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Help out your exhaust fans

By red1776
Oct 11, 2010
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  1. a Rather simple tip, but if your case temps are marginal, or if your wife likes it ungodly warm in the house during the winter :rolleyes: try helping your exhaust fans do a better job by putting a 'pull ' fan on the other side. It can drop ambient case temps by 5c or more. here I converted HDD dual 60mm cooler to get more PSU heat extracted, and another 140mm fan on the other side of my interior rear exhaust fan. It moves a lot of air/heat from the case. My case sensors showed on average a 4-6C drop during high load activities.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. EXCellR8

    EXCellR8 The Conservative Posts: 2,278

    in my case i could but an intake fan on the outside as my radiator fan pulls air in from the rear. not sure i would see such an improvement though as the 5870's exhaust is right below; would probably just recycle the warm air. it's a nice idea though because two fans will most definitely move the air out faster. just be careful you don't get your fingers in there when reaching behind the tower :)
     
  3. red1776

    red1776 Omnipotent Ruler of the Universe Topic Starter Posts: 5,897   +88


    Now ya tell me! :p :wave: (I do have a grill I am gong to throw on there) yea its more for us schleps with air cooling :) It actually works exponentially well, the out side fan actually speeds up up the inside fan. It feels like 3x the air is leaving the case. (i have no way to demonstrate that of course) but the ambient temp drop is significant.
     
  4. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,734   +889

    Um, golly, it's like turbocharging, but backwards.

    Why not add to the risk factor and go with metal blade fans?

    BTW, this works with stock type Intel CPU coolers as well. Just put a fan in the side air duct. This would be like turbocharging, only forwards.
     
  5. red1776

    red1776 Omnipotent Ruler of the Universe Topic Starter Posts: 5,897   +88

    I said it was a "simple tip":p and there is a guard going on it....or maybe i like to live dangerously...
     
  6. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,734   +889

    At this point, allow me to digress. Forgive me for spelling, "golly" incorrectly. Everyone plainly knows tht it's spelled, "gah-lee"! Or is that, "goll-lee". It's been so long since I've used the term.

    I'm still for using metal blade fans. This would save many dollars. You wouldn't need a pit bull to guard your computer. Just put a proximity detector on it, and change the Windows sounds to a dog bark. :rolleyes:

    Show them a picture http://edwardboches.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/BlownAway.jpg
     
  7. red1776

    red1776 Omnipotent Ruler of the Universe Topic Starter Posts: 5,897   +88


    I thought 'golly' was the correct spellin.
     
  8. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,734   +889

    So's ya means ta tell me thet that thar wuz spelt all proper like?

    I hope you followed that image link.
     
  9. red1776

    red1776 Omnipotent Ruler of the Universe Topic Starter Posts: 5,897   +88


    Haha, that was the old Maxell campaign circa 1977 or so?
     
  10. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,734   +889

    Actually, I'm not sure. The speakers in the photo are JBL Century 100s, (home version of their L4310 studio monitors (12" 3 way bass reflex). But Maxell does sound familiar.
     
  11. red1776

    red1776 Omnipotent Ruler of the Universe Topic Starter Posts: 5,897   +88

    I think its Maxell's ' sounds so close to live' ..or something like that.

    you may find this interesting Cap...if your an audiophile, I have a pair of Altec model 19's, the home version (walnut)
     
     
  12. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,734   +889

    Definitely a Maxell ad.

    Although, given that they developed that "West Coast Rock Sound", I'm surprised that JBL never went that route with a campaign.

    I say, "don't s** around with those piddling little twelves, go straight out a grab a pair of fifteens. Or mebee two pair, if you're not in a row house.

    Yeah, '77 sounds about right! Now you'll have to excuse me, I have to go listen to Bruce Springsteen's "Glory Days", on my crappy dual 8" woofer Chinese Jibbles.
     
  13. red1776

    red1776 Omnipotent Ruler of the Universe Topic Starter Posts: 5,897   +88

    see the edit in my above post *****
     
  14. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,734   +889

    Actually we have talked a bit about that. I remember linking Klipsch "La Scala" theater speakers, which are a rough equivalent of your Altecs.

    Here's something to think about; the inverse square law's effect on air movement by a loud speaker. What it goes to is this; if a 15" speaker produces "X" air movement @ 1/8" of cone travel, then to move the same amount of air with a 4" loudspeaker, it requires a cone travel of 2 full inches.

    I guess that kinda obviates the fact that a 4" sub-woofer, at worst is a continuing delusion, and at best, is just a plastic, craptastic, figment of some ad exec or juvenile delinquent's imagination.

    This is not too far off topic is it? After all, this thread started out as a dialog about air movement. Loud speakers are after all, one of, if not the most, creative and accurate air movement machines that we've ever come up with.
     
  15. red1776

    red1776 Omnipotent Ruler of the Universe Topic Starter Posts: 5,897   +88

    The good old days...or at least the old days....

    oh that's right we did talk about that a couple of years ago in an "off topic' thread" back to your point on air movement. I had a 68 caddy with a 18" sub in the trunk. this other guy could not figure out why his three 8" wouldn't thump like mine did. as a matter of fact, on a hot august day in 19......something, it shattered the rear window whilst i had Pink Floyd's 'Meddel' cranked up......it made my system the "baddest ***" in the hood.:rolleyes:
    That 18" subwoofer moved so much air (vibration) that a friend of mine with asthma could not be in the car with it turned up..(mine went to eleven) because it set off an asthma attack...am I rambling?...okay i will stop rambling...I thought it was more reminiscing.
     
  16. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,734   +889

    "If it's Worth Overdoing, It's Worth Overdoing Completely"......

    I would have thought that,"Time" from "Dark Side of the Moon" would have been the straw that broke the windshield's back, so to speak.
    It would seem that you ran short on "asterisks". :rolleyes:
     
  17. Adhmuz

    Adhmuz TechSpot Paladin Posts: 906   +101

    Well if your still going way off topic from the original fan debate and concerning speakers, I have a pair of Tangent 500s and they sound amazing. Can't say I've ever heard any of the ones your "rambling" on about but can appreciate the times when speakers were speakers and could make small houses bounce, well maybe not but they just sound so much better for some reason. And for the fan idea, its good, but looks funky, having a fan on the outside of the your case all the time. On the back its not so bad I guess just odd, maybe I'll give it a try but can't imagine a 5 C improvement.
     
  18. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,734   +889

    Read this about the JBL D-130: http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/d130.htm The flux field was so controlled in these drivers, you could put a piece of iron right on the back cover of the magnet, and it would just fall to the floor. The entire 12,000 Gauss flux density, of a 12 pound Alnico V magnet, was centered directly in the voice coil gap. These speakers were designed to work with the 20 watt peak tube amps of the day, and produced, (at least), 103DB @ 1 watt @ 1 meter sensitivity. These were 15" paper cone drivers, that had the transient response of a pair of decent headphones.

    Once upon a time, when men were men, and the house phone was the best made piece of hardware in the home, these were built way, way, better than that.

    In a 2 way speaker system, the D-130 would be paired with an 0-75 Ring radiator tweeter. These tweeters were used also as ultrasonic stoplight triggers, (In an emitter/ receiver array, a car pulls past, breaks beam, light changes), until people got wise and started stealing them, (true story).

    @Red...James B Lansing formed Altec-Lansing, then started JBL Sound. Tragically, he committed suicide. It is my understanding that part of the motivation for this, was a series of patent infringements. Wiki page on Altec...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altec_Lansing
     
  19. red1776

    red1776 Omnipotent Ruler of the Universe Topic Starter Posts: 5,897   +88

    These are not my speakers, mine are in storage, but these is them.
    The efficiency of these (also called "the voice of the theater") is amazing. I ran two model 19's and a pair of altec 'Madrids' @ 4 ohms with a Nakamichi PA 7, and to this day, I think its the best sounding system I have ever heard. The only thing that I think would make it better, would be with a Carver Silver series Tube amp. :)

    [​IMG]
     
  20. LinkedKube

    LinkedKube TechSpot Project Baby Posts: 4,265   +41

    Speakers made in real wood cases. I'm taken back....to a time before I was born.


    Anyway back on topic. I was thinking of doing something similar for my case. I already have push pull config on my radiator. I'm trying to think of how many out take fans I have on my case and if it would help much but probably not. Its my little "war machine," as named by one of my younger brothers recently. I guess its something to look into once I get my case back from paint.
     
  21. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,734   +889

    I would argue, (as is my nature), that nothing so extreme is required to get the best out of this type of speaker. In fact, snob appeal aside, a transistor amplifier is better for reproducing recorded music than a tube amp. This is because the output stage is wired directly to the voice coil, and doesn't go through the step down transformer of a tube amp! The damping factor is much higher in a transistor amp, and this controls the speaker cone movement after the signal has ceased, and prevents overshoot. The reason that tube amps work so well for guitar, is that they have almost no damping factor, and this contributes to sustain.

    One of the biggest ironies or conundrum of high fidelity sound reproduction is, that you need incredibly precise equipment, to reproduce distortion accurately

    Old time loudspeakers such as these Altecs, have Alnico magnets, which are very potent, but tend to degauss a very high power levels. Since none of the three metals in Alnico are magnetic in and of themselves, they must be gaussed, and I'm thinking that high power levels must reverse that process.

    I had a pair of the JBL D-130s in in my row house, 40 watts a side was plenty to drive those speakers into the auditory pain level, without any audible distortion.

    The trick with the Altecs high end is obviously the horn loading. Bass reflex type cabinets can produce about 3% electrical to acoustic efficiency transfer. But, with horn loading, transfer efficiency can approach 30%!. The typical acoustic suspension design, has an efficiency of only 1%.

    The tragedy, and the irony of these early designs is this; these are the only speakers that will easily equal or surpass, the dynamic range available in digital sound reproduction. Past source material, (vinyl or tape), didn't really have much more than 50db dynamic range, so the only material these machines were designed for, and could benefit from, was live performance.

    Today, there is an inbred pack of morons at the recording consoles, who think the entire performance has to be crammed into the top 50db of a CD's dynamic range. One giant step backward, since now you have source material with only 50db of dynamic range once again, and plastic Tupperware "high fidelity speakers", to try and reproduce it. Garbage in = garbage out, still, after all these years.

    To keep this a bit on topic, do you think that Leslie organ speaker cabinets would benefit from extra fans....? :rolleyes: :wave:
     
  22. red1776

    red1776 Omnipotent Ruler of the Universe Topic Starter Posts: 5,897   +88

    okay,okay, I get it...you didn't have to take 6 paragraphs to call me a romantic *****!:p:haha:
    The Nakamichi PA7 and the model 19's are a technological mismatch I agree. The "imaging circuitry" (something perhaps you can expound on) in the PA7 is amazing. whilst listening to my classical, and or my Enya collection <<<<insert snickers here....You can here what row the violinist is sitting in...and what color his tie is.
    I do recall though that when CD's first came out, upping the dynamic range from 50db to what? 120db? they sounded like hell. I assume that this was from being remastered from glass or gold masters?
    Funny you should mention that, I had several fans permanently installed in the custom cabinet that housed my PA7, you should see the gigantic heat-sinks on this thing...its a thing of beauty.
     
  23. EXCellR8

    EXCellR8 The Conservative Posts: 2,278

    alright i'm going to attempt to save this train wreck of a thread with some more cooling input...

    red, have you tried using the rear exhaust port as an intake instead? the HAF-932 is plenty capable of venting hot air through the top via the 230mm fan, so having an additional intake right near the CPU cooler coupled with the 230mm side panel fan may actually yield better temps. your graphics cards are already working hard to vent the hot air out near the base and PSU, so you might as well have as many intakes as possible to equalize pressure and bring in cooler air into the CPU area.
     
  24. red1776

    red1776 Omnipotent Ruler of the Universe Topic Starter Posts: 5,897   +88

    .....hey now! :p:haha:

    I have not tried that on the 932, but the way I have mine setup, (see the CPU HS Mod) it would not be an option for me anyway. But not a bad idea under normal circumstances, those 230mm fans move a lot of air. I am really pleased with my temps and not having any problems, it was just a suggestion for folks who have say I intake, and one exhaust fan and running really hot. adding the fan on the other side of the exhaust, and PSU fan seems to pull out more than twice the volume of warm air.
     
  25. EXCellR8

    EXCellR8 The Conservative Posts: 2,278

    yes, it is true that the 932 doesn't really need any help with cooling; i was pleasantly surprised with how much air the 230mm's move around. my biggest improvement was having the radiator mounted inside the case as opposed to having it outside like when i had my mid-tower chassis. that was so awkward and the radiator was always really warm. even with two relayed exhaust fans (sort of like your have it set up) the reservoir and rad were always warm and i didn't really like how it was. with the 932, everything is internal and the radiator actually stays cooler. the only problem is i have to change the filter from time to time or it gets a bit plugged with dust.

    i like the idea with the converted HDD cooler though, as my PSU has a passive exhaust as well. there's always a lot of stagnant air back there.
     


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