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Belkin 85c wireless router, used as an access point. Guest setup?

By glhglh
Mar 22, 2013
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  1. Our internet goes from:
    1. Comcast modem to a
    2. Dlink DIR-655
    3. To computers or through a switchbox to other parts of the house
    4. In the basement, is another switch box, and off that switchbox is,
    5. Belkin 85c Wireless router, that we use as an access point
    Works well but it says it has the ability to have a guest login, that will allow visitors to get to the internet, but are blocked from our LAN.

    I've spent hours trying to set the guest login up, the access point can be seen by a computer/etc, but when they connect, they cannot get to the internet.

    the windows 7 computers try to set up an unidentified public network.

    I'm sure there is something very simple I am missing, but I've got close to 20 hours invested in it, and need to protect my network.

    the Windows 7 notebook said that it could not connect with a "homegroup".
     
  2. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,446   +324

    Hmm; I cant find "Belkin 85c Wireless router" on the Belkin Support site - -
    Are you sure of that make/model number?
     
  3. glhglh

    glhglh TS Maniac Topic Starter Posts: 438

    I'm sorry, I was looking at the login page. I knew it is an:
    Belkin N750 Dual Band N+ Router ; Model: F9K1103

    I'm thinking that the problem is because I'm not using it as a router. I also cannot use the MAC address restriction in access point mode. but the Modems are two floors up, and we use most of the wireless devices down here.
    I read the manual, but may ha e missed it.
     
  4. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,446   +324

    Ok. Did you try the normal Infrastructure mode instead of Access Mode?

    Ignore the guest issue for now and just get the normal mode and wifi connections running.

    You will need a different Router address than the Dlink DIR-655 is using.
    If the Dlink is at 192.168.1.1, then put the Belkin at 192.168.2.1

    I am sure that systems connected to the Belkin will reach the internet, but also will not even be able ping systems on the Dlink. Prove this for yourself and the proceed to setup
    1. the normal user SSID+ Password and then
    2. the guest user SSID+ another password
     
  5. glhglh

    glhglh TS Maniac Topic Starter Posts: 438

    Actually everything works, but I have not been able to set up a "guest" wireless login (to enable a user to logon as a guest and be connected to the internet, but not be connected to, or at least have the ability to file share or communicate with other nodes in our internal network. I'm thinking the overall setup is what is preventing the Belkin from being able to use it's built in "guest" login mode (either with the page login or a system login).

    Prior to buying the Belkin last year, there was a small Netgear in the same spot. We purchased the Belkin because the Netgear was getting old, the strength of the signal was not strong enough to reach most of the basement. The Belkin reaches all of the basement, and a lot of the floor above. Specifically, without mention of the outside IP:

    1. Signal comes into house to Comcast modem with a standard Comcast IP (17x.xxx.xxx.xxx).

    2. Then from Comcast modem IP (10.1.xx.1) to Dlink set as the standard Dlink LAN 192.168.1.1).

    3. DHCP is set to off on the Comcast modem, the Dlink, and all other places on the network that have DHCP capability.
    4. We have an old WIN Server 2003 set to static XXX.XXX.X.5, the server's DHCP is on, and it assigns the IP addresses for all devices on the network except for two VOIP phones (set to static xxx.xxx.x.201&202).

    5. when we bought the Belkin, the idea was to use the "MAC" address only security (that we used on the small wireless router that was at that spot for several years), but I found that I could not use that method, when it was set to MAC address mode.

    6. It is not often, but usually once a month or so, there is a guest in the house that we want to allow internet access, without LAN access.

    7. We set the Belkin to static xxx.xxx.x.254.

    8. all wireless devices that are connected to the Belkin, in either the 5ghz or the 2.4ghz using a password that was generated by the Belkin. have access to the internet, but also our LAN.

    9. what I have been unable to do is set up a guest login, using the Belkin's guest mode with the initial SSID (belkin85.guest) and the Belkin password from the label on the bottom of the modem. I’m able to connect to the Belkin, but without connecting to the LAN (the majority of devices on the network are wired devices). the device attempting to use that guest login password, is connected to the Belkin but cannot connect to the LAN, and it tries to set up a public network (which we don't want), but the public network cannot get to the internet.

    I was told that having a wireless router, in the system that also acted as a DHCP using the 192.168.2.1 would not work. I need the access point on the system (the Belkin at this point), with a static ip address using the Dlink LAN protocols, and our server as DHCP, or do I.

    The system listed above has worked for 9 years, and even though the old wireless router only had WEP, we limited wireless access to MAC devices with MAC addresses that had been entered into the wireless.

    I would be happy with a blend:

    1. Most wireless devices (I.e. those that connect frequently) can connect only if their MAC addresses are recognized,

    2. A guest login, using the Belkin password, or the pushbutton method, or a thumb drive setup, but devices using this method have not access (in or out) to our LAN.

    I’m beginning to think that the overall network setup (effectively 9 years old, but using new routers/access points with newer security capabilities and built-in modes) limits our ability to use the newer capabilities of these devices.

    the Comcast modem has four possible "out" LAN RJ-45 plugs, but we only use the one to the Dlink. The Dlink, also has 4 or 5 "out" LAN plugs, the access point downstairs is connected through the upstairs switchbox (I think this is a 10/100/1000 NetGear), and has 5 devices connected to it (4 wired computers or printers, and the Belkin wireless).

    I appreciate your help and knowledge and am asking if you have an idea about how to have:

    1. all current "wired" devices continue to work,

    2. a secure internal wireless connection for wireless devices we want to have access to our LAN, and

    3. a wireless connection (guest) that has a connection to the internet, but is blocked from the LAN.

    I think what is happening now is the guest I’m trying to setup either has LAN availability, or when I try to limit the LAN availability, the LAN blocks it from getting out of the system to the internet.



    Please forgive me if I use the wrong technical terms.

     
  6. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,446   +324

    That's a ton of info :)

    I'm going to tell you what I would do, which I believe would allow the Belkin to use its Guest feature. If all else fails, we can also use the firewall to block guests (that's what I do with one router).

    Wire Modem->Dlink --> Belkin

    • disable DHCP in the modem and set it to Bridge Mode
    • Set the Dlink router address to x.y.1.1
    • All wired systems attached to the Dlink and if you need static addresses, use the Address Reservation to predict the association of MAC->Static IP address. Also ensure that all such static addresses are in a tight address range (say 2-10). This creates some controls you can use later in the firewall (btw: Win/7 FW is just great for this). This also implies that no other device is handing out IP address. (aka, ditch the win/2000 dhcp).
    • If you have VoIP, set those devices at the high end of the ip range (250-254)
    • Set the Belkin to have any different router address than the Dlink (say x.y.2.1), ENABLE DHCP, disable WiFi for just now.
    • If you will have trusted+untrusted systems on the Belkin, then set the mac->ip ranges very tight again (2-10).
    The systems on the Dlink should be a Private or Home network in your firewall and thus get all of the print/file sharing features. Test all the above before proceeding further.

    Take any system and connect(wired) to the Belkin.
    • You should have internet access regardless of Public, Private/Home firewall settings.
    • You should NOT be able to ping any system on the Dlink
    Get the above correct and then we'll move to getting WiFi+guest for the Belkin.
     
  7. glhglh

    glhglh TS Maniac Topic Starter Posts: 438

    Great, the more I have been forced to actually define the system we have been using, the more I have been realizing that needs to be changed, but my knowledge has been learned by keeping it going for many years. We wired the house 13 years ago. Wires from all over the house lead to a closet in the bedroom she uses for her office.

    One question before I start. The server 2003 that is serving as the DHCP is set to a dynamic IP address under the Dlink. I don't need to do anything to it but stop the DHCP service. A few years ago, when that server had a problem, and went down for a couple of weeks, we set the Dlink (or the older one before it) as the DHCP, so that is not problem. Then, I set the VOIP static addresses from the Dlink by logging onto it from my browser and making those changes, right?

    Also, we have 3, 4 pair RJ-45 wires that connect directly from the upstairs switchbox to each of the two old 2003 servers downstairs (.5 & .6 which are static) and the third direct wird goes into another switch box. Then, connected to that switchbox by wire are a couple of printers and my desktop in my office in the next room, and a wire to the Belkin.

    The Belkin has 4 LAN out plugs. Should attach the "direct" wire to the Belkin on the bottom end and the DLink out, using a second plug and bipassing the upstairs switchbox. and connect the downstairs switchbox into the Belkin. they would be getting the Belkin IP address, maybe not.

    I'm confusing myself. maybe the only new information is the fact that there are three good direct wires to the basement on this side of the house. we want the 2 servers directly wired for speed, but the third could go: Comcast ->Dlink->switchbox (for other wired connections)->Belkin (as now) or Comcast->Belkin->Switchbox (for other wired connections), or does it matter?
     
  8. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,446   +324

    sounds good
    that's great - - a switch is transparent (ie has no address or functionality) and acts like an a/c extension cord - - you get access to the wall plate from somewhere else :)
    not necessary. Any wire from the Dlink to a switch and thence to the Belkin is electrically the same as Dlink->Belkin, so do whatever works :)
    Code:
    Dlink --> switch -->(4) systems
      |
      +------> (3) systems
    work exactly alike - - there's no cost or degradation via a switch. You out to see my layout!

    I like having all network controls being set into network devices located as closely to the controlled devices as possible. Devices attached to the Dlink are controlled by the Dlink.
    Wifi connections are controlled by the Belkin, so let it do ALL the work.

    === FOR COMPLETENESS ===
    there is an alternative. You specifically want extra control on your guests - - consider the what if that were not so - - you needed print file sharing for them too. What would be necessary?

    It's so trivial it'll knock your socks off; Remove DHCP from the Belkin - - .
    The Dlink would hand out all the IP addresses on the SAME subnet and thus all systems would see each other and have access to Print/File Sharing. The Belkin will still manage the SSID & Encryption but pass Dlink addresses to the WiFi devices.

    [edit] move the wire from the Dlink to the wan slot on the Belkin to any LAN side slot, leaving the wan port empty [/edit]
     
  9. glhglh

    glhglh TS Maniac Topic Starter Posts: 438

    I like the ideas. Got caught today trying the easy way to wire one bedroom for fax, but got stuck till late. I'll finish that in the morning. then work on the network. We have always only used one dhcp, the 10 year old server. I have no problem making the dlink the control the ip addresses, but don't want to screw up the voip phones in my wife's business. The DIR-655 has MAC filtering. we could just use mac filters for wired or wireless.

    Too tired to think more about it today.
     
  10. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,446   +324

    Forgot to mention in post#8; updated in context
     
  11. glhglh

    glhglh TS Maniac Topic Starter Posts: 438

    I've had to work on other problems the last couple of days. I really appreciate your input, and ideas, and I want to have the time to put my idea on using some of both before I reconfigure the system. As it is now, the only guest is my brother in law, and I've told him to keep his Wireless on his notebook off, unless he is with me in the same room.
     
     
  12. glhglh

    glhglh TS Maniac Topic Starter Posts: 438

    Wives are wonderful beings (add your own interpretation) but when something goes wrong with their computer, everything else is put on hold.

    #1 choice:

    to theComcast Modem DIR-655 (Dir655 is set to DHCP for a range, maybe x.x.x.100-254, use . The two servers connect with static ip of x.x.x.5 & x.x.x.6. The Belkin connected by wire with a static address of to the DIR-655 with x.x.x.254 ip and is also used as a router (not access point, so the MAC filter, and other router safeguards can be used) for a range of ip addresses either above x.x.x.250-300, or between x.x.x.75-99.

    Wired devices are added with security, and password.

    Wireless devices are added with MAC filters only, except for Guest, which will have a separate login page, and only able to use printers.

    Will this work?

    The Belkin has already been given a static ip of 254.

    Will there be a conflict?

    #2 Choice:

    Belkin is connected directly to another mode of the Comcast Modem, and it stands as a router for wireless only, using the standard Belkin ip addresses of 192.168.2.1
    #3.
    Or, in it’s current setup, can the Belkin be set as a router, but no dhcp, but use the Dir-655 ‘s DHCP to assign ip addresses, and be able to require MAC address filtering, and also the Guest login page for internet & printer only.

    For #3, the only changes would be to delete the DHCP from the Server 2003 (currently static as xxx.xxx.1.5). Enable the DHCP on the DIR-655. And change the Belkin setup from a Access Point to a Router.

    Would that work? If #3 works, I think I like that way. The belkin is set as an Access Point because when I put the first wireless in, it was an Access Point. The Belkin is an upgrade, and I didn’t want dueling Routers.

     


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