IBM issues ultimatum to managers: relocate for in-office return or leave the company

[redgarl]

You are Assuming just because somebody said that companies have rights, that they are flipping burgers somewhere which is just making an *** out of yourself. I work at one of the most expensive luxury hotels in Upstate S.C. and I enjoying going to work ever day and giving our customers the best quality service. If some people are not happy that that they have to return to the office then quit and find another job where you will be happy. That really is your only option if you don't want to go back to work. But my point was from a legal standpoint it's going to really hard to convince a jury in a lawsuit that it's unfair for an employer to ask you to come in to work. Good Luck with that.

Legal or not, it doesn't matter. I work on my computer on our network and I am doing project management for cyber projects.

EVERYTHING I do is software based. I don't need to be on premise unless there is an operational requirement which is only 1-2% of the time.

The only reason why I am going to office every Tuesday is for managing someone insecurities...

I was doing my entire job from home during the pandemic, and there was no difference.

 

[redgarl]

That's a lot of good reason, from your perspective, to continue WFH. Doesnt really answer my question though. If companies start demanding office work, do you plan on competing with a larger labor pool for a smaller number of remote jobs? Not sure why you took issue with the word wage, bruh its a word just chill.
My counterpoint: if you can do your job, fully remote, why would I pay you a large western wage when I can pay someone from SE asia $20k a year for the same work? It happened to tech support and phone banks in the 90s, there's no reason it cant happen to you. H1Bs are brought in to replace IT talent all the time.

Because, in our fields, foreign degrees worth nothing.

I am an Electrical Engineer pal. I have a P.Eng, a PMP and many master certificates. I literally saved my employer around 50M$ in 3 years because I know what I do.

My job is to solve THEIR problems. They need me more than I need them.

If I was doing my job in the private sector, I would earn 3 times my salary. However, I take working from home and having a LoE of 20 hours a week over 60 hours a week and no life.

 

[Rocky4040]

It's easy if you had a job that was remote work away from the office before covid then I guess you should keep working remotely. If you had a job that you had to drive into the office every day and work from the office before covid then I guess you either get off your butt and go to work or stay at home and lose your job. Pretty easy to figure it all out.

 

[holydiver]

The corpo boomer mafia wants us back into a cubicle, just say no and quit! There are plenty of other companies with managers who don't have a inferiority complex.

 

[Shaitan]

So we don't care about the planet anymore?!
Three years ago, everyone was crying happy tears over the planet saving done via staying at home, no more pollution from the cars and so on.
The big companies were happy the working productivity is all but the same, and GOING GREEN BY STAYING HOME was the word of the day.
Well, look at this, now you MUST come to the office, waste a good portion of the day, get involved with people you'd rather talk only remote to, spend a sh!tload of money on clothes, footwear, gas and so on.
NO, not because of the productivity, NO, not because of the planet choking in fumes from our daily travels.
Oh, look, those don't matter anymore if THE PROFITS aren't as high as possible.
Not to dwelve into conspiracy theory, but now the cars are good for the environment if I have to come to work?
Effin hypocrites!!!

 

[toooooot]

So we don't care about the planet anymore?!
Three years ago, everyone was crying happy tears over the planet saving done via staying at home, no more pollution from the cars and so on.
The big companies were happy the working productivity is all but the same, and GOING GREEN BY STAYING HOME was the word of the day.
Well, look at this, now you MUST come to the office, waste a good portion of the day, get involved with people you'd rather talk only remote to, spend a sh!tload of money on clothes, footwear, gas and so on.
NO, not because of the productivity, NO, not because of the planet choking in fumes from our daily travels.
Oh, look, those don't matter anymore if THE PROFITS aren't as high as possible.
Not to dwelve into conspiracy theory, but now the cars are good for the environment if I have to come to work?
Effin hypocrites!!!

Care for environment must come from ordinary people, not those traveling on their personal jets to meet with other people like them to preach about saving the earth.

 

[tancabean]

Everyone’s the hero in their own story. Just because you are super engaged and productive wfh it doesn’t mean everyone else is. I’ve been on both sides of this debate as someone who enjoys wfh but also manages a large global team. There’s no substitute for team building and problem solving in person. On the other hand it’s kinda dumb to sit in an office on zoom all day. Rather do that from a tropical island with good WiFi.

 

[gamerk2]

While I note I am against mandating employees back to the office, it is important to note, as the article mentions, that this mandate is for MANAGERS.

Now yes, I've worked with people on remote sites and you can absolutely manage from a distance. But Managers do need to be on-site more in general, so I do get where IBM is coming from.

That being said...this feels heavy handed enough where this might be a backdoor way for IBM to shed some dead weight without causing too much of a ruckus (eg: layoffs due to people not wanting to be at work looks nicer then layoffs because the budget is so bad). And yes, this is how upper management thinks at places like this.

 

[redgarl]

Everyone’s the hero in their own story. Just because you are super engaged and productive wfh it doesn’t mean everyone else is. I’ve been on both sides of this debate as someone who enjoys wfh but also manages a large global team. There’s no substitute for team building and problem solving in person. On the other hand it’s kinda dumb to sit in an office on zoom all day. Rather do that from a tropical island with good WiFi.

That's talking like a real insecure manager.

This mentality is absolutely false... and you know why? Because I am a project manager, so I can tell you.

Not accommodating will just put your employees to work against you. The enterprise culture is the biggest lie of them all. In the end, people are not living to work, they are working to live. They will let you suffer when a crunch is going to happen, especially in our field where some periods can be really quiet or really busy.

At the end of the day, the only thing I care is the deliverables on my desk. That you have flexible working hours or not, is of no interest.

Like I said before, Hybrid workplace are absolutely the worst. Everything is broken. So if you can do 99% of the job from WFH, then just do it and set those operational requirement meetings in consequence.

Making people to come in for no specific reason is a sure way to get the people to leave... and this is ultimately what I believe IBM is trying to accomplish here.

 

[tancabean]

That's talking like a real insecure manager.

This mentality is absolutely false... and you know why? Because I am a project manager, so I can tell you.

Not accommodating will just put your employees to work against you. The enterprise culture is the biggest lie of them all. In the end, people are not living to work, they are working to live. They will let you suffer when a crunch is going to happen, especially in our field where some periods can be really quiet or really busy.

At the end of the day, the only thing I care is the deliverables on my desk. That you have flexible working hours or not, is of no interest.

Like I said before, Hybrid workplace are absolutely the worst. Everything is broken. So if you can do 99% of the job from WFH, then just do it and set those operational requirement meetings in consequence.

Making people to come in for no specific reason is a sure way to get the people to leave... and this is ultimately what I believe IBM is trying to accomplish here.

Sorry to break it to you but project mgrs are way down on the totem pole and have little visibility into how companies or their employees work. It’s certainly not a badge that validates your opinion.

Every company and project and employee situation is unique. Your experience is valid but doesn’t speak for everyone.

 

[GoldenGoat]

Hopefully Red Hat declines to move and is able to separate from IBM (joking, but also not joking, but joking).

 

[GoldenGoat]

Well some people hired into companies during the pandemic to a fully-remote job, when they live nowhere near an office. The job was not listed as remote until a certain date. They are changing the deal. Everyone assumes it is a return to the office, when these people have never been to an office in the first place. Relocating can be costly and if the company wants to make this demand then they should pay the bill. Not ask you to pay the bill because they are changing the deal. Companies are using this as a way to lay people off without having to pay severance. And some fools on the internet are supporting this because they prefer to work in person and can't see what is really going on.

 

[inoital]

Maybe this is just a ploy to get voluntary departures, thereby avoiding the cost of layoffs. Many companies have used relocations in the past to trim their staffing. This could be the new technique without requiring the hassle of moving an operation.