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Extreme liquid cooling

By Quantex_rox
Feb 25, 2008
Topic Status:
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  1. I just bought a compressed air duster, and i flipped it upside down when i was spraying it, and some liquid came out, onto my hand. It was extremely cold. So i looked on the can to see what the liquid was, apparently it was Difluoroethane. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Difluoroethane
    Aparently very cold, and is also known as Freon 152a. If you made a completely sealed liquid system with a brushless motor pump (the vapors are flammable), and made sure everything was airtight, you could make your system very cool, and overclock very high.
     
  2. Matthew

    Matthew TechSpot Staff Posts: 6,065   +84 Staff Member

    Yep, and then you'd have condensation on the outside of the unit dripping all over your components.
     
  3. Quantex_rox

    Quantex_rox TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 152

    hmm...didn't think of thatd

    but if it is kept under pressure, it dosen't (or there would be condesation on the outside of this spray can.)
     
  4. Matthew

    Matthew TechSpot Staff Posts: 6,065   +84 Staff Member

    I honestly don't know the entire science behind the stuff off hand, but, I know that when I use it the can isn't cold until I shake it or spray it. This suggests that something has to activate it, by agitation or otherwise. If you had that going on inside your case and the unit that the substance were sitting in got cold (significantly cooler than the temperature inside your chassis), I'd expect condensation. It's a known problem with current enclosed liquid cooling units that you mount inside your chassis. I had a friend fry some components of his with a Coolit about two years ago.
     
  5. Quantex_rox

    Quantex_rox TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 152

    hmm, 3M makes a non conductive liquid, There was a guy who submerged his entire motherboard and ram in it and used dry ice to cool it down and pumped it back in. It was a long time ago, i belive the processor was a 333mhz p2, and he over clocked it to 550 some mhz. I will have to find the link again
     
  6. Matthew

    Matthew TechSpot Staff Posts: 6,065   +84 Staff Member

    What does that have to do with this?
     
  7. Quantex_rox

    Quantex_rox TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 152

    well, if it was underwater in that liquid, and you pumped the freon 152a throught the liquid in a series of copper pipes (not into the liquid), adjectated by a rotary or a piston pump. It would keep it really cool, and you would not have to worry about condensation.
     
  8. Matthew

    Matthew TechSpot Staff Posts: 6,065   +84 Staff Member

    And you think that is a practical application for overclocking a few more MHz?
     
  9. silverxxx670

    silverxxx670 TS Rookie

    OC

    Well first of all you have to understand what that liquid actually does, if a liquid feels cold to the touch.. its because its evaporating and drawing heat away in the vapor that evaporates, which is exactly what liquid nitro does, if it is a non conductive liquid it may be safe to literally pore it on to the MB/CPU..but as Zenosincks said about condensation may build up and you would never be able to distinguish it from the outher coolant liquid, which is also happens with the liquid cooling products when ever the is a surface that is significantly colder than the sourounding air temperature it allow that moisture in the air to form into droplets of water on the surface... hope that answers your question
     
  10. Matthew

    Matthew TechSpot Staff Posts: 6,065   +84 Staff Member

    That's not what I suggested at all. In fact, if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is impossible :/.

    I was suggesting that if there were a unit directly mounted to the motherboard inside the chassis, housing a substance that was extremely cold, it would cause condensation to build up on the outside of the unit, thus dripping all over the electrical components inside.

    If the entire system were submerged in a non-conductive liquid, condensation (at least by my understanding) wouldn't be possible. A brief description of condensation by wiki:

    Water vapor is the gaseous form of water. The gaseous form of water would not be inside a holding tank full of non-conductive fluid (or any other fluid for that matter). It's impossible. Thus, condensation could not occur.
     
  11. silverxxx670

    silverxxx670 TS Rookie

    the air we breath contains water vapor...
     
     
  12. Matthew

    Matthew TechSpot Staff Posts: 6,065   +84 Staff Member

    Eh? Of course. That has no relevance to any of this.

    Maybe you're just not understanding. He is suggesting an enclosed housing full of non-conductive liquid. Within this is the PC along with copper pipes full of the actual coolant. None of this is touching the outside air.
     
  13. silverxxx670

    silverxxx670 TS Rookie

    but if there was a enclosed housing full of liquid .. there are many components that get warm in a free flowing atmospire but in a enclosed box full of the non-conductive liquid would cause many things to overheat because liquid like gas unless its moving and being replaced with cooler gas/liquid just acts a in insulator which would heat everhthing up no matter what liquid it is, so eather u would have to have cooling pipes coming off anthing that generates the slightest amount of heat, so that would be a huge dissadvantage over the regular system
     
  14. Rick

    Rick TechSpot Staff Posts: 6,304   +52 Staff Member

    I remember a project (back in those days too, actually) that used mineral oil. The idea was to submerge the whole system in the oil - the premise being it is non-conductive.

    http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php

    Now, I don't know exactly what is in mineral oil, but 'minerals' are conductive... so I'm not sure why mineral oil is chosen over say, vegetable oil or a carrier oil. But the above is a video I just briefly glanced over which shows this idea in action.
     
  15. Matthew

    Matthew TechSpot Staff Posts: 6,065   +84 Staff Member

    It's not just a body of liquid. The liquid isn't even the damn primary cooling agent. It's nothing more than a middleman between the copper pipes full of freon (which is being propelled/agitated) and the internal components of the PC. If the body of liquid were cold enough (which, in our hypothetical situation here, it would be), there would be no problem keeping the components cool.
     
  16. silverxxx670

    silverxxx670 TS Rookie

    but in that case you would have to cool the main body of liquid aswell because it will heat up asllwell as the regular cooling pipes coming from the main components, as to the video they do look awsome im sure if for a hour or 2 it would be an advantage but once it alll heats up its just recirculating the hot oil
     
  17. silverxxx670

    silverxxx670 TS Rookie

    im allmost thinking of making one out of 1 of my old pc's just koz the look kool
     
  18. silverxxx670

    silverxxx670 TS Rookie

    and i quote from the website "Air Pump and Bubble Bar: If you like bubbles! We were also hoping the bubbles would help carry heat out of the oil, see below for our test results" exactly my point u need to cool the liquid too
     
  19. silverxxx670

    silverxxx670 TS Rookie

    and also "The mineral oil aquarium alone had an incredible ability to absorb heat into the oil, and for that reason, this is a great setup for periods of load less than 12 hours long"
     
  20. silverxxx670

    silverxxx670 TS Rookie

    but with the adition to watercooling too the main components i think that it would possibly be a viable option aslong as the container has a largenuf surface area to let the head disapateits posible that if you were to have a very large container with a decent circulation that it mite work with purely the oil for an unlimted amout of time
     
  21. Matthew

    Matthew TechSpot Staff Posts: 6,065   +84 Staff Member

    Huh? Cool the "main" body of liquid "as well"? There is only one body of liquid. Maybe you can't understand the concept here. Nothing will heat up (at least not as much as you're thinking). Look at my attachment. Just a quick MS paint drawing.

    Gray: Outside Air
    Blue: Non-Conductive Liquid
    Green: Components
    Brown: Copper Pipes
    Red: Pump/Agitator

    The body of liquid will remain a consistent cool temperature because of the copper pipes full of freon.

    I can't even believe I'm trying so damn hard to make you understand something that I initially criticized as being impractical LOL. Whatever...
     

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  22. SNGX1275

    SNGX1275 TS Forces Special Posts: 12,552   +301

    Mineral oil isn't conductive, not even all minerals are conductive. Calcite is a mineral, it isn't conductive. Its used in electrical transformers so of course its well suited for submerging electrical components.

    You can use vegetable oil, but I believe mineral oil is preferred because of its higher resistance to breaking down/decomposition. Plant esters do not retain their properties like a petroleum oil does.
     
  23. Rick

    Rick TechSpot Staff Posts: 6,304   +52 Staff Member

    Good info.

    I should have been more careful when I said 'minerals are conductive' and phrased that as 'some minerals'.
     
  24. Tarkus

    Tarkus TechSpot Ambassador Posts: 837

    Freon would work to cool only in a refrigeration type system. Cooling by expansion of a suitable compound. You need a compressor to re-compress it so it can expand and cool at the heatsink. See Vapochill for an example. It's already available but not cheap. More than twice the cost of water-cooling, it also requires extensive modding of the motherboard to protect from condensation.
     
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