Employee lawsuit against Amazon over work-from-home expenses loses class-action bid

[midian182]

What just happened? Amazon has defeated an attempt by an employee to bring a class action lawsuit against the company for not paying home office expenses that staff incurred while working from home during the pandemic. But while the tech giant may have won this battle, it hasn't won the war.

US District Judge Vincent Chhabria in San Francisco said plaintiff David Williams, a California-based Amazon engineer, failed to show the nearly 7,000 employees had enough in common to sue as a group.

The judge added that Williams had not shown sufficient evidence that Amazon had a company-wide policy of not reimbursing employees for expenses such as internet bills and phone calls, and that the company only made reimbursements for "incremental" increases in home internet costs.

Chhabria added that 619 of the 7,000 California workers from the proposed suit were reimbursed an average of $66.49 for home internet expenses. "Not only does this seem more than 'incremental,' it appears to be far more than what California law requires," the judge wrote. Some of the workers were reimbursed in full.

Does your employer pay you for home office expenses?

There was some good news for Williams: his motion for class certification was denied without prejudice, meaning he could file a renewed motion. His lawyer, Craig Ackermann, said they plan to file a new motion that excludes the 619 workers who received reasonable reimbursement.

"We are very pleased and happy to accept the court's challenge to try again for certification following a bit more discovery," said Ackermann.

Back in 2021, Williams sued Amazon over claims it was violating California state law by not reimbursing workers who were incurring phone, internet, and electricity costs while working remotely.

Amazon previously tried to have the case dismissed, but this was denied by Chhabria in January. The company argues that it does not owe reimbursements because the stay-at-home orders came from the government and not Amazon.

Williams does have an advantage: his lawyers have filed similar lawsuits against several other companies, including IBM, Fox, and Oracle. Some of these cases have been settled, with the firms agreeing to pay remote workers up to $83 per month to cover home office expenses.

Amazon is trying to cut costs wherever it can these days. In addition to laying off a record 18,000 employees, it is closing eight more Amazon Go stores, abandoning plans for dozens of US warehouses, and pausing construction on its second headquarters in Virginia.

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https://www.techspot.com/news/97860-employee-who-filed-lawsuit-again-amazon-over-work.html

 

[MyIOnU]

I understand reimbursement for those that did not have internet access before and then they had to get them in order to work remotely. However, for the rest of people that already have internet access before working remotely, they have to prove that it increases their internet access cost.

 

[Ohnooze]

I understand reimbursement for those that did not have internet access before and then they had to get them in order to work remotely. However, for the rest of people that already have internet access before working remotely, they have to prove that it increases their internet access cost.

Not to mention they are saving time, gas, wear and tear on their vehicle and were able to stay home. And they were able to keep their jobs...but somehow they are owed something. Amazing.

 

[Jrfeimst2]

Not to mention they are saving time, gas, wear and tear on their vehicle and were able to stay home. And they were able to keep their jobs...but somehow they are owed something. Amazing.

I know right. People these days think they are so entitled about mess like this. I don’t get reimbursed for driving 60 miles a day to work or for my lunch lol. People are out of touch with reality. Trying anything to get easy money. Ridiculous

 

[UdyrL]

"US District Judge Vincent Chhabria"

The name's Vince, not Vincent.

 

[Ohnooze]

I know right. People these days think they are so entitled about mess like this. I don’t get reimbursed for driving 60 miles a day to work or for my lunch lol. People are out of touch with reality. Trying anything to get easy money. Ridiculous

Entitled children who have never had to struggle evidently. They tend to think they are special snowflakes and deserve a great life just because. The world is only here to make them happy evidently.

 

[brucek]

Hey, this gave me a great idea for a class action suit against my in-person employer, can I sue them for not reimbursing my clothes, car, gas, home shower, past education, and the phone that I mainly use to goof off on during work hours?

Or maybe an even bigger class would be taxpayers, who could maybe sue this law firm for wasting our tax dollars with these frivolous suits.

 

[Uncle Al]

Generally speaking, most companies & employee's understand there is an offset of expenses & savings by a work at home program. Amazon's first mistake was reimbursement of anything to anyone. Frankly, anyone that acquired internet services in order to work from home still had a net gain from not having to commute daily, pay for babysitters, auto expenses, etc, etc, etc.

The whole idea that people think they should be paid for breathing, breaking wind or anything else like that is deploring .....

 

[waclark]

I understand reimbursement for those that did not have internet access before and then they had to get them in order to work remotely. However, for the rest of people that already have internet access before working remotely, they have to prove that it increases their internet access cost.

To a point I agree, but it's not just internet. It's also power consumption. If I work from home I'm using my power, heating and cooling. Where I live there are "peak" periods where power is more expensive. If I'm incurring additional power costs, shouldn't someone reimburse me for that?

Now, I do see Amazon's point which is that it wasn't Amazon that made people work at home, it was the government. So, therefore, I feel that the government should cover these costs. They certainly covered business cost through programs like PPP and other grants for businesses that were shut down during Covid.

 

[waclark]

Generally speaking, most companies & employee's understand there is an offset of expenses & savings by a work at home program. Amazon's first mistake was reimbursement of anything to anyone. Frankly, anyone that acquired internet services in order to work from home still had a net gain from not having to commute daily, pay for babysitters, auto expenses, etc, etc, etc.

The whole idea that people think they should be paid for breathing, breaking wind or anything else like that is deploring .....

Well, it's not just internet cost. There's power, cooling and heating. And what about companies that provide drinks/snacks while working (like Amazon, Microsoft and others)? Now I'm incurring those costs. As for day care, I still might need day care if I'm working from home because I can't work and watch the kids at the same time. Likewise, auto expenses might be low. I'm certainly not "saving" very much by not driving to work. Maybe gas expense, oil changes etc. But what if I take public transport or car-pool with others. There's absolutely no guarantee that there is a net savings from working from home. Will the company provide the additional monitors, cameras, microphones and other gear I have in my regular office? Will they upscale my Internet speed to match what I have in the office. There are a lot of costs here.

That said, I agree with Amazon. It was the government that made everyone work from home so I don't see why Amazon should bear the burden of those added expenses, on top of paying for building space that no one can use because the government had a knee-jerk reaction to Covid.

 

[waclark]

Hey, this gave me a great idea for a class action suit against my in-person employer, can I sue them for not reimbursing my clothes, car, gas, home shower, past education, and the phone that I mainly use to goof off on during work hours?

Or maybe an even bigger class would be taxpayers, who could maybe sue this law firm for wasting our tax dollars with these frivolous suits.

Sorry to report, but no. I believe this has already been to court. Some expenses are reimbursable, but everyday clothing, car to get to the office and others are not. Your phone might be partially reimbursable if you use it for business purposes, unless they already provide a phone (on your desk for example).

 

[Ohnooze]

Oh man this comments section reminds me more and more of how entitled we have become. A world wide pandemic hits and people are pissed and want more money because they had to work from home. A lot of companies let go of everyone they could during the pandemic but these poor people had to endure working from the house in their pajamas...oh the horror. During the pandemic I saved probably $200+ a month in gas, 2+ hours of drive time a day and never had the leave the house. Our entire company took a 7% pay cut because earnings were down and I was damn happy to take it so long as I could have my job and work from the house. I understand that while I was needed for the company I was also blessed to still have a job.
People don't seem to understand that the world is unpredictable and earth is not here to give them a comfortable life. Sometimes you get hit and you have to deal with it.

I just had a weird thought....if we had an apocalyptic type of event (Last of Us) I could see these people picketing in the streets because zombies were treating them unfairly. hmm...

 

[Ohnooze]

Well, it's not just internet cost. There's power, cooling and heating. And what about companies that provide drinks/snacks while working (like Amazon, Microsoft and others)? Now I'm incurring those costs. As for day care, I still might need day care if I'm working from home because I can't work and watch the kids at the same time. Likewise, auto expenses might be low. I'm certainly not "saving" very much by not driving to work. Maybe gas expense, oil changes etc. But what if I take public transport or car-pool with others. There's absolutely no guarantee that there is a net savings from working from home. Will the company provide the additional monitors, cameras, microphones and other gear I have in my regular office? Will they upscale my Internet speed to match what I have in the office. There are a lot of costs here.

That said, I agree with Amazon. It was the government that made everyone work from home so I don't see why Amazon should bear the burden of those added expenses, on top of paying for building space that no one can use because the government had a knee-jerk reaction to Covid.

Since the mod deleted my post, let me share my thoughts a bit more friendly.

Most everyone has internet especially if their job can be done from home. Sitting at home in your office isn't going to make a major impact on your cooling or heating.
What's mind blowing to me is that you're adding free snacks and drinks to your list of things they owe you because you're not in the office. They are...free...free...that is a perk for being in the office and not something they owe you. Working from home saves you from spending time in the car commuting, gas money, wear and tear on your vehicle and your clothing and gives you the perk and comfort of working at home.
Many people like myself worked an hour from home. I was saving over $50 a week on gas and loved that I didn't have to deal with traffic...that alone was worth a ton.
I think it's funny too how people complain about having to commute and how much working from home is a huge perk and they whine about commute time and gas and so on....but now they are complaining that they are owed extra for being allowed to work from home.
Absolutely mind blowing.

 

[waclark]

Since the mod deleted my post, let me share my thoughts a bit more friendly.

Most everyone has internet especially if their job can be done from home. Sitting at home in your office isn't going to make a major impact on your cooling or heating.
What's mind blowing to me is that you're adding free snacks and drinks to your list of things they owe you because you're not in the office. They are...free...free...that is a perk for being in the office and not something they owe you. Working from home saves you from spending time in the car commuting, gas money, wear and tear on your vehicle and your clothing and gives you the perk and comfort of working at home.
Many people like myself worked an hour from home. I was saving over $50 a week on gas and loved that I didn't have to deal with traffic...that alone was worth a ton.
I think it's funny too how people complain about having to commute and how much working from home is a huge perk and they whine about commute time and gas and so on....but now they are complaining that they are owed extra for being allowed to work from home.
Absolutely mind blowing.

Well, I disagree about the cost of heating and cooling. I have a home in AZ. I can turn down my thermostat while at work. In the summer, if I'm working at home that thermostat will not get turned down and it will make a major impact on my billing. Same for my home in WA state. In the winter I need to turn the heat on to be comfortable. In AZ we have different billing rates based on total usage and time of day. It makes a difference, a measurable difference. And there's the water and sewage usage as well.

Wear and tear on your clothes? Seriously? Do you work naked when you work from home?

I do believe there is an added cost to working from home in the form of higher costs for power, water, wear and tear on the home (heating and cooling equipment, lights etc) and possibly the need to have a faster internet connection than I might normally have if I didn't work from home.

As to who should pay for that, well in this case I do not believe it is Amazon's responsibility since it was the government shutdown that forced people to work from home. But, if Amazon mandated work-from-home maybe they should pay a subsidy. If you choose to work from home instead of the office, then maybe that cost is on you.

Either way, WFM is not always a net gain for the employee. It depends on a lot of factors.

 

[Ohnooze]

Well, I disagree about the cost of heating and cooling. I have a home in AZ. I can turn down my thermostat while at work. In the summer, if I'm working at home that thermostat will not get turned down and it will make a major impact on my billing. Same for my home in WA state. In the winter I need to turn the heat on to be comfortable. In AZ we have different billing rates based on total usage and time of day. It makes a difference, a measurable difference. And there's the water and sewage usage as well.

Wear and tear on your clothes? Seriously? Do you work naked when you work from home?

I do believe there is an added cost to working from home in the form of higher costs for power, water, wear and tear on the home (heating and cooling equipment, lights etc) and possibly the need to have a faster internet connection than I might normally have if I didn't work from home.

As to who should pay for that, well in this case I do not believe it is Amazon's responsibility since it was the government shutdown that forced people to work from home. But, if Amazon mandated work-from-home maybe they should pay a subsidy. If you choose to work from home instead of the office, then maybe that cost is on you.

Either way, WFM is not always a net gain for the employee. It depends on a lot of factors.

Do you dress the same at work as you do at home? I don't and if I work from home those clothes last longer because they are not going through the wash and whatnot. It's not hard to understand...clothing doesn't last forever and my work clothing is definitely more expensive.
I live in the south and it gets hot as all hell here. Working from made almost no difference.

Again it's funny how the same people who fight tooth and nail to work from home are now wanting extra money for working at home. Makes no sense.

Sorry but for the vast majority of people it's cheaper to work from home and it's not even close in comparison.

Now if you had to buy special software or something then yeah I get that of course but extra for utilities you already pay...give me a break.

 

[waclark]

Do you dress the same at work as you do at home? I don't and if I work from home those clothes last longer because they are not going through the wash and whatnot. It's not hard to understand...clothing doesn't last forever and my work clothing is definitely more expensive.
I live in the south and it gets hot as all hell here. Working from made almost no difference.

Again it's funny how the same people who fight tooth and nail to work from home are now wanting extra money for working at home. Makes no sense.

Sorry but for the vast majority of people it's cheaper to work from home and it's not even close in comparison.

Now if you had to buy special software or something then yeah I get that of course but extra for utilities you already pay...give me a break.

Yes I wear pants and a shirt at home as well as the office. Mostly blue jeans and button down shirts. I wear pants and shirts every day and they have the same laundry schedule regardless of where I wear them.

I grew up in the south. Lived there for many years. It rarely gets as hot as AZ and usually doesn’t get as cold as other places I’ve lived in the north. Also, as you might know, water isn’t plentiful here in AZ and therefore there are incentives and penalties for using water. It matters, more than the laundry cost of clothing.

As for car expense, that can be mitigated by carpooling or mass transit. I agree on the time aspect of commuting, it sucks, but not everyone has those long commutes.

I don’t think you can make a blanket statement on cost or cost saving to work from home. It varies widely. I’ve worked for companies that provided lunch or dinners but working from home I now incur those costs. I’ve worked for companies that provided company cars that I could use for personal matters and that included gas and maintenance on the vehicle. No need for a car while working at home. There are companies that provided day care at the office and one company had an on-site gym that we could use any time at no cost.

That’s my point, your situation may be different than mine and someone else may have an entirely different situation. It’s not a foregone conclusion that work from home is cheaper for me or anyone else.

 

[Ohnooze]

Yes I wear pants and a shirt at home as well as the office. Mostly blue jeans and button down shirts. I wear pants and shirts every day and they have the same laundry schedule regardless of where I wear them.

I grew up in the south. Lived there for many years. It rarely gets as hot as AZ and usually doesn’t get as cold as other places I’ve lived in the north. Also, as you might know, water isn’t plentiful here in AZ and therefore there are incentives and penalties for using water. It matters, more than the laundry cost of clothing.

As for car expense, that can be mitigated by carpooling or mass transit. I agree on the time aspect of commuting, it sucks, but not everyone has those long commutes.

I don’t think you can make a blanket statement on cost or cost saving to work from home. It varies widely. I’ve worked for companies that provided lunch or dinners but working from home I now incur those costs. I’ve worked for companies that provided company cars that I could use for personal matters and that included gas and maintenance on the vehicle. No need for a car while working at home. There are companies that provided day care at the office and one company had an on-site gym that we could use any time at no cost.

That’s my point, your situation may be different than mine and someone else may have an entirely different situation. It’s not a foregone conclusion that work from home is cheaper for me or anyone else.

We are just going to have to disagree.
I think people in general think their life should easy and uninterrupted but that's not how the world is. Sometimes you may have to take a hit financially when something drastic happens. You can't expect Amazon or whoever to hold your hand through it all.

 

[waclark]

We are just going to have to disagree.
I think people in general think their life should easy and uninterrupted but that's not how the world is. Sometimes you may have to take a hit financially when something drastic happens. You can't expect Amazon or whoever to hold your hand through it all.

I did make the comment that in this specific example I didn’t think Amazon should be responsible for the expense. Everyone has to make their own decision as to whether the compensation is adequate to accept the job. When circumstances change you may have to reevaluate your specific situation.