Improve video without an upgrade?

Here's my Display Adapter Benchmark results ...

First off, thanks for pointing me towards the Fresh Diagnose tool. Wow! When it creates a report it REALLY creates a report!

Okie dokie, since you offered ... here's the results of the Display Adapter Benchmark test.

Benchmark Result
Random Pixels 633 KPixels/s
Lines 130,000 Lines/s
Circles 9,154 Circles/s
Rectangles 26,383 Rectangles/s
Texts 360,591 Chars/s
FloodFills 4,211,200 KPixels/s
Draw 14,301 KPixels/s


Benchmark Info
Device Name NVIDIA Aladdin TNT2
Device ID \\.\Display1
Benchmark Mode 800 x 600 pixels
Color Depth 16 Bit

And below is my current Computer Profile Summary according to Belarc Advisor program:

Operating System System Model
Windows Millennium Edition Manufactured and supported by: MDG COMPUTERS Inc.
Asset Tag: 0123ABC
Processor a Main Circuit Board
900 megahertz Intel Pentium III
32 kilobyte primary memory cache
256 kilobyte secondary memory cache Board: Acer Laboratories Inc. ALi 1631 1.0
Bus Clock: 100 megahertz
BIOS: American Megatrends Inc. 62710 07/15/97
Drives Memory Modules
20.40 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
8.01 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

SAMSUNG CD-ROM SC-152C
Generic floppy disk drive (3.5")

SAMSUNG SV2042H (20.41 GB) [Hard drive] -- drive 0 240 Megabytes Installed Memory
128 Megabyte Module Size - 2 Installed
One Memory Socket is Empty
Local Drive Volumes

c: (on drive 0) 19.58 GB 7.72 GB free
d: (on drive 0) 813 MB 288 MB free

Network Drives

Controllers Printers
Standard Floppy Disk Controller
ALi M5229 PCI Bus Master IDE Controller
Primary IDE controller (dual fifo)
Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo) Acrobat PDFWriter on LPT1:
APOLLO P2500/2600 Series on \\Debbie\apollo

Display
NVIDIA Aladdin TNT2 [Display adapter]
Plug and Play Monitor
Bus Adapters Multimedia
ALi PCI to USB Open Host Controller Creative Sound Blaster PCI128 (WDM)
Gameport Joystick (no joystick connected)
Communications Other Devices
SiS 900 PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter
Network Card MAC Address: 000:09:6E:5F:50 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard
HID-compliant mouse
Microsoft USB IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0 (IntelliPoint)
ATM LAN Emulation driver
USB Root Hub

Of course I am interested in obtaining better graphics overall. However, what I'm most interested in is upping the fps of my graphical display which presently hovers around 20-30 fps during online play of Day of Defeat Half-Life mod over cable. I play in 640x480, OpenGL mode.

It will definitely be interesting to see a comparison of these results with those of your GF2 MX400. Much appreciated. Cheers! :grinthumb

Comrade N,

Glad you like it! For such a small program: it rocks, IMO! Pass it on, my friend.

Here's my MX400 specs on a Celeron 500 @ 66mhz:

Benchmark Result
Random Pixels 433 KPixels/s
Lines 314,666 Lines/s
Circles 4,828 Circles/s
Rectangles 13,066 Rectangles/s
Texts 192,956 Chars/s
FloodFills 2,872,480 KPixels/s
Draw 19,046 KPixels/s

Benchmark Info
Device Name NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400
Device ID \\.\Display1\U0
Benchmark Mode 800 x 600 pixels
Color Depth 16 Bit

You're ~1/3 more on random pixels, but 2/3 less on lines. Almost dbl my circles & do dbl my rects. Text (who cares, no one can read that fast) is more & your flood fills are 1/3 more. Draw is ~1/3 less tho'. Hmmm.

I'm just now seeing others results & haven't reached any definative conclusions, but I'd say your card is pretty good in comparison. I don't know if a MX400 would be worth the $$.

Your P3 is much faster than my Celeron, it also has the SSE2 & SIMD extensions I don't have & the 100mhz bus. How much that is making a difference, I'm really not sure.

My thoughts: GF4 MX 420, consider clocking that P3 to 133mhz (many P3's run 133) & provide adequate cooling. There is a link in this thread for a $67US GF4 MX420 that you might consider.

I have plans for a P3 900, so this matters to me too. I recently dl'd BelArc, also. Small world, eh?

Whatever you decide: plz stay in touch here & let us know how it is working. :grinthumb

PS: My card is oc'd & I'm a little

I am very surprised...

I did not expect to see better results for my card in any category, so I am very surprised and a tad happy.

But I would imagine it isn't my card per se that is responsible, but my faster processor and some other factors, as you point out.

So that begs the question, "Would I have gotten higher scores across the board if I had the same graphics card as you?".

Hmmmmm

I really appreciate you doing this comparrison. I feel a little :blush: too because I had thought my graphic performance was probably quite substandard (thus giving me an excuse for my substandard game performance). Now it looks like I'm going to have to accept greater personal responsibility for my lousy playing.:blackeye:

Hmmmmm (again) - I'll look for the GF4 MX 420 link and if it is compatible with PCI slot, that would definitely be at the top of my list (would work out to be around $115 Can. with tax).

Of course, I wonder how much performance loss results from having to use a PCI-based card as opposed to and AGP?

Here's the blurb on the GF4 MX 420 from Comp-U-Plus:

Comrade N,

My pleasure & thank you for taking the time to BM your card & post the info here. I'm trying to get some others to do the same & then more of us can 'see' the differences & we'll know whether a vid card, CPU, mobo &/or RAM will be the best purchase for each of us.

I added 192mb of PC-133 to my system 2 days ago (512 total now) & re-BM'd the card. I can't break the 433/k random pixels, but I have achieved (small) increases on all the others: floodfills is over 3mil now. I also increaded my FSB to 74mhz (lost my sound @ that setting) and the CPU clocked to 558 & the vid card #'s went up.

I'm pretty sure a P3 @ 100/133 will give me big improvements & that is the plan.

PCI vs AGP: I've spoken to PNY, VisionTek & Pine & all 3 told me the Ti cards are optimized for AGP & that is why there aren't any PCI Ti cards. Added hardware *could* make them PCI, but the costs associated would make the cards $$$. The MX cards are basically equal (PCI vs AGP) according to them. Creative/3DLabs makes 'professional' PCI cards (Oxygen) & they are supposed to be the best for CAD. I've 'heard' they have the best drivers in the vid card business too. :grinthumb

I recently spoke to PNY & was informed that they plan on a 'High Performance' PCI card after the release of the 'new' nVidia chip (NV30) & to look for its release in the 4th quarter of this year. I was told it would be comparable to an AGP in both price & performance.

"Greater personal responsibility", he he I know what ya mean on that one. LOL! Looks like I can use that excuse tho'. :blush:

Have a good one & if you get a chance: look at "CPU bottlenecking?" here. Shaft has a P3 1ghz w/Ti4400 & his #'s aren't very impressive at all. He should smoke us both, but he isn't. Any ideas?

I agree on the Hmmm's. Now to figure out why.

I will keep an eye out from improved PCI cards

I think it's a great idea to create a comparison database.

I actually enjoyed doing the benchmarking. I'm not very knowledgeable in this area of tech specs, but I'm glad to be learning.

I would imagine a faster processing chip would enable you to start using the graphics card in a way that starts making use of its potential. Obviously a graphics card can't do it alone, so to speak.

Glad to hear that "MX cards are basically equal (PCI vs AGP) according to them [VisonTek, etc.]" - that is certainly reassuring. I think I will try to get a GF2 MX 420. If/when I do I will certainly report back here with updated benchmarks.

It will be interesting to see how much improvement. At least I sure hope there will be some dang improvement. Now if I could just raise the fps about 25 frames per second I think I'd be fairly contended - for the time being

benchmark

Display Adapter Benchmark
This module performs display adapter benchmark in your system.



Benchmark Result
Random Pixels 333 KPixels/s
Lines 41,333 Lines/s
Circles 11,879 Circles/s
Rectangles 36,146 Rectangles/s
Texts 383,027 Chars/s
FloodFills 790,240 KPixels/s
Draw 27,067 KPixels/s

Benchmark Info
Device Name NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Model 64
Device ID \\.\DISPLAY1
Benchmark Mode 800 x 600 pixels
Color Depth 16 Bit


Last Benchmark Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 12:53 am

It seems that the performance of my setup is not what it could be. I am running a Celeron 1.0GHZ w/256MB 133MHZ SDRAM. Could the monitor affect results? (I have an old, crappy monitor that is about 7 years old)

Newfie,

Hmmm. Looking at Comrade N's card & yours ...

Your systems are very similar: yet your #'s aren't. I'd of thought your 32mb compared to his 16 would give you a slight edge all the way around. I can see my 500 & 66mhz FSB is limiting my card, but you both have 100FSB's. His P3 is better than our Celerons, but you're a tad faster @ 1ghz than his 900mhz. I expected the trade off there would even out the 16mb vs 32mb issue.

I honestly think a little oc'ing could get you 400 random pixels, 100,000+ lines & at least dbl your flood fills. Nothing major, just a 5-8% oc.

That is, naturally, your choice: but if you'd like to do it & want a hand ... I'm willing to share my 'Riva Tuner' experiences w/you.

How does STBC Demo run? Much better!? :grinthumb

I'd be willing to give oc-ing a go, provided it doesn't do any damage. I would appreciate any help you could give. STBC Demo worked so well, I bought the game. I also upgraded my memory from 192MB pc100 to 256MB pc133, and I have ordered a new hdd, 18GB WD @7200rpm to act as master to my slightly older 10.2GB WD @5400rpm, which I will now slave when I get the new drive. Both are ultra 66. I know this system doesn't hold a candle to most of what the guys have here, but it is all I can afford. What do you think?

Goofy

Goofy,

Go to Intel & get the "Application Accelerator" & the upgrades for your i815 board. You'll need to dl the 'Software installation tool' also & run it 1st. It will help your present hdd perform faster. I have aslo seen a Western Digital driver that is supposed to speed it up more. I believe it was at "Windows Update". :grinthumb

'Riva' is available at www.guru3d.com

Enable overclocking: 'Control Panel'> 'Display'> 'Settings'> 'Advanced'> 'TNT 2'> 'Additional Properties'> 'Clock Frequencies': check the 'Allow' box & the 'Apply at startup' box. Detect & restart.

Now open 'Riva'. What is the driver #'s in the bottom box? Click on the bottom (driver) 'customize' button. Click on the 'card' pic (1st one). What are the 'stock' speeds for 'Core' & 'Memory'? I need to know both the driver # & the stock core & memory #'s before we go further.

Overclocking too far can damage the card. I personally haven't experienced it tho'. 'Riva' has a 'safe zone' & *if* one goes too high (I had to test it), power off & on restart it returns to a safe level.

Heat is the enemy. As I stated in an earlier post: I have an case cooling fan blowing across my card. I'd suggest you do the same. Don't use a 'non-magnetic shielded' fan (normal house fan) unless it is placed a few feet away. Until you get a fan: we'll keep the ocing low. Does the card have a fan or heatsinks?

Run FD on the disk drive & then install the Intel progs & run it again. I think you'll see big improvements. Have you run the 'Jedi Knight' demo or the 'Return to Castle Wolfenstein' demo? Excellent graphics on both. My 56k connection made 'em both an all night (me asleep) dl, but they are worth it.

Enjoy,

First of all, I am not running the Intel chipset, as I was quoting specs that were from my previous system. I am now running the VIA Apollo PLE133T AGPset chipset.

As for my vid-card, it has heatsinks only, but I have a case fan that blows directly on it. I am not concerned about too much heat.

I will implement the changes, run another benchmark and post the results here on this thread.

Let you know when it's done.

Goofy:grinthumb

Is that in Win98? I have XP. I can't find TNT2 in Settings>Advanced.

As for the numbers, do you mean this?>64-bit PCI NV5(15) w/32mbSDR memory

Stock speeds are: Core=>125.0, Memory=>148.9

Goofy,

Yes I was referring to 98SE. I was hoping XP was the same. :rolleyes:

That is the #'s we need, but if you have the driver # listed under 'version' in Riva that would be helpful too. 28.32 is a stable driver that has shown good oc capabilities for me. 23.11 was ok & 29.20 ran fine for 6-8 weeks until recently. The 'new' 29.42 doen't seem to oc well on my MX 400.

125 core, hmm. 8% oc will get you 135. Work your way slowly up to that & check w/FD for improvements. 148.9 is 150 & you can prolly get a max of 15-18% there, or 172-177 on the memory. Again: go slow & check each change for improvements using FD.

I've found that Riva oc's the driver quite well & that, in turn, oc's the hardware. Ocing the hardware doesn't oc the driver tho'. Slowly increase the speeds & when FD shows no further increase: stop.

HTH & post your results, plz.

PS: This thread has more views than some of the 'stickies': we're being watched. he he

After setting the core to 127 and the memory to 150, i restarted, tried the benchmark, and Windows went kerplooie! Upon restart, Windows stated that the vid card caused the problem. What gives? I set the card back to defaults, and all's well.:blackeye:

Goofy,

Uhhh.

That isn't even a oc, really. What driver are you running? I'm gonna do an 'oc' search on your card to see what others have gotten out of it.

I'll be back ...

drivers in use...

The driver is: 2.7.2.0
Written 1/15/02

Hi Goofy,

Try the 28.32 driver: www.guru3d.com. I've had real good luck ocing w/ it.

I've searched the web & Aopens site. I've found TNT2 M64 cards w/higher clocks than your card 'stock'! I'm thinking it is a driver based problem & hopefully the 28,32 will allow you an oc on that card. Is that 2.7.2.0 the Aopen driver that came w/the card on CD or did you dl it somewhere?

That driver...

is the Aopen driver that came with the card. I'll give the new driver a go. Although I don't think that the vid-card driver caused the crash...I think that it has something to do with FD. I ran it after restoring the card defaults and it still caused Windows to bomb. I think I will just try the card at around 135 core and about 170 memory and see how it performs. As for FD, I don't want to go through all that crash-crap again.

Thanks for the info, buddy! Let you know how things go.

Goof:giddy:

Heat problems?

Since my last post, I have made some changes to my rig. I removed the second HD which was sandwiched next to the primary HD with no separation(and hence no air circulation). I added two extra system cooling fans and situated them so that one blows directly accross the vid-card, and the other directly on to the HD/memory DIMMS. I'm still having peculiar problems with my system. Upon Windows shutdown, the system powers off automatically without having to depress a power switch. However, when it has been up and running for extended periods of time(5 hours or more), after windows shuts down, the power stays on, and a beeping alarm starts ringing. I am forced to shut down power to the system manually by hitting the switch. When the system has only been running for a short period of time, everything shuts down normally. Is this a heat problem? A friend suggested that my system may have a utility built in (on mobo) that may prevent system shutdown after a certain maximum temp has been exceeded. How would Ibe able to discover if this is the case? If it isn't, what else could be the cause? If I add any more fans, I will be able to keep my beer cold in the darn thing. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Goofer

My Specs:

Gigabyte 6VEML w/Via Apollo PLE 133 chipset
Celeron 1.0GHZ CPU
256 MB PC 133 SDRAM
18.0 GB WD HD@7200rpm
Nvidia Riva TNT2 M64 32MB Video -Driver # 29.42
50X CD-rom
12X10X32X Aopen CD-RW
On-board Audio

How is the airflow through the case? Does it flow up and out? or are all the fans blowing in?

You want the hot air to flow in a natural upward direction while pushing it out of the case. The easiest way to do this is to have a fan(or fans) in the lower part of the front of the case(your case may have a clip there for a fan if it doesn't have a fan there) blowing air into the case. At the back of the case you want your PSU fan to blow out(some of these are installed to blow in you need to reverse it if it is) I would also recommend another fan just below the PSU if you have room, also blowing out.

You also need to make sure that no cables are obstructing airflow in very hot areas, you can either use round cables or try to arange them to an area that is out of the way of airflow.

Another thing, don't blow one fan toward another, this will cause turbulence.

I have two 80mm case fans mounted directly to the bottom of the case blowing air upwards. I have another 80mm mounted at the back of the case directly below the power supply sucking air out. It shouldn't be overheating.