Infamous NSA leaker Edward Snowden says he's "already won"

By Scorpus
Dec 23, 2013
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  1. "Thats odd! Why then is he being called a traitor?"

    Because he is? He took an oath and voluntarily broke it. Hell, look at what he's doing now. He's trying to ***** out his knowledge to the highest bidder to get a nice paycheck from some another government. How can people honestly think he is a hero and not some con artist out to make a buck?

    Side note: I love how people are comparing breaking his oath to release details of Prism to breaking an oath to report rape and other serious offenses. Yeah, that's the totally the same... An accurate comparison would be reporting your manager if you worked in a restaurant and your manager wrote down the names and addresses of every customer that came in, and then filed them away in a filing cabinet forever...
  2. TheBigFatClown

    TheBigFatClown TechSpot Booster Posts: 399   +136

    Let's back up a second and have you answer a question. Do you support the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights, or would you rather we just tear that document up or maybe put a match to it? And please explain where you have found proof that he is demanding money for the information he is leaking.
  3. "Let's back up a second and have you answer a question. Do you support the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights, or would you rather we just tear that document up or maybe put a match to it? And please explain where you have found proof that he is demanding money for the information he is leaking."

    The question isn't whether or not I agree with what he did. It's whether or not Edward Snowden should be classified as a hero for the actions he has taken. He should not. As was previously stated, he voluntarily and willingly broke an agreement that he knew would put him in serious trouble. He did NOT need to do this. He easily could have brought this information to light and remained anonymous. Unnecessarily making yourself a martyr does not make you a hero.

    Also, there are numerous articles about him trying to get into Brazil in exchange for classified information (which is treason by the way, no matter how you paint him in regards to the Prism leak). In my opinion, if he really was a hero he would return to the US and plead his case. After all, if he really is innocent, he should have nothing to fear and be able to present his side of the story in court.
  4. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TechSpot Paladin Posts: 5,765   +1,427

    You people are wishy washy
    • First you want them to show their face to prove credibility, and when they do you say they could have remained anonymous.
    • Second when someone makes a claim, you say where is your documentation. And when they do present documentation you call them a traitor.
    • Thirdly you wanted a man to stand his ground and not run, knowing full well if he had done so you wouldn't have heard anything.
    You people are the cowards for not standing behind him in protecting our rights. I'm ashamed of each and every one of you calling Snowden a traitor and coward. You are effectively renouncing your rights as a US citizen. Snowden is one of the most patriotic citizens. At least he had the balls to stand up, even if it did force him out of the country. You would rather be a movie pirate than help protect your fellow citizen. You would rather steal a movie than help keep governing body in check.
  5. So cliff, is your debate tactic to just blindly make stuff up and put words in people's mouths? Because you're really good at it...

    First off lets look at this drivel:

    • First you want them to show their face to prove credibility, and when they do you say they could have remained anonymous.
      I never said that he needed to show his face to prove credibility, he had official documents, what is there to be gained by showing his face?

    • Second when someone makes a claim, you say where is your documentation. And when they do present documentation you call them a traitor.
      Seriously? Do you even know how this went down? He didn't just say "Hey! I'm Edward Snowden I work at the NSA and they do bad things, let me list them for you!" He released documentation of these wrong-doings (which could have been done anonymously since he stole it in the first place)...

    • Thirdly you wanted a man to stand his ground and not run, knowing full well if he had done so you wouldn't have heard anything.
      Do you know about this thing called the Internet? That's how this information spread in the first place...Once he decided to release the information, it was out there. His actions after that have no impact on the dissemination of the information.
    Now This:

    You people are the cowards for not standing behind him in protecting our rights. I'm ashamed of each and every one of you calling Snowden a traitor and coward. You are effectively renouncing your rights as a US citizen. Snowden is one of the most patriotic citizens. At least he had the balls to stand up, even if it did force him out of the country. You would rather be a movie pirate than help protect your fellow citizen. You would rather steal a movie than help keep governing body in check.

    Never said he was a coward, again, thanks for putting words in my mouth. And be objective here, just because you don't agree with how the incident is playing out doesn't mean that its somehow not treason (especially his offer to Brazil). If I may borrow your tactics of comparing apples and oranges: If someone breaks into your house and tries to harm your family and you shoot them dead, isn't that still homocide?

    Lastly, I have never and will never pirate a movie, I don't even know what point you are trying to make there...
  6. TheBigFatClown

    TheBigFatClown TechSpot Booster Posts: 399   +136

    His side of the story? His side of the story is that our U.S. Government is exploiting every good crisis, namely 9/11/, to violate any and every U.S. constitutional amendment that stands in their way(for good historical reasons) in the name of security. You talk about letting the man come to the U.S. and tell his story but by the words you are using it seems you have already made a judgement. Guilty. Case closed, according to you. Some people say that the NSA revelations have made us less safe. Can that be proven? Is that true? Do criminals stop commiting crimes because there is a slight chance they could get caught? Hardly. This is a very complex issue and one that I would have to study for a long while before jumping to conclusions. But calling Snowden a traitor while at the same time insinuating that he did this all 'for the glory' knowing it would turn his world upside down doesn't seem to me to be a very well thought out and valid conclusion.
  7. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TechSpot Paladin Posts: 5,765   +1,427

    If you don't want to blend in with the other guest, get an account. Better yet don't bother, it wouldn't matter if you had an account or not, you(now I'm pointing a finger) still wouldn't make any sense.
  8. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,397   +830

    Take a deep breath and ask yourself, why does it matter to anyone, (other than you), who you are ashamed of?

    Incidentally, name calling is against the rules. "Cowards" constitutes a derogatory term, does it not?
    No, these are Mr. Cooley's tactics. Invite you to join, then demand that you don't. Because HE, either doesn't want to argue with you, or HE defines you as unworthy.

    I welcome an argument with you, in the colliegial spirit. On this topic, I fear we are in agreement. Hence, no contention. So, feel free to join, regardless who you might run afoul of,by doing so.... ;)

    I bring this over from another thread, but it bears repeating; "the human being hasn't been invented yet, that does anything, without some sense of personal gain". So now, waste the rest of Christmas day, trying to probe the depths of Snowden's mind. And also keep in mind, that they haven't invented the human who can read minds either.

    Now as near as I can tell, this is a thread about morality & motivations, and really has very little to do with technology per se. And it calls very much to question, why certain posters aren't denouncing it as such. I guess it's all in those ulterior motives.

    I like threads that aren't strictly tech based. And I'd like to suggest, that those of you who denounce topics like this, (yet continue to run on in them), make your graceful exit, and go help someone with a broken computer,. (God forbid).


    .
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2013
  9. TheBigFatClown

    TheBigFatClown TechSpot Booster Posts: 399   +136

    Maybe that personal gain is a reduced speed at which the government is stealing our constitutional freedoms one by one....when your on a sinking ship and 1 person does something to try and stop it I don't care what his motives are. In my eyes, at that moment, he is doing a good thing. It's like Charles Bronson shooting a rapist in the act and then somebody screaming afterwards, "Do we want every Tom, ****, and Harry going around shooting vigilantes. Ummm...probably not but on the other hand do we seriously want to crucify the guy who just shot the rapist? I would say show some leniency.

    P.S. Why can't I say **** if it's being used in the context of somebodys name? I feel like this website is violating my 1st amendment rights of freedom of speech.
  10. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,397   +830

    The foregoing syntax is a disaster. (Hint, "vigilantes", is not the correct object).
    Actually, I'm a big fan of, "the end justifies the means", and I wouldn't even blink, if I saw either Chuck, (Bronson or Norris), gun down, or kick the teeth right out of some evildoers behind.

    No, your civil rights aren't being violated, what's his name's are.:p

    Taking that into consideration though, our fearless leader did drop the "F-Bomb", at least twice, and in a front page article no less. (I believe you're allowed to drop it only once as an interjection, to retain "PG-13 rating, in a feature film).

    All things being considered, I think Snowden has seen Russian women a la carte online, and this was the shortest route to get next to them.
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2013
  11. I'm tired of these clowns. They are giving real "whistleblowers" a bad name. What Snowden has done is espionage, pure and simple. He can lie all he wants, but the facts are apparent. He took a job with the sole intention of stealing information and fleeing the country. Yeah what a hero.

    Snowden's supporters, much like Ron Paul's, may be loud on the Internet but know for a fact most Americans now view him as a coward and traitor. If he had stayed perhaps we could have a "discussion" about these surveillance programs, but now, we won't and it's his own fault. He will end up just like Assange, cornered and indignant, revealed for the rats they are.
     
  12. TheBigFatClown

    TheBigFatClown TechSpot Booster Posts: 399   +136

    Guilty as charged. My grammar sucks but I take it you still got the point. Actually, my grammar does not necessarily suck. I just didn't proof read my work.

    Your making some whacked out accusations my friend. It doesn't help advance the conversation when they are so blatantly wacky. I feel myself having no desire to respond to this post. "Most" americans are "comfortably numb" and probably have no opinion at all of Snowden as long as they receive their food stamps each month. To say that the "majority of Americans" are outraged at Snowdens actions is true comedy.
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2013
  13. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,397   +830

    When you come right down to it, the MSA can't possibly read all the data thy've gathered. So, any individual really has nothing to fear, unless their phone calls and emails discuss building a dirty bomb or such.

    Most of what Snowden has done, is increase friction between allied countries, the same as Assange, who's "revelations", in large part, amounted of a bunch of crap, backbiting, and gossip that were more suited for, "Access Hollywood".

    Well, that's because the internet if full of, "squeaky wheels", who demand to be oiled first. Most, I suspect, they're pretty much oiling one another's egos, and precious little more. than that.

    Many of us labor under the false assumption, that because you put something on the internet, that it matters to everyone that reads it. And then there's that "X" at the upper corner of an web page, that might as well read, "you're delusional"...
  14. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,397   +830

    Actually, one thing that it did bring to mind, is a line from the Jefferson Airplane's, "White Rabbit". Um, which would be, "and the white knight is talking backwards".....:D

    That said, granted, "Comfortably Numb", is another tried and true classic.
  15. I’ve lost any sympathy for him. When someone has hard drives (or thumb drives) full of classified American secrets in their possession in China and Russia, you can count on the fact that the drives have now been copied. I’m glad we now know more about the extent of the NSA spying, but carrying all this classified information to communist countries makes him the same as any other traitorous spy.
  16. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,397   +830

    All this calls to mind to me is, there's no such thing as, "Glasnost". Since if there were, the KGB would have killed him for us...:oops:
  17. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TechSpot Paladin Posts: 5,765   +1,427

    Seriously what is there worth hiding? If you want me to stand in line and shout "Traitor", you will have to prove to me first that there was harm done. Otherwise I'm gonna call it news that would have never been allowed to broadcast.
  18. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,397   +830

    Well first, there's no secret too frivolous or too trivial for someone like Julian Assange with which inflate his notoriety, that's a given. It seems to me, if Snowden has no secrets worth revealing, then why is Snowden a hero or traitor? That would make him just a simple publicity hound.

    Whether it's true or not, (and I'm going to assume it is, if only for the sake of this discussion), we are daily assaulted with stories of the Chinese attempting to hack our systems. Be it in the civilian sector, as industrial espionage, or military / government servers, as cyber warfare. Accordingly, if there is as has been suggested, "nothing to reveal" by Snowden, then why is Snowden revealing what isn't there? Why all the furor? But most of all. why won't the KBG simply do away with him for us, in the spirit of "Glasnost". In short, if he's got something that's of no use or interest to the Russian government, why let him stay? Are they coddling him from the wrath of the mean, nasty, totalitarian US government? Or does the information he has stolen, "give aid and comfort to the enemy". (Which by the way, is a textbook definition of, "treason").

    Seriously.
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2013
     
  19. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,397   +830

    Right. There's no KGB, Putin isn't a dictator, and Santa Claus is a real person. Not to mention the, "Russians are are partners in peace".

    Th Russian let this douche stay there. That speaks volumes about what they feel they have to gain from it. And yeah, even if it's for spite. The last time it was Gary Powers they captured, and launched a publicity blitz about that. So, they're entirely self motivated, then as well as now. As for the "KBC", they likely rebranded that operation,. They certainly haven't given up those tactics.
    I really enjoy being talked down to, by every windbag, jacka**, and "troll" that comes blasting through here, believing they are the alpha and omega of right thinking. And you sir, are the tri-fecta of those, "fine qualities".

    Really, what level of pompous nirvana do need to achieve to suddenly declare yourself right, and the rest of the world wrong? I suppose you at least need to be delusional if you think people will let you get away with it

    Now run along and take a nap. You've probably worn your little fingeys to the bone, tapping out all that righteous indignation.
  20. Lawls, look here. My little fingers are ever so tired. You are the same as me and all the other trolls. Do as I say not as I do. As in you have been trolling these comments. Btw, now that is censorship. Completely removing a comment that was directed at everyone. Oh, I enrage you much? btw, I am pretty sure I was right on most accounts. Besides the KBG, even that I am pretty sure it doesn't exist as it did (if it does). Then again they might hold the right to have it. We have the NSA buddy. Either way, I enjoy reading your hypocritical responses. Well the one to mine that is.
  21. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,397   +830

    No, I only replied to the instances the were relative to my feelings.. You call to mind some ancient saw like "the pot calls the kettle black", or, "I takes one to know one". (With respect to trolling).

    I'm not denying the NSA, nor should you deny the KGB. To one degree or another, they are balancing forces.

    Whether Snowden is right or wrong for stealing or revealing our country's secrets, he has played into a propaganda war against the US, jeopardized our safety, and given other nations insight into our security measures, without any viable return. In other words, if he would have revealed other country's civilian spying practices at the same time, the balance of forces would remain equal. So, it's naive on mostly everybody's part here, to think other nations are NOT involved in the same types of information gathering as our NSA.

    I would be very surprised, if there weren't a trade of information going on, between members of mutual defense obligated armed forces such as NATO anyway. Since no one else has had an attack on the scale of 9-11.

    Prima facia, it would seem that world relations between the East and West have improved. To the extent of business relations, perhaps they have .And there you have the old, often stated paradox in play, "it's not the politicians running countries, it's the people pulling their purse strings". And so, the "war" rages on, this time with nations trying to subdue other nations by economic means.

    With that said, the reason the Soviet Union dissolved, is rebellion on the part of the Czech people. Erstwhile, the Russians were running out of money simply from spending it on military purposes. People here would like to believe it was Regan's call to "tear down the wall, Mr. Gorbachev", but it wasn't.

    Having the US's intelligence gathering secrets exposed, was a bold face diversion, and boon, to other country's propaganda machines and spy networks. Even nations that are ostensibly our "friends, (such as Israel), have been caught prying into our secret affairs.

    Why deify Snowden for balancing the scales in the favor of other nations, when loyalty, (as should charity), begins at home.

    I suppose I am guilty as charged of "trolling", since I don't have a mobile phone, and accordingly have no jeopardy, at least on that front.

    But in truth, the NSA can only wade through so much irrelevant bull s***, and still leave work at 5:00 PM.

    These are tough times. If you're inclined to commit an act of terrorism, I suggest you don't blab about it on a "smart phone", 'cause it's not very, "smart".

    So, there aren't any right parties in this whole fiasco.

    Snowden is wrong for exposing secrets.

    The NSA is wrong for perhaps being too zealous in its information gathering.

    The public is wrong for simply being overtly hysterical about the issue.

    Keep this in mind, once power is attained, those who wield it, are very reluctant to let go of it. I suspect that after this furor subsides, the status quo will remain.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
  22. Yeah, I'd say never being able to see your family or friends again, and being considered as one of the biggest Traitors in US history is being a WINNER.

    NOT!

    Merry Deathmas, Mr Snowden.
  23. Alright, everyone, just calm down.. you know it's not worth spending your time respond to that troll's comments, right? that guest would say different if he experienced the same situation as Snowden..

    -John Doe-
  24. TheBigFatClown

    TheBigFatClown TechSpot Booster Posts: 399   +136

    Snowden has jeopardized our safe
    Just out of pure curiosity, please explain the reasons for your outrage and your lust for Snowdens blood so that I can potentially understand the source of this outrage. Yes, I would like to understand. I am more than willing to be persuaded that I should go around foaming at the mouth shouting, "Death to Snowden!!! Death to Snowden!!!".

    If your going to make statements like, "We are less safe now because of Snowden" please prove that. Please tell me that criminals stop taking risks when the odds of getting caught go up. Last time I checked, people were still robbing banks and committing other various crimes in spite of the fact that there is a ****ng spycam on 'every street corner you see'. Oh, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, la la la la la.....
  25. Nunja Business

    Nunja Business Newcomer, in training

    Snowden is a fame ***** looking to write his name in the history books in some way.
    He is no different from your average thrill killing teenagers or Kardashian.


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