Clicks are back after burn cleaned WAV files to CDA using Nero 9

By Debbie23
May 30, 2009
  1. Captured an LP to HDD thru amp hooked to SB X-Fi card using Nero 9 Wave editor.
    Cleaned up the clicks & crackle w/ Wave Ed & saved using "Save Tracks as Files" option (as .wav).

    When listen to those cleaned .WAV files directly from HDD (even w/ headphones), very little noise is audible - to me.

    When create an Audio CD compilation w/ Burning ROM 9, & select same exact files I just listened to, burn as audio CDA, the clicks are back when play CD. Played it on different players / PC - same clicking.

    Ran the original ripped .wav files back through Declicking / Decrackling in Wave Ed, increasing amount of noise to remove, saved to diff folder.
    Tried burning another compilation - same clicking is back after burn CD.
    2nd batch of cleaned files still sound very clean straight off HDD using Media Player.

    If I listen to 1st / 2nd burned CD w/ WMP, in the same DVD burner used to BURN it w/ Nero , clicks are quite audible.

    What's going on when some (much) of cleaned noise comes back when files are burned from .WAV to CDA format?

  2. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 11,467   +1,760

    This is just a guess but here goes. A .wav file is much smaller (more compressed) than an equivalent .cda file. (Which I believe is PCM). When the file is converted, data must be "added". The conversion algorithm may be inadvertently re-adding dynamic range to the previously suppressed noise spikes.

    Sort of like the wave trace was heading upward then it stopped, then on the other side the wave was descending, so it appears that a "chunk" has been taken out of the signal. So, if you viewed the original noise wave on a scope it would be triangle, but with very, very steep sides, approaching vertical. Noise filters,are able to detect these very steep impulses, since they don't exist in music, and then suppress them,

    So, I'm thinking the file converter "thinks" something is missing and reintroduces the transients. Too smart for its own good, that one.

    Vinyl records make noise, fact of life. DSP can't repair all the flaws without destroying the music in the process. I suppose it's fair to to say the computer can work wonders, it just can't work miracles.

    You can imagine how bummed I was, when I found out that even the mighty "Photoshop" couldn't fix all my blunders. Which, by the way, seemed to happen on the pictures I wanted most.

    As I said, this was an educated guess at best. Maybe somebody else knows more.
  3. Debbie23

    Debbie23 TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 53

    Really don't know enough about the conversion from .WAV to CDA to say. Sounds a little far fetched, but dunno. Why would Nero put spikes BACK into a cleaned recording that are obviously extraneous noise (large spikes)?

    All I know, is (whether there's a magic button I'm not pushing or not), it's taking pretty clean sounding .wav files (that I went to considerable trouble to clean) & putting the clicks right back.

    The Nero Burning ROM Audio CD creator even has it's own "remove clicks" option.
    I think I tried using / not using that option in the burn process - no diff I could hear - clicks are back.

    I have NOT converted the cleaned .wav files to MP3, then burned to see what happens. Either way, still need to get a clean CDA burn.
  4. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 11,467   +1,760

    I only have Nero 6, so I can't speak to the "if or any" status of magic buttons in version 9

    Nero has the "jack of all trades" thing going on. It's a great burning engine, but the worst video editor I've ever seen. Here again, I speak to V. 6.6. I only tried "Wave Editor" once or twice, after which I redoubled my efforts in trying to locate the albums I wanted to convert from LP.

    Perhaps another music editor has a better strategy than Nero, but I can't say.

    I do know that early Rolling Stones albums, still sound like early Rolling Stones albums, tape hiss, lack of dynamic range, and low audio bandwidth, despite being "digitally remastered", likely with the finest equipment available.
    Sorry to report, no clicks though. (That's because they were never LPs in the first place. They cheat).

    You could repose the question in "Software". But gotta warn you, a fair percentage of out membership has never even owned an LP.
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