Bad guys with guns, is good guys with guns.

I know, more paradox .

@captaincranky , now that he has owned up to owning firearms ,I'm sure ,he is just trolling.. he probably knows that he can get an illegal handgun easier than he can get a legal one also,no law can prevent that.

Keep Trolling, its fun watching you squirm..

did you read what you just linked ?.thanks, for some proof that more gun laws don't necessarily prevent more gun violence.

 

[Evernessince]

Like I said, this is a social issue. American society is collapsing

The only thing which sounds like it might make you happy, would be to repeal the 2nd Amendment, and put all gun manufacturers and their employees to the guillotine.

So, background checks don't work, but you don't have the stones to try to test that. That's my take away from your latest round of bluster.

II'm a straw man because you already have guns? Really.

People aren't obeying the laws we already have, so let's change the US to a police state.

Better you should move to Australia That way, since you're so enamored of their anti-gun legislation, you could abide by it on the way in.

I'd be willing to bet, they would't let you on the country with your 5 rifles.. And since it would take some time for you to become naturalized, you wouldn't be able to purchase more, at least not for a few years.

And there you'd be self righteous as all hell, and completely unarmed. That would make me happy, how about you?

Going back to the hyperbolic argument I see. I've already stated multiple times that's not my stance.

Ohhh, making fun of my *assumed masculinity. Oh terrible, I'm going to faint. You've got some grade F insults and a mega tanker full of stereo-types.

So where's the part where you actually respond on topic instead of performing ad hominem attacks?

I conceded nothing . a criminal will obey a law when it suits the purpose, will obey traffic laws to hide other more serious violations,

I read the information in the links ,did you?



Highway laws work the same way gun laws do.?

WRONG! highway laws restrict an activity .not prohibit. and they are to prevent Id!ots ,that got a drivers licence some how ,from crashing ,letting them know when they are in the wrong.. speed limits .stop signs,traffic lights, etc.

There are no such indicators for gun laws ,only, common sense ,responsibility,education and experience.

the criminal has No/multiple standards.so yup, I have 2 standards maybe 3 ,yours, his ,and mine.

when disobeying traffic laws , suits a criminal. he will obey nothing.or no one and will use the vehicle as a weapon also..that point has been proven.

the law breaker paradox, did you just learn a new term recently? ,your quoting from what you read again. I read it ,but I have no need to quote from it.as it doesn't apply to all laws ,some laws do make sense, some do not.. ,. its just used for the sake of argument ,go ahead, repeat your self and put the links up again.

with all the rules ,laws , prohibitions,restrictions ,a gun is still easy to go and buy, illegally. a legal gun not so easy .

Because of the laws ,I can go buy an illegal hand gun way easier than I can a legal one .I bet that still doesn't make sense to you does it?


and as I already stated. I approve of gun laws that prevent crime from happening. not that cause hardship for legit gun owners and families.

The only way to stop Bad guys with guns, is good guys with guns.

I know, more paradox .

@captaincranky , now that he has owned up to owning firearms ,I'm sure ,he is just trolling.. he probably knows that he can get an illegal handgun easier than he can get a legal one also,no law can prevent that.

Keep Trolling, its fun watching you squirm..

did you read what you just linked ?.thanks, for some proof that more gun laws don't necessarily prevent more gun violence.

/facepalm

"Highway laws work the same way gun laws do.?

WRONG! highway laws restrict an activity .not prohibit. and they are to prevent Id!ots ,that got a drivers licence some how ,from crashing ,letting them know when they are in the wrong.. speed limits .stop signs,traffic lights, etc."

Wow, just like how guns laws restrict the use of guns. Hey and they also prevent "*****s" (as you put it) from accidental deaths You're a great friend, putting the same thing in different words.

Captain is telling me that we have guns laws and that they work and here you are telling me you can buy guns illegal more easily. Obviously both of your stories can't be correct.

"and as I already stated. I approve of gun laws that prevent crime from happening. not that cause hardship for legit gun owners and families."

Define "hardship". Does improving the background check system to cover mental illness count?

You can't quote or debate on the Lawbreaker paradox because you don't know what it is and you didn't read it. You have been ducking on replying on a point by point basis this whole time and you have not once discredited any of my sources, merely relying on personal conjecture.

A gun is easier to buy illegally than legally? Prove it.

"Keep Trolling, its fun watching you squirm.."

When you troll while calling someone else a troll. I believe you already got one of your comments deleted by the mods for making statements like these. Taking please from hurting others? That's disgusting. Make another statement like this and I will report it to the mods.

 

[captaincranky]

...[ ]...When you troll while calling someone else a troll. ...[ ]...

Most people would realize when they've hit rock bottom, but not you. The gist of that statement is, "me too, I know you are".

What's interesting to me, is the intensity and repetitiveness of everything you're saying. If this wasn't something you felt like "arguing to the death over", (pun intended). you'd be whimpering about how, "this is a tech site, this is click bait", or something similar.

What I find most interesting is how there's always plaintiff moan, about how innocents are being killed. That's really a stretch, since there's no such thing, as an innocent adult human.

In fact, some of those "innocents", might very well grow into mass shooters themselves . I mean really, somebody might tell one of those next generation pathological snowflakes, something like,, "you're weird", or maybe, "you're ugly", and the next thing you know, you've got a field full of dead bodies. It all really boils down to proper socialization of individuals, along with the instilling a proper set of operative values into each and every one of the coming generations. And boy oh boy, it sure ain't being done. Every succeeding generation which comes to pass, is less intelligent, more prone to violence, with deteriorating morals and less, well, civilized.

The simple fact of the matter is, you really can't legislate the killer instinct out of the human race, nor can you legislate to condemn the masses, for the sins of a few..

I'm going to make a big leap and presume, that you have no real stake in this, you just want to let everybody on the site know that you're a fearless "SJW".

And here's the definition of that, direct from the urban dictionary, which actually is a good source for contemporary colloquial context.

"Social Justice Warrior. A pejorative term for an individual who repeatedly and vehemently engages in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well-thought-out way, for the purpose of raising their own personal reputation. A social justice warrior, or SJW, does not necessarily strongly believe all that they say, or even care about the groups they are fighting on behalf of".

When you come right down to it, that pretty much sums up your narrative.

After all, it wasn't your friend that got shot playing a video game. It wasn't your child that got shot in Florida.

In fact, that wasn't the topic of this thread, now was it?" You just kind of threw that in here, to let everybody know how compassionate you can pretend to be. In other plainer spoken terms, you're off topic.

Somebody got shot over a video game, tough sh!t, end of story. The shooting in Florida, off topic.

 

[Boilerhog146]

Go ahead and report ,there should be a hurt feelings report available for link ,I'm sure they are reading every thing posted.I don't recall a post being deleted.I have no problem with it if they do .admin can clean up any thread they please..PLEASE.

http://www.photokami.com/Hurtfeelings.pdf

this for anyone.should be a sticky here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Zip+gun&qpvt=Zip+gun&FORM=IGRE

No Id!ot should have access to a gun ,period,bad enough they are allowed to drive,

and buying an illegal gun being easier to buy than a legal one has already been proven.I don't have to prove it again..what you want a photo of one posted ,sorry.can't help you.I can get a photo of one but I can't get photo's to upload.

Laws don't prevent accidental deaths.or there should be laws for Chainsaws ,and Hydraulic jacks, as well, people die using those .

Hardship = fees and paperwork,licence renewal, transportation for ,such, that a person that hunts for food can't really afford.and has no impact on the criminal element ,go read why Canada ,scrapped the long gun registry.norway that allready had strict gun laws .that didn't prevent a massacre,from your own link, which I did read..

I don't believe in accidental deaths.,thats like saying sh!t happens ,I don't believe that either ,people make sh!t happen through inexperience,neglect,failing to due proper diligence.ignorance. " I didn't know the gun was loaded ". never heard that before,B.S.
there are many that have guns already that should NOT. and the laws make no difference.

I never said gun laws don't work' some do, some do not. you don't comprehend very well. I APPROVE ,of some gun laws that keep guns out of the hands of anyone that shouldn't have a gun .Background checks,etc , things change.and those laws aren't working are they.

now go take your sign and stand with the rest of the protestors.I'm done here .as your just too obvious.and if Mailpup wishes to clean up a thread or so ,be my guest..