Ethernet connection will not work without WiFi

E

EEBrent

Posts: 15   +0
I have a very interesting problem that I've only seen twice in my 10 year engineering career. Hopefully someone can figure this one out:

So I have an Ethernet connection to my laptop so I should be able to gain access to the internet with no problems, but that's not the case. I must be connected to the WiFi in order for the Ethernet connection to work. I know it's the Ethernet connection that's allowing me access to the internet and not the Wifi because I'm using Wire Shark and I've watched the activity through the connection. It's very unusual and I have found no one who has the same issue and there's nothing online. Like I said, I've only seen it on two laptops in my engineering career so I think it's pretty rare.

Any information on how to resolve this issue will be greatly appreciated.
 
A) disable BOTH ethernet & wifi devices - - reboot.

Enable the Ethernet and watch Network and Sharing in the task bar.

When the Yellow ! goes away, get a command Prompt and enter ipconfig >myTcp.txt
now copy the content of the myTcp.txt file and paste as a reply.
 
I'm not comfortable with putting up that information online. Is there something specific in the ipconfig that you want to know?
 
Sorry you don't understand. NOTHING in that data exposes your system, due to the modem/router NAT in front of it.
I was looking for IPv4 & IPv6 protocols and a consistent configuration from your DHCP.
 
To make my point; here's mine. If you're really concerned, edit out the Physical Address: XX-XX-XX-XX-XX as show below

ipconfig /all >myTcp.txt

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : JeffPC7
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : socal.rr.com

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : socal.rr.com
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek PCIe FE Family Controller
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : XX-XX-XX-XX-XX
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.5(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Monday, June 19, 2017 6:59:38 AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, July 26, 2153 3:46:22 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 209.18.47.61
209.18.47.62
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Dell Wireless 1502 802.11b/g/n
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : XX-XX-XX-XX-XX
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Ethernet adapter Bluetooth Network Connection:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Bluetooth Device (Personal Area Network)
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : XX-XX-XX-XX-XX
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
 
The Ethernet hooks up to a separate piece of equipment that does not connect online. But unless the wifi is connected, it will not talk to the equipment at all.


Windows IP Configuration


Wireless LAN adapter Local Area Connection* 2:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :

Ethernet adapter Ethernet:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : X
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.3
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1

Wireless LAN adapter Wi-Fi:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : man.fs.lmco.com
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : X
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 158.187.240.63
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.252.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 158.187.240.1

Ethernet adapter Bluetooth Network Connection:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
 
The Ethernet hooks up to a separate piece of equipment that does not connect online
Click to expand...

Starting from the top of Internet Setups, that comment is strange! We normally wire it all up like:
  • isp==modem--router--devices
  • |
  • + - - - wifi - - - mobile devices
When connected properly, ALL of our devices will be associated with the router gateway,
like 192.168.0.x
Ethernet adapter Ethernet:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : X
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.3
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1

Wireless LAN adapter Wi-Fi:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : man.fs.lmco.com
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : X
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 158.187.240.63
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.252.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 158.187.240.1

Notice the major difference between Wired 192.168.... vs WiFi 158.187...
You've also elected to hide your DNS servers . . . (sigh) and many times we can have IP connection but fail to get a DNS and thus our browsers consistently fail (but only because the TCP is malconfigured).

I have no Idea how you're wired up and I can't work with the setup unless I can see it all.
So you can disclose what's going on or rewire your equipment...
 
jobeard said:
Starting from the top of Internet Setups, that comment is strange! We normally wire it all up like:
  • isp==modem--router--devices
  • |
  • + - - - wifi - - - mobile devices
When connected properly, ALL of our devices will be associated with the router gateway,
like 192.168.0.x
Ethernet adapter Ethernet:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : X
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.3
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1

Wireless LAN adapter Wi-Fi:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : man.fs.lmco.com
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : X
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 158.187.240.63
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.252.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 158.187.240.1

Notice the major difference between Wired 192.168.... vs WiFi 158.187...
You've also elected to hide your DNS servers . . . (sigh) and many times we can have IP connection but fail to get a DNS and thus our browsers consistently fail (but only because the TCP is malconfigured).

I have no Idea how you're wired up and I can't work with the setup unless I can see it all.
So you can disclose what's going on or rewire your equipment...
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I didn't hide anything. Everything masked besides what I showed. We manually changed the IP address for the Ethernet connection because it's a piece of equipment that has its own internal server which does not connect to the internet. I am not trying to connect to the internet at all. All I want to do is connect to the equipment with the Ethernet and run processes. The problem is that I cannot connect to the equipment that's hard wired via Ethernet unless I have wifi. Even a small interruption with the wifi will cause the lost of connection with the equipment. I don't want to be connected to wifi or the internet. Just the equipment.
 
EEBrent said:
Unfortunately I didn't hide anything. Everything masked besides what I showed. We manually changed the IP address for the Ethernet connection because it's a piece of equipment that has its own internal server which does not connect to the internet. I am not trying to connect to the internet at all. All I want to do is connect to the equipment with the Ethernet and run processes. The problem is that I cannot connect to the equipment that's hard wired via Ethernet unless I have wifi. Even a small interruption with the wifi will cause the lost of connection with the equipment. I don't want to be connected to wifi or the internet. Just the equipment.
Click to expand...
What I mean by masked is that I can't even see it without administrators privilege which is not something we can get. But regardless the DNS server shouldn't matter because I don't want to be using the DNS server at all. The only thing that I want to be connected to is the equipment, and that's it.
 
Oops, I see. Instead of ipconfig >myTcp.txt, it should have been ipconfig /all >myTcp.txt - - my mistake.
 
I think I'm getting the picture - - you are attempting:
  • isp==modem--router---- Your PC ---- other lab device @ 158.187.240.63
  • |
  • + - - - wifi - - - mobile devices
 
jobeard said:
I think I'm getting the picture - - you are attempting:
  • isp==modem--router---- Your PC ---- other lab device @ 158.187.240.63
  • |
  • + - - - wifi - - - mobile devices
Click to expand...
Correct. Here's the full config

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : MANL71NXQ72
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : us.lmco.com
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : acct05.us.lmco.com
man.fs.lmco.com
acct04.us.lmco.com
acct03.us.lmco.com
acct02.us.lmco.com
acct01.us.lmco.com
us.lmco.com
global.lmco.com
eis.lmco.com
bal.lmco.com
syr.lmco.com
orl.lmco.com
motown.lmco.com
tds-eagan.lmco.com
tds-akron.lmco.com
owg.fs.lmco.com
sdhtc.us.lmco.com

Wireless LAN adapter Local Area Connection* 2:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft Wi-Fi Direct Virtual Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : E4-B3-18-13-DE-69
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Ethernet adapter Ethernet:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) Ethernet Connection (2) I219-LM
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 84-7B-EB-2D-F6-C3
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::7503:1101:85a4:604b%17(Preferred)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.3(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 159677419
DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-20-1B-BD-55-84-7B-EB-2D-F6-C3
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.4
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Wireless LAN adapter Wi-Fi:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : man.fs.lmco.com
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) Dual Band Wireless-AC 8260
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : E4-B3-18-13-DE-68
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::51e4:fdf3:5afc:fbd6%2(Preferred)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 158.187.240.63(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.252.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Monday, June 19, 2017 3:00:36 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, June 20, 2017 5:30:38 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 158.187.240.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 1.1.1.1
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 48542488
DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-20-1B-BD-55-84-7B-EB-2D-F6-C3
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.132.207.1
192.132.207.2
204.68.140.33
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Ethernet adapter Bluetooth Network Connection:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Bluetooth Device (Personal Area Network)
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : E4-B3-18-13-DE-6C
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
 
jobeard said:
I think I'm getting the picture - - you are attempting:
  • isp==modem--router---- Your PC ---- other lab device @ 158.187.240.63
  • |
  • + - - - wifi - - - mobile devices
Click to expand...
Well sort of correct. I said that I was trying to get internet connection for my first post, but I'm not. Should be:
Your PC ---- other lab device @ 158.187.240.63
And that's it. That's all I want. But I cant connect to the "lab device" without the wifi being connected to the internet.
 
Yea, I get it!
a) has this EVER worked as intended? My guess is NO
b) how did you ge the IP address 158.187.240.63 as any possibility of being correct?
c) what software do you use to access that device AND is it ever a possibility that you need BOTH Internet and the Lab Device access at the same time?
 
A) it only works if the wifi is connected despite never using the internet to run anything
b) the IP is definitely correct because it has worked with wifi connected. We can send pings to the lab equipment through the Ethernet and have watched the commands get sent out through wireshark when on the wifi. We haven't tried looking at wireshark with the wifi disconnected though.
c) the only thing we run is SNMP through the command prompt that's under the lab equipment directory and we should not have to be connected to the internet because that's the way it was designed. The lab equipment has 0 wifi connectivity and is on a private network. The private network is all internal so it can talk to other lab equipment that's on the same private network. It seems like a Windows setting that's causing the issue but we can't figure it out.
 
Look carefully at the WiFi address - - it's your lab device @ 158.187.240.63
so of course it only works with wifi.

the wired device is 192.168.0.3 attached to the router at 192.168.0.1

with everything as it is and both connections active, try
  • TRACERT -d 8.8.8.8
which will show the path out thru the Internet to the google dns.
the #2 line should be your ISP (or the next router)

  • TRACERT -d 158.187.240.63
will be the path to the lab device
 
jobeard said:
Look carefully at the WiFi address - - it's your lab device @ 158.187.240.63
so of course it only works with wifi.

the wired device is 192.168.0.3 attached to the router at 192.168.0.1

with everything as it is and both connections active, try
  • TRACERT -d 8.8.8.8
which will show the path out thru the Internet to the google dns.
the #2 line should be your ISP (or the next router)

  • TRACERT -d 158.187.240.63
will be the path to the lab device
Click to expand...
So I should of checked the IP address that you provided (158.187.240.63). That's the Wifi address. I want the connection to the equipment through the Ethernet at 192.168.0.5.
 
Your router at 192.168.0.1 will NEVER communicate with 158.187.240.63 as there is no path (aka route) to it. When WiFi is shutoff, the device doesn't exist.

The lab device needs to be connected directly to the router just as your PC is. THEN it should be possible to manually create a persistent route to it
 
Wow... So the equipment IS connected directly to the device. There's no router in between the lab equipment and the PC. If you look at the IP configuration, you can see that. I repeat: I'm connected directly to the equipment through the Ethernet, there's no router or anything in between. I cannot get anything from the lab equipment that's connected DIRECTLY to the PC without being connected to the wifi. The wifi should has zero affect with the communications between the PC and the lab equipment but for some reason, it does. The "persistent route" to the equipment you're talking about, is already created and works as long as wifi is connected to the PC. That's the problem, I should not have to be on wifi to connect to the lab equipment because it's connected directly via Ethernet to the PC.
 
EEBrent said:
That's the problem, I should not have to be on wifi to connect to the lab equipment because it's connected directly via Ethernet to the PC.
Click to expand...
You can NOT have the PC between the router and the device - - these are different Subnets and will not route one to the other, specially THRU the PC.

Get the device attached to the router using a 192.168.0.x and the use SNMP to access that address.

The secret is in the routing table; ROUTE PRINT >myRoutes.txt.
 
jobeard said:
You can NOT have the PC between the router and the device - - these are different Subnets and will not route one to the other, specially THRU the PC.

Get the device attached to the router using a 192.168.0.x and the use SNMP to access that address.

The secret is in the routing table; ROUTE PRINT >myRoutes.txt.
Click to expand...

Well that's exactly how it's working right now so it's definitely possible and that's what we're trying to fix. Maybe because the device DOES NOT and CANNOT use the internet. I think you're confused about what we're trying to get. The device DOES NOT need the internet and CANNOT use the internet, it is literally impossible for this device to connect to the internet. I DO NOT WANT THE INTERNET ON THE PC OR THE DEVICE. Stop thinking about how can we hook up the equipment to the internet. We do NOT want that. I want the PC and device to be completely disconnected from wifi/internet. The problem is that I cannot connect to the device with the PC (that's directly connected with Ethernet) without making the PC connect to wifi/internet.

Internet, thru wifi to------>PC, thru Ethernet to----->Device

This is our set up. As you can see, the PC is connected DIRECTLY to the device. So we should be able to ping the device without the internet because it's hooked up DIRECTLY to the PC via Ethernet. But for some reason, the PC will not connect to the lab device (That's connected DIRECTLY via Ethernet) without being connected to the internet/wifi. The wifi should have no part in this whatsoever, but for some reason it does.
 
EEBrent said:
Internet, thru wifi to------>PC, thru Ethernet to----->Device

This is our set up. As you can see, the PC is connected DIRECTLY to the device. So we should be able to ping the device without the internet because it's hooked up DIRECTLY to the PC via Ethernet. But for some reason, the PC will not connect to the lab device (That's connected DIRECTLY via Ethernet) without being connected to the internet/wifi. The wifi should have no part in this whatsoever, but for some reason it does.
Click to expand...

And I am convinced you don't understand TCP routing. As long as the WiFi finds the lab device at 158.x.x.x, that's the path it will take.

If you want that device on the 192.168... network, then you will need the device to be on that subnet.

You and your 'admin' need more help than I can provide - - sorry.
 
I understand TCP routing well enough, but you're correct, I'm an electrical engineer not a network engineer. But we do have a really good network engineer. A couple of these posts are his, actually. We've been trying to explain this as simple as possible but we're obviously doing a terrible job. We turned off the router because we don't want to be connected to the internet. We also turned off the wifi on the PC so it wouldn't take priority and attempt to search for it. The PC remained connected to the device through the Ethernet and the PC still won't talk to the device. We also made sure the Ethernet connection was enabled and all drives were updated. This is actually one of the first things we tried a while ago because our network engineer suggested it.

We may have found our answer. Seems like this is a known problem with the CPU that we're using, but not positive about it though. I'll post the link if it works after we install the new CPU, in case anyone runs into the same problem. There's really no information about this at all. Our unusual situation makes it harder because we're in a lab and most people want to connect to the internet, not disconnect from it. Also, we can't say much about our device. Nothing secret or anything but we're very cautious. I was hoping I could be the hero and find the answer on the internet but someone got to it first.

After reading some of the past posts, sorry if we seem a bit rude. We're engineers with poor social skills.
 
I understand and have empathy for the issues.

Sort out what works vs what does not...
  • what's different between the working vs non-working Tcp?
If Internet is disabled, then
  1. you have NO Gateway address
  2. also no DNS
(1) has many implications;
  • Broadcasting on 192.168.0.255 is not possible as 192.168.0.1 is not available
  • Global broadcasting on 224.0.0.0 is not possible for the same reason
  • and w/o (1), DNS and anything NOT local to the router is not possible
Here's a routing table showing what needs the Gateway address:
  • Active Routes:
    • Network Destination Netmask Gateway Interface Metric
    • 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.5 20
    • 192.168.0.0 255.255.255.0 On-link 192.168.0.5 276
    • 192.168.0.5 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.0.5 276
    • 192.168.0.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.0.5 276
    • 224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 192.168.0.5 276
    • 255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.0.5 276
While SNMP accesses IP addresses (aka thinks that may not be on the gateway subnet), ANYTHING else it attempts (like discovery which will use the gateway), will fail.

So ASK; Why do I care that the Internet is necessary to use SMNP to access the Lab device?
 
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