TechSpot

Improve video without an upgrade?

By Goofy Newfie
May 13, 2002
  1. Goofy Newfie

    Goofy Newfie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 211



    Is that in Win98? I have XP. I can't find TNT2 in Settings>Advanced.

    As for the numbers, do you mean this?>64-bit PCI NV5(15) w/32mbSDR memory

    Stock speeds are: Core=>125.0, Memory=>148.9
     
  2. JAV

    JAV TS Rookie Posts: 264

    Goofy,

    Yes I was referring to 98SE. I was hoping XP was the same. :rolleyes:

    That is the #'s we need, but if you have the driver # listed under 'version' in Riva that would be helpful too. 28.32 is a stable driver that has shown good oc capabilities for me. 23.11 was ok & 29.20 ran fine for 6-8 weeks until recently. The 'new' 29.42 doen't seem to oc well on my MX 400. ;)

    125 core, hmm. 8% oc will get you 135. Work your way slowly up to that & check w/FD for improvements. 148.9 is 150 & you can prolly get a max of 15-18% there, or 172-177 on the memory. Again: go slow & check each change for improvements using FD. :)

    I've found that Riva oc's the driver quite well & that, in turn, oc's the hardware. Ocing the hardware doesn't oc the driver tho'. Slowly increase the speeds & when FD shows no further increase: stop. :cool:

    HTH & post your results, plz. :D

    PS: This thread has more views than some of the 'stickies': we're being watched. he he
     
  3. Goofy Newfie

    Goofy Newfie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 211

    After setting the core to 127 and the memory to 150, i restarted, tried the benchmark, and Windows went kerplooie! Upon restart, Windows stated that the vid card caused the problem. What gives? I set the card back to defaults, and all's well.:blackeye:
     
  4. JAV

    JAV TS Rookie Posts: 264

    Goofy,

    Uhhh. :(

    That isn't even a oc, really. What driver are you running? I'm gonna do an 'oc' search on your card to see what others have gotten out of it. :cool:

    I'll be back ...
     
  5. Goofy Newfie

    Goofy Newfie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 211

    drivers in use...

    The driver is: 2.7.2.0
    Written 1/15/02
     
  6. JAV

    JAV TS Rookie Posts: 264

    Hi Goofy,

    Try the 28.32 driver: www.guru3d.com. I've had real good luck ocing w/ it.

    I've searched the web & Aopens site. I've found TNT2 M64 cards w/higher clocks than your card 'stock'! I'm thinking it is a driver based problem & hopefully the 28,32 will allow you an oc on that card. Is that 2.7.2.0 the Aopen driver that came w/the card on CD or did you dl it somewhere?
     
  7. Goofy Newfie

    Goofy Newfie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 211

    That driver...


    is the Aopen driver that came with the card. I'll give the new driver a go. Although I don't think that the vid-card driver caused the crash...I think that it has something to do with FD. I ran it after restoring the card defaults and it still caused Windows to bomb. I think I will just try the card at around 135 core and about 170 memory and see how it performs. As for FD, I don't want to go through all that crash-crap again.

    Thanks for the info, buddy! Let you know how things go.

    Goof:giddy:
     
  8. Goofy Newfie

    Goofy Newfie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 211

    Heat problems?

    Since my last post, I have made some changes to my rig. I removed the second HD which was sandwiched next to the primary HD with no separation(and hence no air circulation). I added two extra system cooling fans and situated them so that one blows directly accross the vid-card, and the other directly on to the HD/memory DIMMS. I'm still having peculiar problems with my system. Upon Windows shutdown, the system powers off automatically without having to depress a power switch. However, when it has been up and running for extended periods of time(5 hours or more), after windows shuts down, the power stays on, and a beeping alarm starts ringing. I am forced to shut down power to the system manually by hitting the switch. When the system has only been running for a short period of time, everything shuts down normally. Is this a heat problem? A friend suggested that my system may have a utility built in (on mobo) that may prevent system shutdown after a certain maximum temp has been exceeded. How would Ibe able to discover if this is the case? If it isn't, what else could be the cause? If I add any more fans, I will be able to keep my beer cold in the darn thing. Any suggestions are appreciated.

    Goofer :confused:

    My Specs:

    Gigabyte 6VEML w/Via Apollo PLE 133 chipset
    Celeron 1.0GHZ CPU
    256 MB PC 133 SDRAM
    18.0 GB WD HD@7200rpm
    Nvidia Riva TNT2 M64 32MB Video -Driver # 29.42
    50X CD-rom
    12X10X32X Aopen CD-RW
    On-board Audio
     
  9. StormBringer

    StormBringer TS Rookie Posts: 2,871

    How is the airflow through the case? Does it flow up and out? or are all the fans blowing in?

    You want the hot air to flow in a natural upward direction while pushing it out of the case. The easiest way to do this is to have a fan(or fans) in the lower part of the front of the case(your case may have a clip there for a fan if it doesn't have a fan there) blowing air into the case. At the back of the case you want your PSU fan to blow out(some of these are installed to blow in you need to reverse it if it is) I would also recommend another fan just below the PSU if you have room, also blowing out.

    You also need to make sure that no cables are obstructing airflow in very hot areas, you can either use round cables or try to arange them to an area that is out of the way of airflow.

    Another thing, don't blow one fan toward another, this will cause turbulence.
     
  10. Goofy Newfie

    Goofy Newfie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 211

    I have two 80mm case fans mounted directly to the bottom of the case blowing air upwards. I have another 80mm mounted at the back of the case directly below the power supply sucking air out. It shouldn't be overheating.
     
  11. JAV

    JAV TS Rookie Posts: 264

    Hey Goofy,

    I notice no mention of a CPU fan. :rolleyes:

    If you are locking due to heat: CPU, GPU, RAM &/or chipset. When it locks, can you touch the vid card? Is it *hot*? How 'bout the others? Need to pinpoint what is getting hot (if it is) & then proceed from there.

    I just noticed you have a VIA chipset. Do you have the latest 4in1 drivers? Very important, I hear. ;) If the chipset is getting hot, you can attach a heatsink to it (provided there is room) & if it is the CPU: ORB time possibly. If you don't have a CPU fan & only a hs on it: you really do need a fan on it now that the card/games are demanding more out of it then the 3dBlade demanded, IMO.

    I've had 3DMark lock (lots), GLExcess (a few) but only once out of literally 100's of runs of FD. :blush: I do seem to have the best of luck w/these programs tho'. :cool:

    Does Gigabyte offer a utility to monitor temps? That would be one way to check the 'heat' issue. This may work on that board: http://mbm.livewiredev.com/

    C'ya 'round,
     
     
  12. Goofy Newfie

    Goofy Newfie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 211


    Yes, there is a CPU fan. I'll let you know how things progress after I try out a few of your ideas.

    Later!

    Goofer:grinthumb
     
  13. JAV

    JAV TS Rookie Posts: 264

    I had to re-read the thread to remember if you went AGP or PCI card. I'm wondering if the VIA AGP functions are still enabled & are dragging the system down. Usually just installing the card activates an automatic shutdown of the on-board graphics, but ...

    Arris had an interesting post on his Gigabyte experience & his system locking too. I've read on other sites the VIA chips are problematic.

    Here's a source for excellent BIOS info. I'm not up on the details of BIOS adjustments & will be reading the info there too. Have you installed the latest AMI Award BIOS for that board?

    Here's the BIOS explained & I recommend it to anyone that reads this: http://www.itcp.net/~awsh/Speed_Demonz/BIOS_Guide/BIOS_Guide_Index.htm It's very long & highly detailed, as it should be! :grinthumb

    C'ya l8tr, :D

    PS: thought you did have a CPU fan, but had to ask.
     
  14. puck_andy

    puck_andy TS Rookie Posts: 38

    Conductive paste

    Some chips come with a hs, but then they forget to properly connect it. I don't know how yours is connected, but on another thread there was talk of a conductive glue/paste for hs that let more heat transfer. Anybody have an opinion on this stuff?
     
  15. Goofy Newfie

    Goofy Newfie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 211

    Re: benchmark

    Since then, I have a new monitor, 17" flat-screen. Here are the benchmark results with the new monitor(and it didn't crash).

    Display Adapter Benchmark
    This module performs display adapter benchmark in your system.



    Benchmark Result
    Random Pixels 466 KPixels/s
    Lines 18,000 Lines/s
    Circles 13,341 Circles/s
    Rectangles 38,790 Rectangles/s
    Texts 517,008 Chars/s
    FloodFills 547,840 KPixels/s
    Draw 33,961 KPixels/s

    Benchmark Info
    Device Name NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Model 64/Model 64 Pro
    Device ID \\.\DISPLAY1
    Benchmark Mode 800 x 600 pixels
    Color Depth 16 Bit

    Strange, though, that my Lines and Floodfills are down. The Lines #'s are down significantly. Any reasons why?
     
  16. JAV

    JAV TS Rookie Posts: 264

    Hmmm. :rolleyes:

    I tried figuring out FD & even wrote FD for some help in deciphering the scores. Sad to say they haven't replied & I have been unable to determine defineative 'tweeks' that affect the scores 'across the board'. :(

    My own 'experiments' concluded that raising the core clock on the card affected the random pixels, lines & flood fills upwards. Memory ocing affected the circles, rect. & draw. Both had limits & going too high actually brought #'s down.

    I would not have imagined a monitor change would have affected your card as it did. Your 'random' increasing where it is > wow! especially when the lines dropped & didn't go up with it. Now I'm wondering about MY 3yr old monitor. :blush:

    I'm stumped, Goofy. I can't imagine the refresh rate of the monitor would have the affects we're seeing & if it does, why? What refresh rate did you run & what are you running now?

    I'm gonna try different refresh rates & see if it affects FD similiarly here.

    Do you have FRAPS? It is a frame rate counter: www.fraps.com I should have mentioned it before & we'd have actual STBC #'s to compare against. Have you noticed any improvements in STBC since the monitor?

    HTH,
     
  17. Goofy Newfie

    Goofy Newfie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 211

    Jav:

    First of all, I am unsure of the monitor refresh rates. How do you determine them?

    As for STBC, it works awesome! It gets just a little slow when I am battling 15 Romulan dogs in Battle Mode, because of the extra graphics and AI needed to run them, but otherwise it has been flawless. I am thinking of upgrading the video again to a GF2 after I get working for a while(just finishing University).
    I'll give the FRAPS a go. Don't forget to let me know how the refresh stuff is done.

    Goof :cool:
     
  18. JAV

    JAV TS Rookie Posts: 264

    Goof,

    Go into control panel > display > settings > advanced > adapter & there is a box to change refresh rate.

    Those Warbirds are tough! Birds of Prey go down easier. :D 15 ships (including mine) is the max I can run w/o staggers & depending on the intensity of the 'space graphics' even that stutters in heavy combat. I'm a Celeron 500 tho'.

    I'll try the different refresh rates tonight & let you know what FD changes (if any) they make on my system. ;)
     
  19. Goofy Newfie

    Goofy Newfie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 211

    Jav:

    The fefresh rate is 60Hz. Is that the industry standard? Does it need to be changed? Is it safe to change it? I found the birds of prey pretty soft once you gave them the 'what for' with a few quantum torpedoes. The warbirds are hard as granite, and those Kessok buggers are nasty. It's a great game, though. I hope they come out with more mission disks for it.

    Goofy
     
  20. JAV

    JAV TS Rookie Posts: 264

    Well I ran FD @ 60, 70, 72, 75 & 85mhz RR & really didn't notice any significant differences. :confused:

    I didn't try 'optimal' or 'adapter default' because my monitor won't support over 85mhz @ 1024x768 & I don't know what optimal/default is.

    I run 85mhz 24/7 w/o adverse affects. You should check your monitor specs (manual) for supported mhz @ the different resolutions (6x8, 10x7, 12x9, etc) & run what works best for you.

    I think you're at the 'tweek & test' stage for your comp. Tweek it, start Fraps, open STBC & set-up a battle & watch the fps. Change the tweek & do it again w/the same battle. Trial & error 'til you achieve high fps & stability.

    I will suggest you close all programs not needed (anti-virus, firewall, etc.) when you do the tests. :grinthumb

    Have you run 3D Mark 2001 or GLExcess benchmarks? They are big dl's (do it @ night when you're sleeping), but they are helpful to see the results (fps wise) of your tweeking. Guy at 3D has a 800PIII & ran 259 w/a TNT card. :dead: I'm thinking you can break 1000 easy.

    HTH,

    JAV
    GBA!
     
  21. Goofy Newfie

    Goofy Newfie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 211

    now using different video card

    Benchmark Result
    Random Pixels 300 KPixels/s
    Lines 19,666 Lines/s
    Circles 12,140 Circles/s
    Rectangles 48,252 Rectangles/s
    Texts 476,279 Chars/s
    FloodFills 1,569,760 KPixels/s
    Draw 27,750 KPixels/s

    Benchmark Info
    Device Name NVIDIA GeForce DDR
    Device ID \\.\DISPLAY1
    Benchmark Mode 800 x 600 pixels
    Color Depth 16 Bit

    This is a 32 mb ddr card using agp. the results are not a great deal more that the old pci card, except for the flood fills.
     
  22. Goofy Newfie

    Goofy Newfie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 211

    Benchmark Result
    Random Pixels 366 KPixels/s
    Lines 219,333 Lines/s
    Circles 13,115 Circles/s
    Rectangles 65,058 Rectangles/s
    Texts 508,456 Chars/s
    FloodFills 9,837,760 KPixels/s
    Draw 27,852 KPixels/s

    Benchmark Info
    Device Name NVIDIA GeForce DDR
    Device ID \\.\DISPLAY1
    Benchmark Mode 800 x 600 pixels
    Color Depth 16 Bit


    Last Benchmark Friday, Feb 7, 2003 01:38 pm


    No changes made to system. Why are the results so different from the last benchmark?
     
  23. Greeno

    Greeno TS Rookie Posts: 394

    Display Adapter Benchmark
    This module performs display adapter benchmark in your system.



    Benchmark Result
    Random Pixels 933 KPixels/s
    Lines 123,333 Lines/s
    Circles 28,630 Circles/s
    Rectangles 142,848 Rectangles/s
    Texts 1,049,152 Chars/s
    FloodFills 5,512,480 KPixels/s
    Draw 47,171 KPixels/s

    Benchmark Info
    Device Name NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4600
    Device ID \\.\DISPLAY1
    Benchmark Mode 800 x 600 pixels
    Color Depth 16 Bit
     
  24. Greeno

    Greeno TS Rookie Posts: 394

    Operating System System Model
    Windows XP Professional (build 2600) No details available
    Processor a Main Circuit Board b
    2400 megahertz Intel Pentium 4
    8 kilobyte primary memory cache
    512 kilobyte secondary memory cache Board: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. 8PE667U
    Bus Clock: 133 megahertz
    BIOS: Award Software International, Inc. 6.00 PG 10/16/2002
    Drives Memory Modules c
    202.97 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
    66.08 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

    DVD-ROM [CD-ROM drive]
    HL-DT-ST CD-RW GCE-8400B [CD-ROM drive]
    Image Simulation SCSI CdRom Device [CD-ROM drive]
    3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]

    MAXTOR 6L080J4 (80.05 GB) [Hard drive] -- drive 2
    Maxtor 6Y060L0 (61.49 GB) [Hard drive] -- drive 1
    Maxtor 6Y060L0 (61.49 GB) [Hard drive] -- drive 0 512 Megabytes Installed Memory

    Slot 'A0' has 512 MB
    Slot 'A1' is Empty
    Local Drive Volumes

    c: (on drive 0) 30.73 GB 21.87 GB free
    d: (on drive 1) 61.48 GB 37.11 GB free
    e: (on drive 2) 80.03 GB 3.00 GB free
    f: (on drive 0) 30.73 GB 4.09 GB free



    My spec which I achieved that score/result if you're interested.
     
  25. Goofy Newfie

    Goofy Newfie TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 211

    Seeing you have a 2.4 P4 and I am running a Celeron 1.0, I am not surprised. What kinf of vid card are you using? I scored 1960 on 3D Mark 2001.
     
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