TechSpot

I just got a 40% performance increase in games, read this

By Tha General
Jan 1, 2009
  1. Taken from anothe thread, which i posted in

    I recently made a thread( which i hope the admin deletes soon ) about how i thought i needed a new PSU, because for some reason my external HD, which is 500GB was putting a strain on my hardware and it didn't help , because i am using 90watts. So come to find out, well first i have a USB high speed 2.0 Pci card in my tower, and i had my external HD hook up to it. That was putting a seriously strain on my computer, i didn't even know it was doing it, until i restarted without it being plug in and played a game. So now i have the HD hook up to the back of my computer, which is a non 2.0 high speed port.

    Here are benchmarks , only tested out one game so far, but man this is amazing:

    Shade Wrath of angels

    1280X1024 Max Settings( NO AA, option is not available) w/ HD hook up to 2.0 PCI card =

    " 12-50 " Meaning, it starts at around 25, just standing there looking at a wall or in a inclose area, but once i start moving out in the open or fighting, it drops to 12 "

    1280X1024 Max Settings( NO AA, option is not available) w/ HD hook up to my tower

    " 30-80 " It doesn't struggle anymore lol, and i can move around and fight and it will stay at 30-45, then quickly go up to around 70-80.

    What i don't understand, how come when the external HD is hook up to the USB 2.0 card, it puts a strain on my computer, but when its hook up to the back of the tower, it doesn't?

    What do you guys think?
    This is awesome. Going to test out more games. :D

    EDIT: OMFG, GTA 3 IS running at 70-100fps now, i use to get 30-50. OMG LOL This is amazing. I am going to download Crysis demo and see how it works. I tested out 5 games so far, all 5 of them at max settings, no lag or anything, i didn't even know games move this damn fast hahaha. If i would known this, i would of never put the external HD in the usb 2.0 to began with. Its not like nothing is holding back the game anymore, its hard to explain, but damn.
    ............................................................

    Someone said i might of had a irq conflict. Its like i got a super boost in gaming or something, there is no more bottlenecking in games, none of that you know, frames dropping and pausing mess. This is amazing, i didn't even know my p3 can move this fast. Its like my 2400HD and CPU is being use at its full potential. So everyone, check our hardware , make sure nothing is hold it back.
     
  2. LinkedKube

    LinkedKube TechSpot Project Baby Posts: 3,481   +44

    Good for you, but being as 98% of us are running current video cards it doesnt help us much.
     
  3. CCT

    CCT TS Evangelist Posts: 2,653   +6

    I picked these 'transfer rates' off of various sites for general comparison.

    PCI transfer speed - 133 MB/s (1)(*) (PCI Bus-Mastering forces devices to share the PCI bus fairly, so a PCI ethernet card or sound chip or similar device using the PCI bus will slow the actual transfer rate considerably).

    1 ; MB/s - megabytes per second
    * ; 266 MB/s for 64 bit system

    PCI-X is a 64-bit version made for servers and the latest standard, PCI-X 2.0, permits a peak transfer rate of 4266 MB/s.

    PCI-Ex version 1. transfer rate = 250 MB/s.

    PCI-Ex version 2. transfer rate - 500 MB/s.

    Ata drives transfer speed = 133 MB/s.

    Sata 1 transfer speeds = 150 MB/s.

    Sata 2 transfer speeds = 300 MB/s.

    Higher speed drives give better performance because the data head passes the data more often, and 2-drive Raid 0 improves data transfer by opening up a second 'channel' for rapid access.

    The bottleneck then, I believe, is anything PCI dependant. You set up a Raid 0 with Sata 1 at 300 MB/s using a PCI-Ex 1. graphics card at 250 MB/s and then have to wait for the 133 MB/s PCI card to handle online data.

    At least, that seems to be the way it works.
     
  4. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    It just seem to have been the 500GB external HD hook up to my PCI 2.0 card, when its hook up to it, it slows everything down, but when its hook up to my tower, the 1.0 port, everything is moving faster. Has nothing to do with the card. The card wasn't holding me back.
     
  5. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 5,431   +28

    CCT is not referring to the card, but the bus the card is on.
     
  6. MetalX

    MetalX TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 1,388

    Since data transfer of ANYTHING on the PCI bus is shared, when that PCI USB card you have is being used by anything, it hogs bandwidth needed by your PCI video card. Therefore, if nothing else is being used in any of the PCI slots besides the video card, said video card will perform better.

    But like Supersmashbrada said, this doesn't help the vast majority of computer users who's video cards are NOT on the PCI bus. Nearly all PCs that have a discrete video card have it installed in a PCI-E x16 slot, or an AGP slot.

    Also, judging from your system specs, it looks like it's past time for an upgrade...
     
  7. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    Well i guess the 500GB external HD can't run good on the USB 2.0 card , i put my 2 USB controllers in their instead and everything is working just fine.

    But see this is what i don't understand. When the external HD is hook up to the USB PCI card, which is 2.0 speed, it slows everything down. But when i put the external HD too my tower, the 1.0 usb port, everything is running about i would say 60% faster.

    I am not getting anymore bottlenecking anymore. I wish i would of notice this months ago. This is amazing tho. I am getting like 30-80, sometimes 224fps in games which i couldn't even get 20 at now. I have a game which i couldn't play at all, i mean i could, but it will crawl big time, now it runs at around 29-55fps now. So i guess having the external HD hook to my tower in the 1.0 spot, is the best option.

    peace
     
  8. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    It hogs bandwidth from the Card and the CPU. Its like My computer is free now. The USB 2.0 card is fine, because i have my controllers hook up to it, 2 of them. But i guess the External HD was too much, because as i said, its hook up to the back of my tower now, the 1.0 and everything is working fine.

    Well you never know, all because someone is using AGP or PCIE, doesn't mean if you have alot of junk in your rig, you won't gain peformance if you remove stuff or put stuff in other places.

    As for my computer, upgrading, etc. I will get to it, but ever since i got this performance increase, i am kinda pushing back on my secondary rig which i plan to buy. I have been talking about buying a secondary computer for the newer games since late 2004, just not really ready to do so yet. So i am gaming with a Pentium III, in 2009 baby!

    But just to make this very clear, i am know what rig i am buying, its 60 dollars. Its a gateway, Intel Pentium Dual Core 2.4ghz, and i will be buying a 8600GT PCI card and a backup Radeon 1GB Diamond 4670. But i am in no rush to buy it, i will buy it, when i get ready i guess.

    peace
     
  9. LinkedKube

    LinkedKube TechSpot Project Baby Posts: 3,481   +44

     
  10. MetalX

    MetalX TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 1,388

    I agree with supersmash.

    Also, just because someone is using AGP or PCI-E for their graphics card DOES mean that taking out PCI cards will have a negligible effect on performance.
     
  11. CCT

    CCT TS Evangelist Posts: 2,653   +6

    USB respective transfer rates are specified as follow;

    USB 1.1: Low-Speed (1.5 Mbps:LS),Full-Speed (12 Mbps:FS)

    USB 2.0: Low-Speed (1.5 Mbps:LS),Full-Speed (12 Mbps:FS),Hi-Speed (480 Mbps :HS)


    Since Mb/s (Megabits/second) is kind of meaningless, try these;


    1.5 Mb/s = .2 MB/s (Megabytes/second)
    12 Mb/s = 1.5 MB/s
    480 Mb/s = 60. MB/s


    That being said, tests have shown USB connected hard drives have a hard time maintaining one-way transfers of over 30 MB/s.


    So, if you were getting a really slow operation connected to your PCI USB card, check the card Bios to ensure USB 2.0

    Highspeed mode is enabled.
     
  12. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    Thanks for the infomation. But i hope you understand that i am running a Intel Pentium III, there is no option in my bios dealing with USB 2.0.
    The bottlenecking only show up when i had my External HD hook up to the USB PCI card., but having it in the back of my tower, which is 1.1 everything moves about 60% faster, and i get no more bottlenecking in gaming.
     
  13. tweakboy

    tweakboy TS Guru Posts: 467

    That's a wierd thread! I believe you got the gains, but this doesn't make too much sense.

    If anything I fault the usb adapter you have, or possible its a junk external drive, u did say which make.

    Or it's mobo's fault or something,,!! hmmm
     
  14. CCT

    CCT TS Evangelist Posts: 2,653   +6

    1 - what your CPU runs at has NO DIRECT Bearing on the operation of the Bios

    2 - Bios has Everything to do with USB

    3 - I DO read posts and know you have a PIII

    4 - PCI bus architecture has MUCH to do with USB interface operation

    5 - if you install a usb PCI card in an older mobo and expect unsupported usb 2.0 operation, good luck!

    I don't know what you wanted to hear - obviously NOT what I said.

    SO! Ignore me (there is even a feature here for that).

    :)
     
  15. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    But the external HD works just fine and doesn't bottleneck the computer , its in my USB 1.1 slot now. But for some odd reason it slows down performance when hook up the PCI 2.0 card. I have my 2 USB controllers hook up the 2.0 PCI card and there is no bottleneck. I am kinda confused myself, it works better in 1.1, but bottlenecks the whole rig in 2.0.

    Wait, hold up, what are you talking about. I agree with what you are saying, but i don't understand the bios thing. You said i should check my bios for usb 2.0 options, right?
    ??????????????
     
  16. LinkedKube

    LinkedKube TechSpot Project Baby Posts: 3,481   +44

    Can we just drop this thread before someone gets insulted. Tha General is happy, we cant help him much as he consistently post weird issues that almost seem impossible to understand or figure out. Lastly the information isnt really helpful to the community at this point.
     
  17. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    Supersmashbrada i have no idea why CCT said what he said to began with, i understood what he said, and i agree, i was just wondering what he meant about looking in the bios for infomation dealing with 2.0 in USB. I said it wasn't there, my bios menu is kinda empty you know lol, nothing to see there really. Thats all i was saying.

    Why he flipping out, i have no idea :(

    Anyways, i was just sharing some information that there is no more bottlenecking with my computer anymore. Just excited so i told everyone, no biggie.
    Now about this news helping other folks, well you never know, there may be something on someone's else rig that may be putting a strain on your computer, so i said just look around and start testing, thats all.

    peace and cheers :)
     
  18. CCT

    CCT TS Evangelist Posts: 2,653   +6

    I suggested you check the PCI cards' Bios - that is exactly what I said. There has to be some way of checking it actually uses High Speed rather than just Full Speed. I have read where some companies mislead people about that.

    I don't think offering positive suggestions is 'flipping out', even when people don't read what I write.

    Anyway, have fun.
     
  19. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    Alright check my pci card bios, i will look into it. Everything is working fine now tho, there is a slightly delay when my external hd is hook up to my 1.1 speed, but once it loads up, everything is fast, not as fast as 2.0 , but you know :)

    thanks :)
     
  20. CCT

    CCT TS Evangelist Posts: 2,653   +6

    Not to beat a dead horse BUT, the link below is a list of Intel mobo's that support USB 2.0 .

    http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/CS-009024.htm

    IF your board is an Intel then it is worth checking it out.

    If it only uses the Intel chipset you note in your specs, then we would need the actual mobo make and model.
     
  21. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    Thats interesting infomation. Looking at the Motherboards, mine is not on the list, my mb is here:
    http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/810/

    I will check in my bios tho, just to make sure. But my mb supports 1.1
    When i use the USB PCI 2.0 Card, it works just fine, i can add any device to it, but the 500GB external HD. Adding the External HD to the USB .2.O PCI card slows down my whole system and bottlenecks games.

    I guessing adding the 500GB HD to the USB. 2.0 PCI card puts a serious strain on my rig. So i will just leave it be in the 1.1 slot, which works perfect :)
     
  22. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    I think i found the problem. It seems like when adding the USB 2.0 PCI card, it may work fine, however when i install the External HD up to it, there is a resource conflict, which is causing the bottleneck. That seems to be it by looking over a few other threads in google.

    So having the external HD hook up to the back of my tower, which is 1.1 seems to be the best option.

    Thanks for all help tho :)
     
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