First PC Build, suggestions/comments :)

[deeps1987]

Since the MoBo is an ASUS, you probably have a choice of RAID controllers. I use the standard Silicon Image controller. Same performance but generates less heat (SilImg typically only supports RAID 0/1/2/10).

i have no idea about RAID or anything related, other than that RAID-0 is best for performance.
so if i buy X2 Western Digital SATA-II drives, will i just simply plug them into my new mobo and some how select RAID-0 configuration?
I'm totally new to the finer inner workings of performance hard drives etc.
Is SATA-II the latest type of hard drive and best?
thanks, i know i may seem a bit lost here

iv been thinking, if im getting the E6850 Core 2 Duo, with a FSB of 1333Mhz, and my RAM is only at 1066Mhz, will i have to mess around in the BIOS overclocking/underlocking to bring them in-line with each other to get the best out of the system?

 

[Grafficks]

Intel Processors use the Quad-Pump technology. This means that a CPU with a FSB speed of 1333MHz has an actual FSB speed of 266MHz (this is the number you will see in the BIOS, under "FSB").

Most memory used these days are DDR2 (Double Data Rate II). This means that data is sent on both ends of the tactical signal. If you RAM has a speed of DDR2-1066MHz, then the actual speed of your RAM is 533MHz.

If you keep them both at stock speeds, then the CPU:RAM ratio is 1:2 (since it's 266:533).
A lot of people believe a 1:1 ratio between the CPU:RAM will yield the best performance. If you were to aim for a 1:1 ratio, then you would need to either under-clock your RAM or overclock your CPU.

 

[deeps1987]

ooh i see, the CPU:RAM ratio.
so if i lower my CPU mulitplier,i can increase my FSB untill its 533 or there abouts, to get a CPU:RAM ration of 1:1

is a lower CPU multipler and a higher FSB better than a High CPU multplier and a lower FSB, performance wise?
thanks

 

[Mugsy]

A primer on RAID

i have no idea about RAID or anything related, other than that RAID-0 is best for performance.
so if i buy X2 Western Digital SATA-II drives, will i just simply plug them into my new mobo and some how select RAID-0 configuration?
I'm totally new to the finer inner workings of performance hard drives etc.
Is SATA-II the latest type of hard drive and best?
thanks, i know i may seem a bit lost here

A great little intro on the different RAID types can be found here on Wikipedia.

RAID stands for "Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks". It was devised years ago as a means of fast/cheap data backup by writing the same data to multiple drives at the same time. As such, "RAID-0" technically is NOT a true RAID format because there is NO data redundancy. The benefit of RAID-0 is that it is fast because it splits the data up, reading/writing from/to two drives at the same time. But don't get the mistaken idea that it makes everything twice as fast, because the data must be processed. So you'll see little or no performance gain... even a loss... with "tiny" files (under a meg), but a really nice speed boost with big files like DVD's, large games, etc. But with no redundancy (meaning no data is duplicated), if one drive goes dead in a RAID-0 array, you lose EVERYTHING on BOTH drives.

RAID-10 is a combination of RAID-1 (mirroring drive one on drive 2) plus RAID-0, combining the speed of "0" with the security of "1", but takes FOUR drives, half of which is backup, so you only get half the space. A bit pricey wasting two drives on a realtime backup.

RAID-5 takes only three drives to do the same as RAID-10, but it's slower than RAID-0/1/10.

JBOD ("Just a Bunch Of Disks") isn't a RAID format at all, but lets you string a whole bunch of little drives together so they look like one big drive. NO performance benefit, but wastes almost no space when formatting your drives, giving you FAR more space than if you formatted them individually. If you have a bunch of old drives lying around gathering dust, JBOD can be useful.

Once you've picked your desired RAID format, you must go into the BIOS and set your system to use the built-in RAID controller instead of the standard controller. (There will be other BIOS settings as well. Check the manual.) When you boot your new computer, there will be a point in the Asus startup routine when it prompts you to hit a key to enter the RAID setup utility, a simple built-in program. From there, it will let you choose your RAID configuration and format your drives. After that is when you boot from the XP CD and install Windows from scratch. Windows will prompt you install a "RAID/SCSI controller" from floppy first. The manual will tell you how to make such a disk. I made one by running the driver-maker program on the Asus driver CD on another PC. That's the easiest way. Check the manual on other methods (you might be able to just load the driver straight off the CD, depending on how the Asus bios has changed since I did it.)

If you have all your ducks in a row ahead of time, it's a fairly easy process. Your MoBo's user manual should include an entire section on setting up your system to use RAID. Download the manual from Asus and read up on it you're concerned.

PS: Oh, I almost forgot, when using RAID, every drive must be the EXACT same size and speed. JBOD doesn't care about size/brand/speed/etc.

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

is a lower CPU multipler and a higher FSB better than a High CPU multplier and a lower FSB, performance wise?
thanks

AFAIK, it mainly depends on how much headroom is available. FSB speeds are usually limited more than CPU speeds but that may vary from mobo to mobo and from chipset to chipset, so it all boils down to what motherboard & chipset you have.

 

[deeps1987]

A great little intro on the different RAID types can be found here on Wikipedia.

RAID stands for "Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks". It was devised years ago as a means of fast/cheap data backup by writing the same data to multiple drives at the same time. As such, "RAID-0" technically is NOT a true RAID format because there is NO data redundancy. The benefit of RAID-0 is that it is fast because it splits the data up, reading/writing from/to two drives at the same time. But don't get the mistaken idea that it makes everything twice as fast, because the data must be processed. So you'll see little or no performance gain... even a loss... with "tiny" files (under a meg), but a really nice speed boost with big files like DVD's, large games, etc. But with no redundancy (meaning no data is duplicated), if one drive goes dead in a RAID-0 array, you lose EVERYTHING on BOTH drives.

RAID-10 is a combination of RAID-1 (mirroring drive one on drive 2) plus RAID-0, combining the speed of "0" with the security of "1", but takes FOUR drives, half of which is backup, so you only get half the space. A bit pricey wasting two drives on a realtime backup.

RAID-5 takes only three drives to do the same as RAID-10, but it's slower than RAID-0/1/10.

JBOD ("Just a Bunch Of Disks") isn't a RAID format at all, but lets you string a whole bunch of little drives together so they look like one big drive. NO performance benefit, but wastes almost no space when formatting your drives, giving you FAR more space than if you formatted them individually. If you have a bunch of old drives lying around gathering dust, JBOD can be useful.

Once you've picked your desired RAID format, you must go into the BIOS and set your system to use the built-in RAID controller instead of the standard controller. (There will be other BIOS settings as well. Check the manual.) When you boot your new computer, there will be a point in the Asus startup routine when it prompts you to hit a key to enter the RAID setup utility, a simple built-in program. From there, it will let you choose your RAID configuration and format your drives. After that is when you boot from the XP CD and install Windows from scratch. Windows will prompt you install a "RAID/SCSI controller" from floppy first. The manual will tell you how to make such a disk. I made one by running the driver-maker program on the Asus driver CD on another PC. That's the easiest way. Check the manual on other methods (you might be able to just load the driver straight off the CD, depending on how the Asus bios has changed since I did it.)

If you have all your ducks in a row ahead of time, it's a fairly easy process. Your MoBo's user manual should include an entire section on setting up your system to use RAID. Download the manual from Asus and read up on it you're concerned.

PS: Oh, I almost forgot, when using RAID, every drive must be the EXACT same size and speed. JBOD doesn't care about size/brand/speed/etc.

hmm, according to wikipedia, the performance gains from RAID-0 in games is minimal, and it doesn't seem worth it imo.
So ill just have two 500GB 16MB buffer hard drives, in non-RAID config.
do i need fan controllers for the radiator for the water cooling and case fans? or will the motherboard operate them correctly?

thanks for all of that explanation though, it really helped, it should be a sticky somewhere for other people new to RAID.

 

[Mugsy]

Performance gains.

hmm, according to wikipedia, the performance gains from RAID-0 in games is minimal, and it doesn't seem worth it imo.
So ill just have two 500GB 16MB buffer hard drives, in non-RAID config.
do i need fan controllers for the radiator for the water cooling and case fans? or will the motherboard operate them correctly?

Since I work with a lot of video and some very large files, I notice the improvement, but other things seem about the same as before.

The RAID info on Wiki is about a year or two old now and may not be accounting for the large amounts of FMV and large data files in many modern games, so I wouldn't put "absolute" stock in Wiki on that one issue (games). If you are concerned about your ability to successfully setup your new system to use RAID, I can understand, and you may be safer just going the single drive route. But with all the built-in support for it now, it's much easier today that it was even just two years ago. In fact, this is my *first* time using RAID. A buddy of mine upgraded a customer's PC to RAID-0 like it was no big deal simply because he thought it would give her PC a speed boost. I thought, "Hell, if it's such a minor thing that he'd do it to a customer's PC without fear just for the hell of it, why can't I do it too? It took me a little longer to setup (about an hour) because I had never done it before, but I had carefully read up on how to do it beforehand, so there were few, if any, surprises.

On the fans: To the Motherboard, all fan speeds are controlled by temperature probes on the MoBo itself. It neither knows nor cares if your system is watercooled.

 

[deeps1987]

On the fans: To the Motherboard, all fan speeds are controlled by temperature probes on the MoBo itself. It neither knows nor cares if your system is watercooled.

so what will control the speed of my 3 radiator fans for water cooling, or will they be at 100% continuous, or is there a connection on the motherboard, where i can connect the temperature sensor to, and place it near/in the radiator? plus is the motherboard capable of controlling the numerous case fans ill have?
if so, whats the point in the 5.25" bay fan controllers etc?

 

[Mugsy]

The case

so what will control the speed of my 3 radiator fans for water cooling, or will they be at 100% continuous,

Without researching it, I'm fairly certain the watercooled ThermalTake case you've selected is designed to handle all that. Visit their site, do a bit of research and it should tell you exactly what to expect.

I haven't tried water cooling myself (I have a case with SEVEN fans... not counting the fans on the parts inside), but when I researched it, I found many "kits" had fan speed control knobs that you'd tune by hand for the best temp/noise ratio. I'd expect a specialty case like you're considering to have built-in electronic sensors to control fan speeds (IF it uses fans at all. Some use pressurized coolant, like a refrigerator, to cool the system!)

 

[deeps1987]

thanks guys,i think i have everything covered for now

 

[deeps1987]

Will This Work?

Hey guys, iv just been planning how the water cooling will work, and iv come up with this, will this work with my built-in water cooled case?
theses are the specs from the Thermaltake website

Liquid Cooling System
All-in-one waterblock : For Intel BTX platform, P4 775 and AMD K8
Performance radiator :
(A) Dimension of radiator : H 407 x W 120 x D 35 mm
(B) Three 1300RPM 120mm fans
P500 liquid pump : Power DC 12V liquid pump (500L/hr)
Reservoir : Contains 350 c.c. of liquid capacity, easy to refill
Water tube : Transparent UV tube (3/8”) & industrial-grade rubber tube.

Will the pump be powerful enough and will the radiator be able to cool down the water too a decent temp?

Excuse the drawing lol, MS Paint skills not the best

thanks

 

[deeps1987]

hey all, just an update, iv bought everything for my PC build, it arrives tomorrow, ill take pics as i build if i remember.
any advice? because i know I'm gonna be overwhelmed for a bit lol

A few changes on my components

CPU is now a Core2Duo Q6600 (95W version) @2.4Ghz, it was the same price as the E6850
PSU is now a OCZ GameXStream 1010w Silent version, it was cheaper than the Thermaltake one
Samsung SpinPoint T HD501LJ 500GB SATA-II 16MB Cache (Just one for now, thought id atleast attempt to cut costs ) lol
NEC AD7170A 18x18 DVD±RW Dual Layer ReWriter
Razer Copperhead Tempest Blue 2000dpi High Precision Gaming Mouse
Saitek Eclipse 2 Keyboard

No Monitor yet, dad is buying me one, im guessing a decent 22" one, perhaps Samsung

thats the only changes

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

Hey Gurdeep, what'd you decide on the additives? Also, did you try out the system to see if it works properly? Lastly, did you go with distilled water as I told you to or with de-ionized water? Good luck with the system, I hope it turns out well for you.

 

[deeps1987]

hey Raze,
i haven't decided on the coolant yet, im in the process of installing everything into the case for testing, im taking my time, plus i only get 2 hours each night to try and put it together. after its tested, ill take the motherboard/ram/gpu out, install water cooling, then connect it to the blocks outside the case for testing them.

 

[deeps1987]

Hey all,
just an update, iv got the computer all working, looks and works great, really flies. A few changes though, i had to return my X1900 Crossfire ready card, as it was missing components, and that was the last one they had, so i just got a refund, so I'm only using my X1900 XTX and @ 1680 X 1050 with all options maxed out, I'm not getting that great of a frame rate on some games, so i may just sell my X1900 XTX and buy a 8800 GTX or something.
Another change is, my in built water cooling (triple radiator) is used just for the graphics card, my CPU and Northbridge are now cooled with an external Thermaltake CL-W0081 Tribe VX Liquid Cooling Kit
Iv overclocked my Intel Quad Core Q6600 G0 from 2.4 Ghz to 3.96 Ghz stable, and getting temps of 35*C Idle, to 50*C @100% Load. I still cant believe how overclockable this CPU is, id recommend it to anyone, defiantly the best component iv bought.
My X1900 XTX is 35*C idle and 45*C full load, which is way better than before, i was getting 55*C idle and 100*C full load on air cooling.
Overall my first PC build was a success, i encountered very few problems, mainly how hard it is to take the tubing off the water block after you've put it on lol.

So my system specs as they stand now are

Intel Quad Core Q6600 G0 @ 3.96Ghz (440 X 9) (Thermaltake CL-W0081 Tribe VX Liquid Cooling Kit)
ASUS Blitz Formular
OCZ Reaper 8500 2GB kit 1066 5-5-5-15 (Dual Channel)
ATI Radeon Connect 3D X1900 XTX (Danger Den Tyee Block) (Case Water Cooled)
Thermaltake Kandolf LCS Case
OCZ 1010 Watt GameStream PSU
X2 Samsung Spinpoint 501LJ 500GB
22" Samsung SyncMaster 226BW
Razor Copperhead Mouse
Saitek Eclipse II

i ran the Custom PC benchmark, and here are the results (I'm Number 4 BTW) The 3 people in front of me are using Phase Cooling. Im really surprised at how easy it was to overclock
the CPU, compared to my old AMD's, iv defiantly turned to the 'darkside' lol Intel has my vote,no question.
here are a few pics, theses were taken before i got my external water cooling kit, so the CPU is still connected to my internal water cooling in the pics, ill take newer/better ones, when my card reader arrives lol

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

Nice setup there mate. Good luck with it.
P.S. -> Sorry couldn't reply to any of ur messages on MSN. I'm to busy with work and uni these days. Feel free to send me an email or two though.

 

[deeps1987]

Cpu-z

hey that's alright Moize,

just some questions i have about my PC, why does CPU-Z show two different 'Core Speeds' and 'Multipliers' depending on CPU load?

and why does it show my memory is running at 2T, when iv set it manually in the BIOS to run at 1T?

iv got the CPU to run at 4Ghz, but it wasn't stable enough to run benchmarks, so i had to set it to 3.96 Ghz, which is still more than enough for me.

i could go further, but it wont be stable, so its pointless lol

thanks