Editorial: Why Windows 8 Start Menu's Absence is Irrelevant

I sense mirthful retorts...
First sign of flames, and I'm inviting a mod to look over it.

No mirthful retorts guy. Just a couple of observations.

To close out my participation in this discussion, my analysis of Win8 is via my own usage. I note the arguments -both for and against- based purely on the empirical, and I don't really buy into the hiding behind NDA argument- most-if not all of the information is already in the public domain, and I certainly don't buy into the MS conspiracy "to kill the desktop" - too much linkage with IHV's, too much ongoing development with D3DX/DirectCompute etc. for MS to put all its eggs into Xbox and especially portable computing where they would be fighting a multifront war.

Matthew DeCarlo, don't act like everything you say is a fact, because it's not, it's an opinion.

Guest, please appreciate the fact that this is an Editorial post, *not* a review. So Matthew is right in his place. Most of what he said is related to user experience technicalities, not business ethics which can be relative. If you are the great omnipresent OS guru, why don't you prove Matthew wrong point by point?
The posts, reviews and opinions posted here are based on per-user experiences, not an internet-wide aggregation.
I myself being a Linuxian, am not installing W8 anyway, despite the performance improvements it brings to my system. But that does not necessarily mean it's a bad OS. Just a good OS marred by wrong choices.

As a server administrator I am confident this product will fail for business environments. It was hard enough to shove ribbons down end users throats. But this interface is absolutely ludicrous. Teaching 900 of my end users how to use a screen like this is not going to happen. Plain and simple. Microsoft is biting the bullet on this one. It won't touch my network. This OS is for peoples Tablet and touchscreen desktop toys. In a business environment no one is going to be smudging up their screen and poking at their displays 8 hours a day to enter medical reports and other pertinent information. And tablets and mobile devices are simply not powerful enough to handle a lot of applications businesses might need today. From over 10 years of experience I assure you this OS will be rejected before it is even released. I'm sticking with Windows 7 on all new machines. My start menu is roughly 6" x 5" right now. It takes minimal effort to click in the search box and type in the first couple letters of any program I could ever want to open really. Versus this ludicrous system that takes up your whole screen. I hope employers want to dish out extra cash for carpal tunnel syndrom and arthritis from this un-ergonomic design. I don't care how efficient these clowns think it is... it will be my every effort to make sure this doesn't touch my network and I am the lead admin. Toys can stay at home. And this is nothing more than a toy.

It's not really the lack of a start button or start menu that irks me. What worries me is all the great apps I have been using that automatically load a shortcut into the start menu will likely freeze during installation. The my documents tree has up until now remain pretty much the same so there was always software compatibly during install even if you had to use the old "comparability mode" to get it to load. If Win8 has a compatibility mode for programs that do not fit its new install tree then that's not so bad, but I will still pass on Win8 simply because I'm tired of the fiasco that has become Microsoft. Every new OS seems to get further and further out of touch with what the consumer wants, and more what MS wants. This consumer wants XP2, complete with a non-destructive repair from disk, the ability to integrate disks with the latest criticals and full customization of the desktop experience. By the way, cell phones and tablets with wi-fi are going to destroy the world. Most women I see out there spend more time thumbing their phones than paying attention to the guy's that pass by. What does that say about our future? By 2040 all women will be wearing pop bottle glasses, be fat, single, and gay.

What completely escapes all reason is the stubbornness or Microsoft to allow us, the end users, to choose which interface we want. Why can not both Metro and the classic desktop / start menu exist in harmony. Problem solved.

I mean they only just recently removed the registry "hack" that allowed us to use the classic start menu. What is so wrong with having the best of both worlds.

On another note, for people like me using multiple monitors, I thought that W8 would be a hit but I have my monitor to the left of main display and having to precisely hover my mouse at the left hand side corners to open a menu is a real PITA. If you go just a bit too far you are on the other screen. Poor poor UI choices.

FALSE! You either have never used Windows 8, or you installed third-party software to get to that.

Drivers are evolving. The new NVidia Verde Series WHQL drivers (I have Version 304) work well with DX11 under Win 8 RP. That means Intel platforms now are supporting DX11. MS owns Skype, so of course they fixed it fast.

And don't worry about "compatibility" issues with legacy apps under Windows 8. Win 8 has far better and deeper backwards compatibility, both for software, and for drivers and hardware, than any Windows OS so far. I have never had an installer "freeze" in the months since I started playing around with the Win 8 betas. Unlike Windows XP, where some installers freeze so badly that a simple program update can result in a rollback to a previous system image.

You can see a huge display of the date and time in Win 8 by hovering the Mouse (or placing a finger) over the spot WAAAY down on the lower-left of the screen (Metro or Legacy Desktop) where the Show Desktop or Desktop Peek function used to be in Win 7 and Vista. The Charms Bar also pops out, but the clock shows in this move. And you can shut down or restart directly from Settings on the Charms Bar -- two clicks at most.

Two things will NOT be supported in the final Windows 8 code base:

(1) Gadgets or a Sidebar of any kind. Recent security developments have killed that platform.

(2) Start Menu, Classic Shell or any third-party workaround to get the Start Menu back.

Matt LeBlanc of Microsoft has confirmed these two statements in recent blog entries.

And you won't be able to install the Win8 $40.00 Upgrade over itself either. Also, the RP by itself does NOT qualify as a pre-existing Windows License.

Sorry, "power users" -- it's a brave new world out here (in Windows 8), and the Legacy Desktop is not a big part of this world. But never fear -- Windows 7 still has a few years left in its Product Life Cycle, so you can get used to the new world at your own pace.

I've been using Windows 8 64-bit on a modern non-touch laptop since the DP. I'm on the RP now.

And I still hate the Metro Interface. "Simplify" is a euphemism for Dumb-Down, IMHO.

A constant connection to the Internet is IMHO a privacy invasion and a security risk. But if you don't need Live Tiles, you can log into Win 8 as a Local User.

-- Bob Primak --

He means this: http://I.imgur.com/C3TV4.jpg
...but yes, that's just sophistry since it just brings you to the Start Screen.

On Windows 8 discussion as a whole, I find it honestly very narrow-minded and dumb to say "if you don't like it, don't buy it." At least for me (Microsoft Certified, power user, and a strong Windows proponent), I *want* the next generation Microsoft OS to be not just good, but spectacular. I don't want another Vista, because that would mean having to fix a bunch of problems that simply weren't there in previous versions. Microsoft dropped the ball, OEMs didn't understand Vista and dropped the ball, and the common person didn't understand why they needed to relearn tasks that power users take for granted. And they wanted to know why everything was even slower than the usual grunge that accumulates.

So, with people who HAVE been using Win8 and still have complaints, wanting them to shut them up with a "don't like it, don't buy it" is akin to not wanting Win8 improved just because you don't care about other people's concerns.

That's not how progress works. That's how mediocrity works.
(And not caring about other people's concerns is not how IT works, either.)

Absolutely wrong, Win8 is NOT a tablet OS piggybacked on Win7, its Win7 piggybacked on a tablet OS. And therin lies the problem, desktop users are forced to interact with a non-desktop interface in order to get their work done.

That encapuslates the issue. The desktop is subserviant to the tablet interface. There is NO GOOD REASON for this, and anyone who says it doesn't break the desktop experience simply never got anything productive done before, orits been so long that anyone counted on them being productive, they've simply forgotten.

Multitasking is the premier feature, the reason for the "s" in Windows. I might have 12 different things open at times, not just to look busy, but to cut & paste info from one to the other, even between multiple sources and multiple desinations.

Can I "make it work" with Win8? Yes, with far more effort that Win7, Vista, XP, WinME, Win98, or Win95. To dismiss productive users as "unwilling to change" is just as bigotted as to call those who disagree with Obama's policies "racist".

There is nothing about Win8 that offers an improvement for desktop users. Trouble is, if Metro wasn't forced on us and the start orb/menu had remained, Win8 wouldn't be getting panned the way it is. The choices were removed as an act of arrogance.

Seriously guys/gals, if you aren't productive workers, please don't comment on the desktop aspects of computing. We're not talking about "cute dog and bird playing" videos, we're talking about having multiple applications open, exchanging information between them, and actually doing something that earns money for our employer and/or ourselves.

DAS

"The multicolored grid of tiles is better because you get to organize it however you like it."

How do I organize so it's not there? Every version of Windows gets worse with MS thinking they know how to organize your stuff. My Documents was a great idea but now it's worthless because of all the crap MS and other companies dump in that directory. Also, why does MS think I need a picture with everything? MS continues to go the way of apple, less choices.

I know that the start menu and task bar aren't perfect by any means but, if it ain't broke... don't fix it. for me one of the best reasons against metro ( notice I said "for me") is that it's just plain old UGLY. Sorry metro fans. Just my personal opinion.

Looks like Gabe Newell doesn't like Windows 8 so much according to the link below:

http://allthingsd.com/20120725/valv...-games-wearable-computers-windows-8-and-more/

I tried it. It's ok, but not significantly better and doesn't really add to the user experience (on a PC that is), so I'm not upgrading. I'll wait for version 9 to see what it has to offer. I expect there's not going to be a lot of people beating a path to Microsoft to upgrade their existing hardware, but as usual, they'll be force fed it on new PCs. Judging by all the chatter, I think there'll be enough people demanding Win7 to be made available as an option though. Should be interesting to see if MS give in to popular demand again as they did with XP. I think I'm going to sell my remaining Microsoft stock and buy some more Apple. Just to be safe.

IMHO...every1's rt now focusing on negatives of metro but there are sm +ves to it as well. Once we see some gr8 apps in the store, ppl will begin to like metro. But it needs time.

The dictum still holds true... Best time to buy any Microsoft OS is after it reaches SP1, Win 8 is no exception.

I've just always thought it looked very Gnome 3. Maybe better but will probably always remind me of that.

Windows 7's start menu and desktop are more refined, efficient and functional than Metro. It already has all the facilities for Metro functionality without having the latters UI limitations and jarring switches. Streaming info, news, emails, media etc? Place widgets on your desktop. Need quick access icons? Place shortcuts on your taskbar, desktop or pin them in your start menu (my favourite!). Need a quick text search? Press your keyboard start key and start typing! Best of all is the Start Menu itself which organises all functionality into one location: control panel, networking, easy-scrolling All Programs, Run, Devices and all your Personal files. Whereas in Metro everything is a jumbled mess. A mixture of Apps and Programs that inflicts jarring UI switches. Fullscreen one-app limitation with obtuse actions required for switching to another running app and even for closing the current one. Functionality hidden in taskbars at the edges of screens instead of all options being exposed. Multiple space inefficient full screen displays for simple single sentence menus. Hidden, not enough and/or totally absent navigational ques. No consistency in the navigational flow of apps, displays and menus. Large space inefficient tiles that are either too small to display any significant info or too large with no info at all besides item name and icon. Really I would rather place multiple customizable traditional windows side by side on my desktop for optimal space useage than the horrible TILES. Metro is an overall inappropriate and unnecessary main screen UI. The traditional start menu + desktop + icons has been refined over years and is the best overall OS UI environment available for KB + Mouse.

Although I'm not conviced that Metro is the ideal (merely passable) UI for touch-based input devices, the best thing Microsoft can do at this point is include a total on/off switch for the Metro UI inside the traditional start menu placed next to the shut down button. With OFF being default.

Completely agree.

Its nice to see not "everybody" is a Microsoft kool-aid drinker. It is fascinating how many people have convinced themselves that Windows 8 is "the bomb"!!! because it boots faster.

Ok - So your a business user or power user what works best you have 3 programs or more open on your screen that you are actively working in

A. Small Classic Start menu that can be quickly opened and not cover the entire screen stopping you from working COMPLETELY

B. Metro that will cover the entire screen stopping you from working COMPLETELY & Look stupid to Boot