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Defragging question

By learninmypc
Feb 11, 2016
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  1. I think this is a simple question/answer. My hard drive is 1terrabyte, since it was suggested in here to defragged once a month even thou w10 defrays by itself, I've been doing such & it normally takes 12 hours about. I recently deleted about 10-15 gb's of duplicate pics & decided last night to do a full defragged.
    It's been over 12 hours since I started the defragged & it's only showing 32%. Might that be because of the pics I've deleted? Remaining time shows 1-day. Curious only, thanks
     
  2. Cobalt006

    Cobalt006 TS Evangelist Posts: 1,777   +241

    You really do not need to defrag at all. Win ten does this for you once a week . Or whatever you set it for. I have a 1terrabyte drive it never takes more then 30 mins when it is defragged.
     
    learninmypc likes this.
  3. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 9,348   +622

    Due to the way files get written, every new file or any file that gets modified, gets fragmented. However, our email, pictures, videos do not degrade system performance, unless they are XX megabytes each AND we access the very frequently.

    System performance degrades due to fragmentation of *.EXE and *.DLL files - - oh yeah the system registry too.

    Personally, I default system defrag OFF to save laptop battery and redundant usage,
    run defrag[*] manually ONLY after an install or update.

    I use [*]Defraggler as my tool of choice and selectively only defrag the EXE & DLL files necessary.
    Saves, time, effort and far less R/W hd work.

    *maybe* once/year I defrag the free space.
     
    cliffordcooley and Cobalt006 like this.
  4. learninmypc

    learninmypc TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 6,615   +336

    Thanks jobeard. I tried to find the thread where I was told to do such once a month but couldn't find it.
    Since I posted this, it has gone up to 35%. Wish I could harmlessly stop it but I don't think that's a good idea
    I too use defraggler. Thank you
     
  5. Technician

    Technician TS Addict Posts: 677   +113

    Mine de-fragments weekly while I am asleep. I have no idea how long it takes as ... I am asleep.
     
    learninmypc likes this.
  6. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 8,559   +2,900

    With an SSD I no longer have much need in using a defrag utility.
     
  7. Technician

    Technician TS Addict Posts: 677   +113

    Of course not, I only de-fragment my 5 other drives (HDD), not my SSD's.
    You don't de-fragment your Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200.12 anymore at all?
     
  8. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 9,348   +622

    BAD IDEA to defrag SSDs as it reduces lifetime and degrades performance needlessly
     
    Darth Shiv and B00kWyrm like this.
  9. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 8,559   +2,900

    No I don't. Maybe once a year if that.
     
  10. Technician

    Technician TS Addict Posts: 677   +113

    It must play heck to find all the little pieces of files to load anything and use about 200% more seeks.
     
  11. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 8,559   +2,900

    It is the system drive which fragments quickly, not the data drive. And since my system drive is an SSD, I don't have a need in defragmentation. Most of the files on my data drive are never edited therefor never fragmented.
     
    B00kWyrm likes this.
  12. Technician

    Technician TS Addict Posts: 677   +113

    I have never seen a file that is never edited, that's all I do in making videos, retouching photos, creating music, etc.
    OK, that's a slight exaggeration, I have seen a never edited file, I just don't have many, if any. Every time you play a game you are updating files, every time you write a file or delete a file the drive gets more fragmented. If you never access your data, why store it?
     
  13. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 8,559   +2,900

    Accessing data does not fragment data. Yes managing file/folder structure does fragment files but nothing on the same scale of the system fragmentation. In fact the very minute defragmenting of the system drive is finished, the system is already working on fragmenting again. So to a degree obsessing over fragmentation is pointless. That is something I have learned over the last 25 years of using defragmentation applications. A little fragmentation doesn't hurt a thing. Now when most of the files are broken into a half-dozen fragments or more, that's not a good thing.
     
    learninmypc and Cobalt006 like this.
  14. learninmypc

    learninmypc TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 6,615   +336

    By gollie, its down to 20 hrs & 45 minutes. 86% . Gosh, it might be done by Valentines day lol :p
     
    B00kWyrm likes this.
  15. learninmypc

    learninmypc TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 6,615   +336

    Well, its finally done. I started with Used space of 602.0 GBs & ended up with 584.6 GB's.
    Aint no defrag ever taken this loong.
     
  16. learninmypc

    learninmypc TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 6,615   +336

    Can you tell me how to configure mine so I don't mess it up? :)
     
  17. B00kWyrm

    B00kWyrm TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,436   +37

    So... it took how long?
    to recover that 20gb, out of 1000gb... 2%?
    Wow! You plan on doing that again any time soon? :D
    I do have a program (legacy) that is a bit finicky about contiguous free-space,
    so defragging the freespace has been something I have done... just not recently.
    And since my main drive is ssd... no defragging there at all.
    .
    Off topic warning...
    My bigger worry is the usb drive that just went belly-up.
    (click-click.... click-click... click-click... windows explorer freezing on the unsuccessful seek attempts)
    In the hope it was the usb interface, (not optimistic, but tried anyway)
    I disassembled the drive and connected to the sata connector in my desktop...
    The drive is toast! And a lot of files created since the last backup, gone!
    Fortunately, I have a way of rebuilding those lost files. Or most of them.
    <sigh>
    So... backup more frequently.
    This Seagate drive went with NO warning.
    Last SMART check it was just fine! And no abuse taken either.
     
  18. learninmypc

    learninmypc TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 6,615   +336

    You're funny :). Yes, I'll kill a few days & defrag soon NOT. I was going to ask if defragging defragged the NOT used space, seems kind of ridicules.
    I just checked the defragging settings & found its set to do it weekly so as far as I'm concerned, NO more defragging unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.:)
     
  19. B00kWyrm

    B00kWyrm TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,436   +37

    Re: defragging freespace...
    .
    Seriously... I do have one program (legacy)
    that I use fairly regularly, still, despite it being orphaned in 2002.
    a program which is quite finicky in that regard.
    As I understand it, it needs a certain amount of room for swap space,
    and cannot figure out how to use anything but contiguous space...
    so... if it can't find a chunk the right size or larger,
    if "bad enough" it simply fails to load; or in the middle of use you get this error message.
    Why not dump this clump of code, as did the publisher?
    • I am a tightwad with my cash... (on some things, like this)
    • I don't need a learning curve on another productivity package.
    • It has been a while since the annoyance showed up.
    • I am trying to learn another package... but it is slow going because it is TOO able.
    The "quick and dirty" of the one I have is just fine.
    It does everything I need, thank you very much.
    .
    Don't you have any xp programs you still use? No? Maybe not. :D
    Still I suspect there are more than just mine that like contiguous free space.
    .
    I think it also can become an issue if you wish to add a partition later,
    (like with gparted, for the creation of a dual boot / linux & windows system.)
    .
    Old defragging programs used to have a graphical interface
    that allowed you to watch as sector contents were moved
    and then as files were rewritten to make them contiguous.
    In the process, you could see how some files got left "out there"
    right in the middle of what otherwise could have been contiguous free space.
    As I recall, some programs did allow you specifically to consolidate your free space.
    BUT... like I said... its been a while since the need raised its head for me.
    Doing some quick googling, I see some utilities still do this kind of work...
     
  20. learninmypc

    learninmypc TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 6,615   +336

    Ok, to back up a bit, the first time I defragged this harddrive (about 2 years ago) it took about 24 hours, but only about 12 after that. I'll just let it do its own defragging once a week :) Thank you for your input :)
     
  21. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 9,348   +622

    Defraggler allows that as well as creating large, but non-contig free space. The real issue is to keep significant 'blocks' contiguous for large block copies.

    There's all kinds of consideration for how to and where to place free space:
    1. all at the end of the drive
    2. in the middle of the drive
    3. large clumps distributed throughout the files.
    The issue is, when file expansion is necessary, how far away from the current file is the closest free cluster?
     
    B00kWyrm likes this.
  22. bigpapanoodle

    bigpapanoodle TS Rookie

    I have read that SSDs should NEVER be defragged.
     
    Darth Shiv likes this.
  23. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 8,559   +2,900

    The point in that statement is from a performance perspective, defrag is pointless in needlessly burning up write cycles. Manually defragging is different than automated defragging as a service. I still defrag once or twice a year just to defrag my files. I still don't like the thought of my files being fragmented even though they are on SSD and don't suffer performance degradation. Defrag once or twice a year would burn up no more than a system recovery. General usage burns up allot more than that reading and writing every day. Turning defrag on as a service is where I say NEVER, heck I even say that for a mechanical drive (but that's just me).
     
  24. Technician

    Technician TS Addict Posts: 677   +113

    And the best way to prevent this from happening is? Yeah, defragmenting. That's the whole point of it.
     
  25. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 8,559   +2,900

    Are you still trying to prove a point for a condition of which I don't experience? I've already told you mentioned the only files for which I ever really need to Defrag are the system files. And my very last comment states how seldom I do Defrag, even though that drive is an SSD. My system is very responsive and stays that way. To a certain degree I'd rather do a System Recovery (system backup of which I create after everything is installed) once a year to refresh my system than Defrag it. System Recovery is much more effective than defrag as far as repairing performance degradation.
     

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